Although I somewhat sympathise with a bit of disappointment that you "have" to buy the Transport in order to get the new X-wing, your arguments are inconsistent and don't hold with market realities. I would love for there to be Card-only expansions, for example, but it seems that this is economically infeasible for FFG to produce, and so I would rather they come out with repaint packs if it means the game continues to grow.

It occurs to me that there is a flip side to your argument as well, though. Perhaps you are right that the Transport woudl not sell well without the inclusion of the X-wing. But it seems that for everyone like you who is disappointed that the X-wing is included only in the Transport expansion, there are more people who would be disappointed if FFG was unable to produce the Transport at all. So if including the bonus X-wing is the only way to induce a sufficient number of sales in the Transport, in order to successfully kickstart the Epic format, then I think a lot of people are happy that it was done this way.

Really, so many people have already addressed the issue of expecting to recoup your money, of preferring random purchases, and of methods for obtaining the parts you want on the secondary market, that I need not add anything else to that.

Come live in Australia and play warhammer 40k and try and stay slightly competitive in the current meta and then you will have something to cry about in cost. Most people in Australia getting into xwing from 40k love how cheep this is. I have personally had great customer support about products from FFG.FFG you guys rock keep up the good work

Jesus... has OP ever heard of Games Workshop? FFG has been doing a great job. $15 bucks for a fully painted (!!!) mini with cards, bits, rules, etc is a bargain!

Gaming is all relative and it's all about what you can afford and what you're into. I love this game but never seem to have enough free time to play. I can't wait to collect enough for Epic play, but I'm not rushing to collect 'em all.

Have you played netrunner? magic? video games with DLC? It's all relative, guy... if you like something you'll spend money and time enjoy it, If its not worth it or you don't really have to social bubble for it, you move on to something else...

LIFE.

clearly not FFGs fault... What do you want? infinite $15 ships for skirmish battles? I'm pretty sure wave 4 is all you'd ever want! It sounds like you're a completionist... How about you buy the transport and sell off what you dont want on the interwebs? or this message board?

I know I'll probably have 2 transports eventually... someone somewhere would by that transport and parts for a reasonable price...

Think outside the bun.

I think the OP has never played WH40K, despite his claims to the contrary. Anyone who has would know how expensive THAT game can be for a respectable army. I can see needing to spend over $200 for the game, even buying models on the secondary market, to get a competative army. All you need for X-wing is about $75-80 for the core set and two X-wings, or if you want variety the X-wing and Y-wing. Imperial players need a little more cash, but only a bit more.

In regard to the secondary market . . .

Why on God's green earth would I want to get into *THAT* mess?! It's like the stock market, and you have to dedicate your time to comparing prices, finding good deals, and locating that one ultra-rare mini or card to make your deck competitive.

You know how long I have to spend to make my squad competitive in X-wing? About thirty seconds to buy a new mini. Less time if I already have the ships bought and paid for (I usually know what my favorite cards are and build my squad around them). Of course, you have to play the game to know if the squad is effective, but you also have to play Magic, WH40K, or any other tabletop game to know if your squad is effective, and typically your mistakes are VERY costly with any other game.

Personally, I plan on saving my money for two more transports and a second Tantive IV (repaint value). All three of those combined cost half of what my friend's command deck in Magic cost him to acquire, and even that's going to be obsolete in a year.

Only a true idiot would ever claim Magic of all games is cheaper than X-wing!

By the way, to put things into perspective: I have a job that pays less than $300 per month*. It's a photography job with Regehr Photography, based in Winfield/Strother Field in Kansas, USA. I'm stuck living with my parents, but I still have to pay rent and buy gas for my car.

And *I* can afford X-wing! Even Epic-scale ships!

*it actually varies; some months when GE has a good season I can get upwards of $800 per month, but that's the exception to the rule.

GW is evil and needs to die. I can no longer justify spending $60 dollars on a model, hours putting it together, even more time to paint it, look like a proud papa when i put it on the table, then 1 space marine with a lascanon hits it, rolls a 6 for damage and its gone. WOOOOHOOOO!!!!!! way to blow $60 bucks!!!!!!!

Yeah, i hate that....I hate GW and their prices. The models are cool though, and I love putting them together and painting them...but the rules...just suck...

I agree. I've been thinking about getting a Tau Hammerhead just to build it into a model with lights and such for display. No way would I ever get into Warhammer, though.

X-Wing, including the Rebel Transport, is dirt cheap compared to lots of other board and miniature games.

Yup...a kid who knows how to get out there and cut a few lawns, or wash a few cars can buy an entire fleet in a few months...A-Men!

Good for that kid, who by the way also doesn't worry about things, like mortgage, utilities, rent, food, and debt. Seriously.

I found this pretty funny... of course a kid doesn't have the financial responsibilities of an adult, lets not be silly. i do think you missed the point of what Joe wrote, if a kid in today's age can put money aside for something like a table top game that should tell you that said game is fairly reasonable.

I'm going to add a bit about my nephew who is 11 years old and plays. I bought him the starter as a Christmas gift and he has bought each and every one of his other minis. He has almost 1 of every ship and is currently saving for a transport. He walks dogs, cleans neighbors yards and has even cleaned out a few garages. Now knowing how most children "manage" their money especially 11 year old kids, again I say and stress this goes a long way to show how reasonable this game is.

One last thing, this same nephew thought heroclix was too expensive because of the blind boosters....

Right on!

I was working at 11 too, my grand pops even singed a waver form for me to get a paper route a year early, the bike around town kind of thing. If you want toys you get off of your butt and make that money! I can buy a lot of stuff because I worked **** hard to get myself set up in my middle age.

I have no patience for people who are not willing to be reasonable about their own lives, and cry false foul.

I have had cool toys my whole life...and there is a reason for it too...

Yesh.

I agree. I've been thinking about getting a Tau Hammerhead just to build it into a model with lights and such for display. No way would I ever get into Warhammer, though.

It is evil...you CAN trust me in this matter.

Regarding resell value:

I sold 2 R5 Astromechs for $10. Then I went on cool stuff inc and bought $100 worth of stuff (after selling $90 of star wars toys). One of the ship I bought was a Y-Wing, which came with an R5 Astromech.

Be smart about it. Don't lump sum your collection because everyone will try to talk to down. Sell your upgrades (especially Gunner or Advanced Sensors) and your ships 1 or 2 at a time and you probably make your money back.

GW is evil and needs to die. I can no longer justify spending $60 dollars on a model, hours putting it together, even more time to paint it, look like a proud papa when i put it on the table, then 1 space marine with a lascanon hits it, rolls a 6 for damage and its gone. WOOOOHOOOO!!!!!! way to blow $60 bucks!!!!!!!

Yeah, i hate that....I hate GW and their prices. The models are cool though, and I love putting them together and painting them...but the rules...just suck...

The fact that they "update" their rules every couple of years to make your current models ineffective is the frustrating part. I invested heavily in their epic scale Titan Legions and loved playing it. Then, came the inevitable rehash that was Epic 40,000 where they dumbed down the whole game. They even started calling some of the Titan weapons "death rays". Didn't bother playing it as the flavour was gone. Another couple of years and lack of sales lead to another rehash in the form of Epic Armageddon, which brought back the flavour of the game. My heavy investment paid off, as I had not sold anything and now we had a good game once again.

Their endless rules releases are just rehashing the same game mechanic with subtle tweaks. Doesn't justify the massive prices they ask. X-Wing has to be, by far, the most cost effective table-top game to get into. It's by no means a "rich man's" game. If you want to try a "rich man's" game, go America's Cup yacht racing!

Guys after the reading what the OP wrote I gotta say he's completely right.

I mean after all how dare FFG for marketing the way they do. Shameless the way that they allow us to know the contents of each and every expansion allowing us to make an accurate cost/benefit decision of ever purchase is sicking. It is also so annoying that they designed a game that the mini's/cards aren't actually needed in most if not all cases. The nerve How dare they twist our arms! I urge the OP to sell his collection to me at a terrible loss to expose worthless resale value (thus proving how they really screwed us) to open the eyes of all us victims of FFG's propaganda.

-

apparently a rich fat cat 1%er (actually if I have 2 transports does that make me a .001%er?)

who would have thought that it was star wars that made me a 1%er

........seriously though....no.... just no OP..not even close

Wanna Play, then shut up and pay.

I plan to get back to it, now that I have some decent STAW fleets built...and become a very fat X-Wing cat.

I am sorry I cheated on you FFG...but you was taking to **** long for me.

It is all good now...and I still love you babies!

Off-topic, this thread makes me glad I never got into WH. I grew up playing Battletech, got out of the hobby for a loooooong time, and started back up with X-Wing followed quickly by Dreadball. As for secondary market concerns...... if I bought it, I meant to buy it. I don't get in to a game expecting to get out.

Battletech is actually kind of comparable to X-wing, because you can pick which minis you want to use. And it's still more expensive for what you get, because you buy mostly unassembled miniatures with no paint and no extras, whereas X-wing's are fully painted, come with everything you need, and every upgrade and card other than the pilot, title, and "X-only" cards can be used on other ships. Plus many miniatures are more expensive than X-wing minis.

Yup...the first real miniatures game that I played was B-Tech too.

I'd rather blast people with my real life Atlas AS7-RS. And by real life, I mean MWO.

I'd rather blast people with my real life Atlas AS7-RS. And by real life, I mean MWO.

I haven't played MWO, how are you liking it? I'm in the beta for Mechwarrior Tactics and it's a blast!

I like it a lot, very refreshing. There's nothing quite like wrecking half the enemy team in your triple UAC5 Ilya Muromets, or raining hellfire with your LRM20 decked Catapult. But my first and only love will always be the Atlas. <3

I like it a lot, very refreshing. There's nothing quite like wrecking half the enemy team in your triple UAC5 Ilya Muromets, or raining hellfire with your LRM20 decked Catapult. But my first and only love will always be the Atlas. <3

I'll have to check it out. If you get a chance, definitely check out MWT. I think Totalbiscuit has a couple of videos on his YouTube channel where he played AngryJoe. It's very much the tabletop game on a computer, except you select all of your movements and attacks, and your opponent does, then everything happens at once.

I actually threw $20 bucks at them to get into the MWT beta a year or two back, and couldn't wrap my mind around the game. Not that it was particularly hard, or because I don't like tactics games (I like them plenty), but I just didn't have the patience to figure it out at the time.

You could buy a box of Magic for roughly the same price, sell the unwanted rares and uncommons to recoup half the price of the box (2/3 is more typical if you sell ALL your foils), and then use the rest as the base for 2-3 solid deckbuilds. From there, it's just a matter of picking up singles to round out the decks you want to play.

No. Just no. This is not possible to do with Magic, at all, ever. I entirely disagree with your claim.

X-Wing is orders of magnitude cheaper to own and play than Magic is and ever will be.

Well, disagree all you want but I've done it. Multiple times. The notion that one must buy every high money card out there to do well is myth.

I haven't played Magic in 5 years, but when I did play I frequently won with decks that cost less than $20. The lack of big money cards played to my advantage more times than not.

So you last played before Jace, the Match Sculptor and Primeval Titan started pushing decks up towards $400? People here are starting to grumble about power creep, but they don't know what power creep is. The meta has changed in the past five years... a lot.

Some perspective: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=66966

This deck placed 27th at a recent event. Using NM/M prices from StarCityGames, and without including the sideboard, the total cost of the deck comes out to just over $500. Now that's probably a little on the high end, but it still only placed 27th. It's not even a very complex deck. If you wanted to make a budget version of the deck by cutting out the expensive non-basic lands, it would still hover somewhere in the $300+ range.

Well if they have made it so that an average person can't pick up a targeted set of cards and play well enough to enjoy the game without breaking the bank, that's unfortunate.

Magic is a "better value"? Really? How many of those $4 packs to you have to buy to make a deck? How many of those $4 packs do you have to buy to make a GOOD deck? At least in X-Wing you know what you're buying, unlike the blind-buy money-sucking models of the "better values" you mention. Please go back to playing the "better value" games and see how your pocketbook likes it.

Did the OP really go there? Magic? OP can EABOD for all I care. Magic has no value whatsoever, and silly baseball cards for nerds certainly don't have the same aesthetic value as actual models. Even as an Imperial player, I plan on buying the large Rebel ships just to have on my desk at work. Doesn't have the same curb appeal if I had a bunch of naff @ssed MtG cards in my cube.

I suggest the OP respectfully return the CCG minoc cave from whence he came.