Well if they have made it so that an average person can't pick up a targeted set of cards and play well enough to enjoy the game without breaking the bank, that's unfortunate.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I built a 'budget' Standard deck for FNM last year that cost right around $100 (before I added non-basic lands), and it was plenty fun for my purposes. You might be able to make do with even less than that, but it won't be remotely competitive. Not with what you could make out of a single booster box, anyways.

Magic is a "better value"? Really? How many of those $4 packs to you have to buy to make a deck? How many of those $4 packs do you have to buy to make a GOOD deck? At least in X-Wing you know what you're buying, unlike the blind-buy money-sucking models of the "better values" you mention. Please go back to playing the "better value" games and see how your pocketbook likes it.

Did the OP really go there? Magic? OP can EABOD for all I care. Magic has no value whatsoever, and silly baseball cards for nerds certainly don't have the same aesthetic value as actual models. Even as an Imperial player, I plan on buying the large Rebel ships just to have on my desk at work. Doesn't have the same curb appeal if I had a bunch of naff @ssed MtG cards in my cube.

I suggest the OP respectfully return the CCG minoc cave from whence he came.

Such venom from people who aren't directly affected one way or the other by the situation. Not sure what EABOD stands for and really not interested in spending more time thinking about it than it takes me to finish this sentence.

Everyone has an opinion on this subject. I am entitled to mine and you are entitled to yours. i've said what I came to say, I'll be moving on now. Not to a *Mynock* cave, mind you, but at least I know how to spell Mynock.

You can't expect to open a can of whine and not face the consequences, Boris. The only games that aren't subject to inflationary costs and power creep are checkers and chess...and the ****ing minocs ate all the checker boards.

Little did I know that as a full time student that doesn't have time for a job and living on grants and loans due to the clinical hours required for my classes, am now a rich man cause I can afford to pay for this game (*gasp* I can budget and do an odd side job every now and again). The more you know.

Well if they have made it so that an average person can't pick up a targeted set of cards and play well enough to enjoy the game without breaking the bank, that's unfortunate.

$40 is "breaking the bank"? Seriously?

. . .

Okay, now I wonder just what planet you hail from where $40 is a lot of money for a miniatures game. Heck, even in your example of Heroclix that's only three boxes at most, for two ships with plenty of potential for combat. Even if you don't use the Transport, there's still a) plenty of use for the non-Huge upgrades and b) lots of potential for resale in the secondary market. Or have you forgotten that there's a secondary market for X-wing miniatures?

There's this new thing called "saving" too. Many people do it. Perhaps you should look into it.

Such venom from people who aren't directly affected one way or the other by the situation. Not sure what EABOD stands for and really not interested in spending more time thinking about it than it takes me to finish this sentence.

Everyone has an opinion on this subject. I am entitled to mine and you are entitled to yours. i've said what I came to say, I'll be moving on now. Not to a *Mynock* cave, mind you, but at least I know how to spell Mynock.

EABOD stands for "eat a bag of d***s", you pretentious little snot.

Honestly how is this game super expensive? Lets see there was this mini game I was going to get into called Hordes. You had to first buy your starter set (40-50 bucks). Then buy paints to paint them. Then buy the frakin' tokens so that when you used special powers and such you could actually mark them (cuz you can't have them included). Then if you wanted the full rules you had to buy the rule book.... And you think this game is expensive?

How is paying 15 bucks for an expansion that is fully painted and comes with everything you need super expensive? Even at 60 for the transport (I got it for 45 from my local store) it's still a better value then what a lot of other games charge. At least I don't have to buy my tokens separate.

You could buy a box of Magic for roughly the same price, sell the unwanted rares and uncommons to recoup half the price of the box (2/3 is more typical if you sell ALL your foils), and then use the rest as the base for 2-3 solid deckbuilds. From there, it's just a matter of picking up singles to round out the decks you want to play.

No. Just no. This is not possible to do with Magic, at all, ever. I entirely disagree with your claim.

X-Wing is orders of magnitude cheaper to own and play than Magic is and ever will be.

Well, disagree all you want but I've done it. Multiple times. The notion that one must buy every high money card out there to do well is myth.

I haven't played Magic in 5 years, but when I did play I frequently won with decks that cost less than $20. The lack of big money cards played to my advantage more times than not.

Just like Magic, you don't have to buy every "high money" x-wing to compete. There are plenty of lists you can build without those x-wings.

I have a friend that's built a drafting cube out of actual cards, including the power 9 or whatever they call the old mox's and lotus these days. He's spent far more in magic than I ever will in x-wing.

Your analogy is terrible.

Jesus Christ guys, stop being such t***s! The man's frustrated and wanted to vent, no need for all the personal attacks.

Yes, he's entitled to his opinion and you're all entitled to disagree with him, but that doesn't stop you being an arse when you make an arsey reply.

My responses are to the Bold Underlined Italic parts in the same order, first to last.

Make no mistake: this is a result of your own doing when you made this a rich man's product with your high-entry, low-return price point.

$15 for 1 ship vs. $15 for a package of miniatures in another game system like HeroClix or the previous Star Wars Miniatures game is just outlandish on its own ,

it will never generate enough of a following because it is too expensive for the casual player who strolls on by the boosters to pick up a $4 of Magic or $12 box of HeroClix, where they will get far more for their buck and have a stronger resell value when they dump out.

I do not believe that the price point of a single expansion for X-Wing is worse "bang for buck" than Heroclix, in fact I believe it is the opposite. Sure you get 5 Figures with cards in Heroclix but you may not even want or need the figures you pull from a booster. You may not like that you got 3 copies of a Common figure you had no desire to get and missed out on any of the ones you were looking for. Heroclix is random and you can end up feeling like you were robbed of your money when you pull no figures you were looking forward to getting.

In contrast, X-Wing players know exactly what they are getting when they purchase an expansion. Beforehand they have already seen the ship model, the Upgrades and sometimes even the dial. They've been previewed on what the ship can do and often times the Upgrades included will also pair well with their other expansions.

As far as resell value goes, Heroclix doesn't have the best. Unless you pull extremely good in the few boosters you purchase, you would have to buy anywhere from a brick (around $100+) to a case (around $200+) of booster packs to hopefully pull the figures that are worth some money. Then you would immediately have to go resell those on the secondary market before their price drops. Even then, your mileage may vary. Certain sets of Heroclix have limited manufacturing or are so widely anticipated and expected that their prices will skyrocket on the secondary markets, whereas almost all other sets are cheap and you don't see much of a return in value.

Why cry and whine about something that nobody forces you to buy?

And I can't believe you brought up Heroclix in a thread designed to complain about prices. It's FAR more expensive to buy blind boxes and pray you get that ultra-rare ship when you can tailor your fleet to your needs with the clear bubbles that FFG packages their minis in. In fact, complaining about price when X-wing is one of the cheapest miniatures games in existence is really, really shallow.

Comments run the gamut of my expectations regarding responses. I could contradict successfully almost every QQ accusation, but suffice to say I understand I am not being forced to buy this product. Nor is anyone else. What I am, what everyone is, being forced to do - particularly those of us who only want to add an element to the aspect of the game we enjoy the way we're used to playing it - is to scrounge up FOUR TIMES the amount of what I would normally pay (in truth, more like 5-6 times what I would pay when considering that most online venues sell the small ships for about $10) just to have 1/2 of what I want.

Whether I ever get the ship or not isn't the point, nor is whether the product is appropriately priced. What is relevant is the fact that the package is produced in a way that IMO is a bit underhanded, probably because it wasn't expected to sell without including something else - as opposed to the Tantive IV, which will be a great collector's display piece.

Regarding the Magic and HeroClix comparisons, if you are actually buying "blind boosters" off the shelf hoping to build decks or teams, then yeah it takes a bit. But those games have a secondary value those of you who attacked that part of the OP seem to be ignoring. Try pricing your collection of X-Wing for resell and convince yourself you can get everything back that you spent on it.

In the final analysis, it comes down to what is fun and what is practical. This didn't "become" a rich man's game - it started out that way. You know what you get but it'll never be worth more than what you paid for it.

So you are claiming that we are all forced to pay more for the Rebel Transport to get that sweet alternate paint X-Wing, some pilots and Upgrades other than the awesomeness that is the Transport itself. Tell me... When Wave 2 was out and players found the amazing combo of Interceptors with Push the Limit, don't you think the same was probably thought back then? "Oh man, I want 4-5 Interceptors and I need that many copies for tournaments? Guess I need to buy 4-5 A-Wings."

Why is it that only now you are voicing your concerns over the fact that you have to pay for something you don't want just for some Pilots and Upgrades that are easily Proxied at home? What makes this any different than back when Wave 2 had just come out?

You claim that the point is not that the expansion is inappropriately priced here and yet in most of your posts you state that you are upset you have to pay this amount of money for it. Seems a bit contradictory.

Acting like Heroclix secondary markets will consistently net you back the amount of money you spent is a bit of a joke honestly. Heroclix and X-Wing are both collectible games, they are just distributed in a different way. Heroclix has blind boosters and a rarity system that makes only certain figures desirable and therefore worth something. All small X-Wing expansions are priced at the same amount and therefore there isn't a large difference in the secondary market on the small expansions. Collectible games most often do not net you a return profit, you almost always will lose money trying to resell it all.

Now here at the end of your post you contradict what you previously said. You claimed that you can net back what you bought in Heroclix and other collectible games and scoffed at the idea of others being able to do the same with X-Wing. Then here at the end of your post you state that "you know what you get but it'll never be worth more than you paid for it."

That is pretty much the truth of collectible games. You will not always net a profit trying to sell what you bought. It depreciates in value on secondary markets because you have owned/used it.

Also, X-Wing is one of the best priced expandable games I have gotten into. With 2 Core Sets and 9 Expansions I feel like I have such a variety of squads I can build with this game, each feeling just as strong/viable as the next, in different ways of course.

X-Wing, including the Rebel Transport, is dirt cheap compared to lots of other board and miniature games.

Yup...a kid who knows how to get out there and cut a few lawns, or wash a few cars can buy an entire fleet in a few months...A-Men!

Good for that kid, who by the way also doesn't worry about things, like mortgage, utilities, rent, food, and debt. Seriously.

I found this pretty funny... of course a kid doesn't have the financial responsibilities of an adult, lets not be silly. i do think you missed the point of what Joe wrote, if a kid in today's age can put money aside for something like a table top game that should tell you that said game is fairly reasonable.

I'm going to add a bit about my nephew who is 11 years old and plays. I bought him the starter as a Christmas gift and he has bought each and every one of his other minis. He has almost 1 of every ship and is currently saving for a transport. He walks dogs, cleans neighbors yards and has even cleaned out a few garages. Now knowing how most children "manage" their money especially 11 year old kids, again I say and stress this goes a long way to show how reasonable this game is.

One last thing, this same nephew thought heroclix was too expensive because of the blind boosters....

Heroclix is too expensive.

Example: I played Heroclix for a year. I went to tournaments at the LGS, I played games with friends, I bought stuff online and through that LGS. Most Event tournaments required me to buy $20 in Heroclix. In 1 year I had spent over $1,000 USD on Heroclix. Not once did I ever feel truly satisfied with my purchases, like I had gotten enough or like I had pulled enough good figures. I'll admit I was a bit addicted to buying them, checking prices at various websites online daily and all that. When my friends quit playing, I had decided to do so as well, as I mainly went to tournaments because my friends were there and there was no point in keeping my more expensive miniatures since I had no one to play it with anymore. I rounded up my most expensive pieces and sold them individually. I might have made back a quarter of what I bought into the game. I'm typing this now, thinking about the massive collection of 400+ figures I have sitting behind me in tackle boxes and on my dresser, the figures I will not be able to get rid of because they are worth close to nothing in the secondary market and nobody is interested in having a 5th "generic common figure".

It was a fun game when I played it, I still keep up to date with the rules changes and all that. I just can't justify spending the money on it when the only people I would play against are people I do not know, at a comic shop 40 minutes away from me.

Heroclix is too expensive.

Example: I played Heroclix for a year. I went to tournaments at the LGS, I played games with friends, I bought stuff online and through that LGS. Most Event tournaments required me to buy $20 in Heroclix. In 1 year I had spent over $1,000 USD on Heroclix. Not once did I ever feel truly satisfied with my purchases, like I had gotten enough or like I had pulled enough good figures. I'll admit I was a bit addicted to buying them, checking prices at various websites online daily and all that. When my friends quit playing, I had decided to do so as well, as I mainly went to tournaments because my friends were there and there was no point in keeping my more expensive miniatures since I had no one to play it with anymore. I rounded up my most expensive pieces and sold them individually. I might have made back a quarter of what I bought into the game. I'm typing this now, thinking about the massive collection of 400+ figures I have sitting behind me in tackle boxes and on my dresser, the figures I will not be able to get rid of because they are worth close to nothing in the secondary market and nobody is interested in having a 5th "generic common figure".

It was a fun game when I played it, I still keep up to date with the rules changes and all that. I just can't justify spending the money on it when the only people I would play against are people I do not know, at a comic shop 40 minutes away from me.

I never really got into that game however, I probably spent close to the same amount of money on the old Star Wars Miniatures game. I can't remember how many times I thought to myself, "Great another rare mini that I have no idea who you are, and I could care less about you." The only exciting blind box I ever got is one time I got two rares in the same box, but the universe fixed itself when I got a box shortly after that that didn't have a rare in it.

X-Wing, including the Rebel Transport, is dirt cheap compared to lots of other board and miniature games.

Yup...a kid who knows how to get out there and cut a few lawns, or wash a few cars can buy an entire fleet in a few months...A-Men!

Good for that kid, who by the way also doesn't worry about things, like mortgage, utilities, rent, food, and debt. Seriously.

I found this pretty funny... of course a kid doesn't have the financial responsibilities of an adult, lets not be silly. i do think you missed the point of what Joe wrote, if a kid in today's age can put money aside for something like a table top game that should tell you that said game is fairly reasonable.

I'm going to add a bit about my nephew who is 11 years old and plays. I bought him the starter as a Christmas gift and he has bought each and every one of his other minis. He has almost 1 of every ship and is currently saving for a transport. He walks dogs, cleans neighbors yards and has even cleaned out a few garages. Now knowing how most children "manage" their money especially 11 year old kids, again I say and stress this goes a long way to show how reasonable this game is.

One last thing, this same nephew thought heroclix was too expensive because of the blind boosters....

One of every ships isn't enough, you need* at least three! I've sport £609 on X-Wing so far (when my Transport arrives) ($1032), pretty sure I couldn't afford that as a kid, or a student.

*alright, obviously you don't technically need them, not like you'd die without them, but come one, look at them! NEED!

Jesus Christ guys, stop being such t***s! The man's frustrated and wanted to vent, no need for all the personal attacks.

Yes, he's entitled to his opinion and you're all entitled to disagree with him, but that doesn't stop you being an arse when you make an arsey reply.

There's being wrong, and then there's insisting everyone who doesn't agree with you has collective ignorance.

When a reasonable, honest person is confronted with evidence that contradicts what he is saying, they usually back down and concede that they were wrong. When an unreasonable, dishonest person is confronted with similar evidence, they usually batten down the hatches and go to war to defend their position against all logic and reason.

Being frustrated and venting about something that is worth venting about is also something completely different from what he was doing. He's basically spouting a lot of BS about X-wing, Magic the Gathering, Heroclix, secondary markets, collectible miniatures, and all kinds of subjects and basically saying that everyone who doesn't buy his baloney is ignorant and doesn't know what they're talking about.

I don't know where you're from, but here in Kansas we don't take too kindly to being called "stupid" for not buying a load of BS.

Jesus Christ guys, stop being such t***s! The man's frustrated and wanted to vent, no need for all the personal attacks.

Yes, he's entitled to his opinion and you're all entitled to disagree with him, but that doesn't stop you being an arse when you make an arsey reply.

There's being wrong, and then there's insisting everyone who doesn't agree with you has collective ignorance.

When a reasonable, honest person is confronted with evidence that contradicts what he is saying, they usually back down and concede that they were wrong. When an unreasonable, dishonest person is confronted with similar evidence, they usually batten down the hatches and go to war to defend their position against all logic and reason.

Being frustrated and venting about something that is worth venting about is also something completely different from what he was doing. He's basically spouting a lot of BS about X-wing, Magic the Gathering, Heroclix, secondary markets, collectible miniatures, and all kinds of subjects and basically saying that everyone who doesn't buy his baloney is ignorant and doesn't know what they're talking about.

I don't know where you're from, but here in Kansas we don't take too kindly to being called "stupid" for not buying a load of BS.

I suspect I may have missed some of the OP's later posts (this thread has got a bit long), if he got all obnoxious then fair enough.

Where I come from we all just try to get along*.

*that's a lie, we don't.

Yeah, I can't say I blame you if you only saw the first two or three of his posts. But if you read further you'll detect a hint of smugness and perhaps a twinge of self-righteousness which is, indeed, obnoxious.

I try to get along with people, but there comes a point where it gets annoying and infuriating, and that point is usually around when someone implies, "Look, I don't care what your evidence and logic says. You should stop believing your lying eyes and experience and take my word at face value."

Honestly I think we'd all be best served by ceasing this topic. Points have been made and reinforced, but now things have gotten heated, and may start crossing lines of civility. Best to let it go, before reaching that point.

Why not ask people who got two transports if they'd be willing to part with the X-wing stuff, instead of sharing your complaint letter?

I'm not sure if I'll get a transport, but if I do I'll be more than happy to hand over the X-Wing. Should I go crazy and get more than one transport, I still won't want the X-Wing.

If anybody would like to be considered for an X-Wing giveaway, complete with all associated cards and tokens, all they would have to do is ask and I'll GIVE it to them. Yes GIVE, with no charge.

Honestly I think we'd all be best served by ceasing this topic. Points have been made and reinforced, but now things have gotten heated, and may start crossing lines of civility. Best to let it go, before reaching that point.

You can tell I haven't read the topic. Because I'm still happy. I just answered the first reply.

I agree.

Honestly I think we'd all be best served by ceasing this topic. Points have been made and reinforced, but now things have gotten heated, and may start crossing lines of civility. Best to let it go, before reaching that point.

That's probably for the best. The OP is clearly beyond reason, so any further discussion would be fruitless.

Well, I'm not interested in playing with these gigantic ships either, but I did want to acquire the X-wing components. Like many of you admitted, I too am a "dog-fighting man." The fun in this game is that you outfit your squadron, and then go head-to-head with your opponent. There's enough tactics and strategy involved that I feel X-wing is akin to chess sometimes (even though they are two totally different games).

That being said, I just ordered one Rebel Transport. I plan on stripping the X-wing components out of it, and simply selling the big ship and all of its cargo and cards and related components. You'll still be able to run the ship, but I want the new X-wing pilots and Astromechs and upgrades.

If you want epic play and you have the loot to buy the ships, go right ahead. It's just not the game I want to play. To each his/her own...

It was pretty clear to me that this was going to go nowhere fast when the OP states in his opening that disagreement with him is pointless.

Consider this an open letter to FFG. Other readers are free to disagree but criticism of me for my opinion is ultimately pointless and doesn't detract from the facts that helped me formulate my frustration and disgust with FFG about the decision as described below.

Why not ask people who got two transports if they'd be willing to part with the X-wing stuff, instead of sharing your complaint letter?

I'm not sure if I'll get a transport, but if I do I'll be more than happy to hand over the X-Wing. Should I go crazy and get more than one transport, I still won't want the X-Wing.

If anybody would like to be considered for an X-Wing giveaway, complete with all associated cards and tokens, all they would have to do is ask and I'll GIVE it to them. Yes GIVE, with no charge.

Heck, I'll be selling my Rebel Transport in mint condition at a discounted price, so a savvy member could buy my transport, get your X-wing stuff for free, and have the whole package at a handsome discount. I'll even ship to the lower 48 States for free.

Why not ask people who got two transports if they'd be willing to part with the X-wing stuff, instead of sharing your complaint letter?

I'm not sure if I'll get a transport, but if I do I'll be more than happy to hand over the X-Wing. Should I go crazy and get more than one transport, I still won't want the X-Wing.

If anybody would like to be considered for an X-Wing giveaway, complete with all associated cards and tokens, all they would have to do is ask and I'll GIVE it to them. Yes GIVE, with no charge.

Heck, I'll be selling my Rebel Transport in mint condition at a discounted price, so a savvy member could buy my transport, get your X-wing stuff for free, and have the whole package at a handsome discount. I'll even ship to the lower 48 States for free.

Together we can rule the galaxy...

Why not ask people who got two transports if they'd be willing to part with the X-wing stuff, instead of sharing your complaint letter?

I'm not sure if I'll get a transport, but if I do I'll be more than happy to hand over the X-Wing. Should I go crazy and get more than one transport, I still won't want the X-Wing.

If anybody would like to be considered for an X-Wing giveaway, complete with all associated cards and tokens, all they would have to do is ask and I'll GIVE it to them. Yes GIVE, with no charge.

Doesn't it come with some non-unique but only available in that box cards? Astromechs maybe, a new generic X-Wing pilot?

So many comments, I'd like to comment on.

But I'll ramble as well.

1.

- X-wing is the most successful game FFG ever made (they made a statement of this somewhere).

- There are shortages of almost each new wave that came out in only a month time.

Thus FFG does not need people who cannot afford the game, its so blistering popular they cannot meet demand. Cannot afford the transport, FFG dont care... so its perfectly ok not to buy it.

2.

- Personal opinion, some like the look of models and others don't. (I hate the look of the HWK so I do not have one)

- You are not required to buy models. If you want in on the tournament scene it usually gets more expensive (although HSF is still very competitive).

So you really do not need to buy it. You can an incredible amount of variety in fleet building without the transport its nuts.

This goes for people who print cards as well (I am not saying printing is bad but be honest about why), I have yet to meet anyone who buys models or cards they do not like for the sake of having more options. They only reason they do is to improve their fleet or create a better deck.

If you play casual, why bother getting more options when you already have so many. Competitive (meaning wanting to win tournaments), look at the top decks or miniature armies... they are usually far more expensive than casual decks.

3.

- this argument destroys argument 2. balance. with the exception of one list out of the top 8 of the world championship every fleet had ships/upgrades out of the basic set. And a few were compiled completely out of the wave 1 and 1,5.

Again, looking at competitive armies and what is yet to come, you will not need the transport to keep up with competition.

Final conclusion: People really do not need to buy the transport or the x-wing/upgrades... you dont. I will buy it because I needed an additional X-wing anyway, I want to play the missions and the transports growing on me. In addition I saved up some money because I knew this was coming months ahead.