Not that insane. Carnival and amusement park rides spin you around faster than the viper in that video clip. The insane g forces come from the intense acceleration onto a new vector. You know, when the inertial dampeners fail.

Remember we're discussin speeds that make Mach 3 seem putsy though...

This does provide an opportunity for me to comment on a facepalm scene I just watched in the clone wars though.

Anakin and Rex need to stop a droid shuttle and so they space walk to its landing bay and then use grapple guns to snag it as it is launching and get dragged behind it for a little bit while it accelerates.

While this is going on, the droid pilots comment on feeling some drag. In space.

Somewhat amusingly, if the designers wanted to make the game more realistic, every ship should probably be able to pull every K-turn, and the longer ones would be green as there would be less strain involved in taking longer to accelerate in the opposite direction.

Yeah... Space Flight is wonky. That's about where these discussions always wind up.

So, back to the K-Turn...

Any reason why it couldn't be a split-s instead of an Immelmann? I suppose it doesn't really matter since the orientation would end up being the same in space, i.e. 180 degree change of facing.

And to jump on the band wagon, I think the Falcon's maneuver in ESB is what a Koiogran would look like.

If you want science in your science fiction, you can find it. Just not so much in Star Wars

I'm just arguing for the sake of being right cos I'm an arse that way, I agree it's nowt to do with Star Wars. I reckon it's prolly the way the Falcon does it, but I had assumed the name was a reference to somebody/something in the EU, and that it was described in a book or something.

I guess they can't call it an Immelman, because that maneuver was named after Max Immelman, and as we know Star Wars took place a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away - from Max Immelman. My concept of it is the half loop that the Falcon does. Looks about right.

I think you guys almost have this figured out. Maybe next we can dissect the scientific ramifications of the force, or perhaps even laser swords.

Lightsabers make stupidly small amounts of sense.

The Force is magic. I can show you some places where people have analyzed the **** out of fictional magic systems if you want. But the Force doesn't lend itself to analysis the way Mistborn or Sympathy or Soulfire do.

This does provide an opportunity for me to comment on a facepalm scene I just watched in the clone wars though.

Anakin and Rex need to stop a droid shuttle and so they space walk to its landing bay and then use grapple guns to snag it as it is launching and get dragged behind it for a little bit while it accelerates.

While this is going on, the droid pilots comment on feeling some drag. In space.

I just watched that episode! They tried to cover their tracks by saying something like "that's odd, you don't usually feel drag in space." Should've just left it out. Especially because the droid pilots were STILL surprised someone boarded the ship after a pretty intense firefight just outside the cockpit...

I think a k turn looks like this: Place your range ruler at the front of your ship, pick up your mini, and move the front end to the far end of the range ruler, flipping 180 degrees but moving forward, don't forget to stress.... Cheeky

Lightsabers make stupidly small amounts of sense.

Well, now that we have photonic molecules the rest is engineering.

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Yep it's called centrifugal force and it's basic physics. Star Wars universe or not, it's still going to be there.

If every ship has such effective inertial dampeners, why do we see the pilots bobbing around in their cockpits during their trench runs in ANH? You've got to remember that inertial dampeners are just a plot fix to explain away why spacefarers don't get turned into a red splat when their ships go into hyperspace. Star Trek has been using the concept for decades, but you still saw the bridge crew getting thrown around all the time.

In Star Wars it's because the pilots dial them down slightly so they get some sense of motion to help them pilot. Porkins whacked his up to max and thus didn't realise he wasn't pulling up enough.

If you go to 0:58 on this video, that's how I imagine a K-turn to look like.

Yep it's called centrifugal force and it's basic physics. Star Wars universe or not, it's still going to be there.

If every ship has such effective inertial dampeners, why do we see the pilots bobbing around in their cockpits during their trench runs in ANH? You've got to remember that inertial dampeners are just a plot fix to explain away why spacefarers don't get turned into a red splat when their ships go into hyperspace. Star Trek has been using the concept for decades, but you still saw the bridge crew getting thrown around all the time.

In Star Wars it's because the pilots dial them down slightly so they get some sense of motion to help them pilot. Porkins whacked his up to max and thus didn't realise he wasn't pulling up enough.

Are you sure it wasn't because he got his ass shot out from under him?

Now, bear with me on this... this could be too much for you to handle! Ready?

"The K-Turn is what ever you want it to be."

There, I said it. People can guess, disagree and generally discuss to their hearts content, but ultimately its what ever you want it to be. It uses as much or as little real world physics as you like. Without the game designers coming on here and telling us what they meant for it to be we will never know for sure.

If the top speeds on Wookiepedia are in Atmo I'm pretty sure X-wings could ignite atmospheres(depending on how energy shields and air resistance work in combination...) and create hurricanes... I don't quite buy that.

Unless they changed the artical to show top speed with shields or atmo mods there no way any of those ships will cause atmo to ignite since most cant go mach 3.

How do XWing's have top speeds? Is that assuming the set off with a full tank and accelerate until the point of no return (presumably a quarter of their fuel), or is it if they accelerate until their fuel has run out? Or do Star Wars engines not work that way?

Again - this is science FICTION.... We've gone over this before. Why do they need wings in space? How do tie fighters and lasters make sound in a vacuum... This is supposed to model dog fighting not what space combat would actually look like. Honestly, you think people would bother to all orient themselves the same way to look pretty?

Well, I would!

If the top speeds on Wookiepedia are in Atmo I'm pretty sure X-wings could ignite atmospheres(depending on how energy shields and air resistance work in combination...) and create hurricanes... I don't quite buy that.

Unless they changed the artical to show top speed with shields or atmo mods there no way any of those ships will cause atmo to ignite since most cant go mach 3.

How do XWing's have top speeds? Is that assuming the set off with a full tank and accelerate until the point of no return (presumably a quarter of their fuel), or is it if they accelerate until their fuel has run out? Or do Star Wars engines not work that way?

The top speed listed is for flight in atmo with no shields and no enhancing physical parts for flight in atmo. I will explane more in another post.

How do XWing's have top speeds? Is that assuming the set off with a full tank and accelerate until the point of no return (presumably a quarter of their fuel), or is it if they accelerate until their fuel has run out? Or do Star Wars engines not work that way?

The top speed listed is for flight in atmo with no shields and no enhancing physical parts for flight in atmo. I will explane more in another post.

You are going to jump out of a plane in another post? Can't wait to see that!

P

Again - this is science FICTION.... We've gone over this before. Why do they need wings in space? How do tie fighters and lasters make sound in a vacuum... This is supposed to model dog fighting not what space combat would actually look like. Honestly, you think people would bother to all orient themselves the same way to look pretty?

Actully those are s-foils, that's a real type of body that can cause lift but is not shaped like a traditional

Wing.

It has an s-foil that also looks like wings because it is a trans-atmo craft. We got new sIips that are built that way as well as the old space shuttle. The cool thing is in sw its like our world X Over 9000 when it comes to companies and there ideas how craft should be built. Tie just use antigravity fields with there pilots instead of what the rest of the galaxy uses for there pilots.

Your right about sound however it was added to the lore that they have an advanced audio computer system that produced the correct sound and imitates the dop effect with those sounds to give pilots and crew better awarness. That is something we need to try and develop.

As far as space combat it can look and be anyway we develop it. There is logic however to what was shown in sw. If you have a group of fighters attack from one angle it makes it so only a set amount of aa can attack the fighters. If you have them spread out and attack from multiple angles then they will be attacked by a much greater ammount of aa that is much less split. We also need to develop oare spacecombat capabilities tobe like sw. They have the capabilitie to change the way they travel and fight in vqac. Other scifi only travel like they are in vac or atmo but can't change like sw.

If the top speeds on Wookiepedia are in Atmo I'm pretty sure X-wings could ignite atmospheres(depending on how energy shields and air resistance work in combination...) and create hurricanes... I don't quite buy that.

Unless they changed the artical to show top speed with shields or atmo mods there no way any of those ships will cause atmo to ignite since most cant go mach 3.

In what universe. They acclerate in the hundreds of g's. That's pretty atmo scorchingly fast.

They don't acclerate anywhere near that fast in atmo. Its says, or it should, by the accleration number that that is for space. Besides the body probably not surviving that kind of stress sw equv to the ffa would prob not allow ships to fly at full accleration unles its a very good reason.

And as far as max accleration goes that's only in relation to the engine itself and how much energy it is projecting.

I just remembered the short lived, underrated series Space: Above and Beyond, which had, amongst others this example of a dogfight in space

I know SW fighters have no maneuvring thrusters, but still.

And how does the ability to spin in space relate to the K-turn? The ships don't stop moving during a K-turn, They spin while moving (in the manuever this started from) and that does create g-forces. There is no relevence to the spinning in place you're discussin because there is still motion involved creating some extreme g-forces(that again, the pilot will not get any significant percentage of because space magic tech.)

Here's another point of confusion. You say "spinning while moving" when i think you mean "spinning while thrusting." In that case, yes, you'll generate all sorts of weird g-forces. If you are just coasting in space and you spin 180, then the only g-forces is the centrifugal "force" which isn't any different than a similar carnival ride. It doesn't matter how fast you are moving along your linear velocity vector. It WOULD matter if you left your rear facing thrusters on, but then you're not just spinning, you're turning. Some of the confusion might come from thinking in atmo, where, due to lift and drag, planes can't spin without turning.