Comments run the gamut of my expectations regarding responses. I could contradict successfully almost every QQ accusation, but suffice to say I understand I am not being forced to buy this product. Nor is anyone else. What I am, what everyone is, being forced to do - particularly those of us who only want to add an element to the aspect of the game we enjoy the way we're used to playing it - is to scrounge up FOUR TIMES the amount of what I would normally pay (in truth, more like 5-6 times what I would pay when considering that most online venues sell the small ships for about $10) just to have 1/2 of what I want.

Whether I ever get the ship or not isn't the point, nor is whether the product is appropriately priced. What is relevant is the fact that the package is produced in a way that IMO is a bit underhanded, probably because it wasn't expected to sell without including something else - as opposed to the Tantive IV, which will be a great collector's display piece.

Regarding the Magic and HeroClix comparisons, if you are actually buying "blind boosters" off the shelf hoping to build decks or teams, then yeah it takes a bit. But those games have a secondary value those of you who attacked that part of the OP seem to be ignoring. Try pricing your collection of X-Wing for resell and convince yourself you can get everything back that you spent on it. I've collected a ton of Magic and other collectable games over the years, and have sold a small portion of most of those. I have recouped every bit I spent and still have ample enough to play with. I will never be able to say that about X-Wing. I would have to sell it all and still only get about half back if I'm lucky, based on the prices I've seen. And don't even get me started on LCGs, but that is neither here nor there.

In the final analysis, it comes down to what is fun and what is practical. This didn't "become" a rich man's game - it started out that way. You know what you get but it'll never be worth more than what you paid for it.

I don't necessarily disagree with your analysis but it is interesting to see the different viewpoints of what people consider to be "expensive." It appears from your post something is expensive if it doesn't retain their value and in a way that does make sense since if you don;t need it anymore you could always sell it and recoup the loss completely. It appears that some people only consider the per model cost, and in that respect X-Wing is pretty up there. Some other including myself go by a per game cost, which in relative terms makes X-Wing an incredibly cost effective game, especially I don't forsee selling the pieces at all.

I used to feel that way about the old WotC Star Wars Minis game when it was being produced. Seven years after stupidly abandoning the license, I found myself dusting off bins off the stuff in order to sell it, and was ecstatic that it still had secondary value. Ironically, I used a portion of the money from the sell of SWM to buy a secondary market lot of X-wing ships on ebay at a price I'm positive was a loss for the seller.

Comments run the gamut of my expectations regarding responses. I could contradict successfully almost every QQ accusation, but suffice to say I understand I am not being forced to buy this product. Nor is anyone else. What I am, what everyone is, being forced to do - particularly those of us who only want to add an element to the aspect of the game we enjoy the way we're used to playing it - is to scrounge up FOUR TIMES the amount of what I would normally pay (in truth, more like 5-6 times what I would pay when considering that most online venues sell the small ships for about $10) just to have 1/2 of what I want.

Whether I ever get the ship or not isn't the point, nor is whether the product is appropriately priced. What is relevant is the fact that the package is produced in a way that IMO is a bit underhanded, probably because it wasn't expected to sell without including something else - as opposed to the Tantive IV, which will be a great collector's display piece.

Regarding the Magic and HeroClix comparisons, if you are actually buying "blind boosters" off the shelf hoping to build decks or teams, then yeah it takes a bit. But those games have a secondary value those of you who attacked that part of the OP seem to be ignoring. Try pricing your collection of X-Wing for resell and convince yourself you can get everything back that you spent on it. I've collected a ton of Magic and other collectable games over the years, and have sold a small portion of most of those. I have recouped every bit I spent and still have ample enough to play with. I will never be able to say that about X-Wing. I would have to sell it all and still only get about half back if I'm lucky, based on the prices I've seen. And don't even get me started on LCGs, but that is neither here nor there.

In the final analysis, it comes down to what is fun and what is practical. This didn't "become" a rich man's game - it started out that way. You know what you get but it'll never be worth more than what you paid for it.

I don't necessarily disagree with your analysis but it is interesting to see the different viewpoints of what people consider to be "expensive." It appears from your post something is expensive if it doesn't retain their value and in a way that does make sense since if you don;t need it anymore you could always sell it and recoup the loss completely. It appears that some people only consider the per model cost, and in that respect X-Wing is pretty up there. Some other including myself go by a per game cost, which in relative terms makes X-Wing an incredibly cost effective game, especially I don't forsee selling the pieces at all.

I used to feel that way about the old WotC Star Wars Minis game when it was being produced. Seven years after stupidly abandoning the license, I found myself dusting off bins off the stuff in order to sell it, and was ecstatic that it still had secondary value. Ironically, I used a portion of the money from the sell of SWM to buy a secondary market lot of X-wing ships.

Yeah, no amount of internet rage is going to make you believe your wrong, especially when its based on the personal opinion you express in your original post. Just the nature of the topic you posted.

Just a suggestion (just trying to be helpful so please don't consider this to be condescending), instead of printing out the cards or trying to replicate them, it would probably be easier to take a look at http://xwing-builder.co.uk/build

At the print screen, you can have all the rules for the cards written out on an easy to view sheet. My group and I strictly use the printouts during casual games just because its more convenient instead of trying to keep all of our cards straight. It also lets us playtest with all of the released card (and spoiled ones as well) so we make intelligent purchases.

So... you want a company to change the way they are doing business that is both making them money and making the majority of their player base happy because YOU can't sell their product to someone else for a higher price???

OP has clearly never played Warhammer.

Comments run the gamut of my expectations regarding responses. I could contradict successfully almost every QQ accusation, but suffice to say I understand I am not being forced to buy this product. Nor is anyone else. What I am, what everyone is, being forced to do - particularly those of us who only want to add an element to the aspect of the game we enjoy the way we're used to playing it - is to scrounge up FOUR TIMES the amount of what I would normally pay (in truth, more like 5-6 times what I would pay when considering that most online venues sell the small ships for about $10) just to have 1/2 of what I want.

Whether I ever get the ship or not isn't the point, nor is whether the product is appropriately priced. What is relevant is the fact that the package is produced in a way that IMO is a bit underhanded, probably because it wasn't expected to sell without including something else - as opposed to the Tantive IV, which will be a great collector's display piece.

Regarding the Magic and HeroClix comparisons, if you are actually buying "blind boosters" off the shelf hoping to build decks or teams, then yeah it takes a bit. But those games have a secondary value those of you who attacked that part of the OP seem to be ignoring. Try pricing your collection of X-Wing for resell and convince yourself you can get everything back that you spent on it. I've collected a ton of Magic and other collectable games over the years, and have sold a small portion of most of those. I have recouped every bit I spent and still have ample enough to play with. I will never be able to say that about X-Wing. I would have to sell it all and still only get about half back if I'm lucky, based on the prices I've seen. And don't even get me started on LCGs, but that is neither here nor there.

In the final analysis, it comes down to what is fun and what is practical. This didn't "become" a rich man's game - it started out that way. You know what you get but it'll never be worth more than what you paid for it.

There is another side to this coin, and that's that FFG is able to make smart business decisions that increase their profit. For example, increasing demand for the transport by packaging it with another item. This smart business decision is likely actually a good thing for X-wing long term. It allows them to continue to develop this game, and add resources and energy to it.

While your concern with this type of packaging is certainly valid, my hunch is that FFG isn't going to notice the loss unless it hits them hard enough that they think they would have been better off separating the two. Possible, I guess, but doubtful, especially as it would eat into their other.

As for your concern about the fact that the resale value isn't high enough for you, have you considered that would change if the game went out of print? Either way, I really don't understand this point as it's not their job to make sure that you get a higher return than you paid for it and would be bad business for them as it would mean they are not meeting their own demand, at least the way they print them, which most people see as far more friendly than what a company like WizKids does.

OP has clearly never played Warhammer.

I would have LOVED 40k. I first saw it when I walked into the FLGS one day, and was amazed at the scenery they make. That'd be my favorite part. So, I did some looking around, and...then I saw the price and carefully placed it back on the shelf. The game itself also looked awesome. I'm all for an in-depth strategy tabletop game like that.

And then came Star Wars. After seeing the 40k prices, I jumped right into this game, getting my first core set along with an A-wing and an Interceptor, because I knew 2 TIEs and a single X-wing wouldn't be enough for me.

And then it quickly grew into my signature, along with various acrylic doodads.

No regrets here. Really hope to get more people into it though, as right now, it's just me and one of my roommates.

Thank you Boris. I needed the laugh.

While it is perfectly understandable to not like what FFG did (though not out of the ordinary with their other games), the use of "resell value" or "investment" is a pitiful reason to like or dislike a game. This is a luxury item. If you can't afford it, don't buy it or borrow from a friend.

OP has clearly never played Warhammer.

Actually, I have. Calling Warhammer a rich man's game doesn't mean this one isn't. The two statements aren't mutually exclusive.

Thank you Boris. I needed the laugh.

While it is perfectly understandable to not like what FFG did (though not out of the ordinary with their other games), the use of "resell value" or "investment" is a pitiful reason to like or dislike a game. This is a luxury item. If you can't afford it, don't buy it or borrow from a friend.

Who said they don't like the game based on resell ability? Are we reading the same thread?

"This is a luxury item. If you can't afford it, don't buy it" is the sentiment that keeps more people from getting into it. And games like these need more customers in order to keep going.

If you buy the game at an LGS with a friend but the 28 other regulars won't buy it because they've been told "if you can't afford it, don't buy it," how much attention do you think it will get in terms of opportunities for Organized Play and regular league/tournament opportunities?

This is why I despise the low end gamer nerds. No taste, no money, no heart...just stupid asses that will cry about something that is awesome, because they can not buy it. Here now read my list... and look at the three ships I shop lifted. I went and painted on 'em with a sh*tty wash and now I am posting them on the forum! And here be me other list, and this am be tha list me use fer tie-swarmies...yuk, yuk. I have me five whole ships and I play on da floor!

Nobody cares, now go and get a life...already!

:lol:

Regarding the secondary market. The lack thereof undercuts your whole rich person's game nonsense. There is no requirement to buy anything except exactly what you want to play this game. The lack of secondary market is a direct result of the absence of scarcity. I will happily bet most, if not all, of the x wing regular cards from the transport will be released again in an aces pack or some other format.

The secondary market killed magic for me. I still have my cards but the price guides destroyed trading. The power creep and the need to keep buying to play competitively.. Your entire premise on money is flawed. Xwing is not a fiscal investment one should expect a return on. It is an awesome car one understands will depreciate but which will offer many, many hours of fun.

Seriously your op is essentially pining for x wing to be "collectible" instead of what it is, that really would be a rich person's game and I would have nothing to do with it.

X-Wing, including the Rebel Transport, is dirt cheap compared to lots of other board and miniature games.

Perhaps I misread your comment on how FFG's strategies is mishandling it and how you won't be able to make your money back when you get out of the game. Comparing the "value" of a ship vs a booster pack. I just don't view these things as an investment, as I get the value out of how much I enjoy it, even if it is just for collecting. That the AGOT LCG is still going stronger than ever should be a point that their philosophies are not a detriment to long term success.

I currently don't have a Transport. It will be a while before I can afford one. But, I don't feel my ability to compete is any way impaired. I want one, even if the chance to play Epic games is going to be few and far between. But as good as the X-wings are, what I have is just as good. Yeah, I have the completionist urge. But, is how FFG tries to take advantage of that any way different than what WOTC or Wizkids does? People need to know their financial limit, and plan accordingly. Amazingly, FFG is actually good about powercreep in this game, and you don't need to buy a LOT to be competitive.

This is why I despise the low end gamer nerds. No taste, no money, no heart...just stupid asses that will cry about something that is awesome, because they can not buy it. Here now read my list... and look at the three ships I shop lifted. I went and painted on 'em with a sh*tty wash and now I am posting them on the forum! And here be me other list, and this am be tha list me use fer tie-swarmies...yuk, yuk. I have me five whole ships and I play on da floor!

Nobody cares, now go and get a life...already!

:lol:

Name calling, nice. Thanks for your soulless response. Do you spit on the cashier at Mickey D's too?

See there you go...I DO NOT EAT AT D's...not-evah!

:lol:

X-Wing, including the Rebel Transport, is dirt cheap compared to lots of other board and miniature games.

Yup...a kid who knows how to get out there and cut a few lawns, or wash a few cars can buy an entire fleet in a few months...A-Men!

That the AGOT LCG is still going stronger than ever should be a point that their philosophies are not a detriment to long term success.

I'm kind of surprised by this statement. The evidence I've seen on the subject implies the contrary. Don't know if it's still there, but a while back there was a 50-something page thread on the GoT LCG section about how it's impossible to recruit new players into the game because of the price point entry barrier after God knows how many sets.

I currently don't have a Transport. It will be a while before I can afford one. But, I don't feel my ability to compete is any way impaired. I want one, even if the chance to play Epic games is going to be few and far between. But as good as the X-wings are, what I have is just as good. Yeah, I have the completionist urge.

Maybe that's my issue as well - if I'm going to play a game I want to be able to include the elements that are a part of the game. For the first time that I can recall with FFG, an element for the game the way I play it has been coupled with a useless element to make people buy that useless element. My position is that is decision is underhanded, and callous toward people who operate on a gaming budget of <$30. It's not cost-efficient for people in that position to buy the product. Others may disagree and that is their prerogative. Having that opinion doesn't make me a "stupid ass" anymore than the disappointment that too many people who might play won't because the ships are $10 a pop and you need to spend $50-100 to be competitive even in a casual setting.

But, is how FFG tries to take advantage of that any way different than what WOTC or Wizkids does? People need to know their financial limit, and plan accordingly. Amazingly, FFG is actually good about powercreep in this game, and you don't need to buy a LOT to be competitive.

This is a great question, and great assessment. FFG's method is different in that they've removed one of the most important aspects of evolving games: the ability to trade or sell unwanted elements on the secondary market. A customer is required to spend cash with the company to get into the game. Really think about that. I can't buy a "booster scratch-off" pack of cards and then trade or sell the unwanted rare I luckily pulled for different cards. Buying singles on the secondary market is the best way to build decks or teams in the other games previously mentioned. I could build a fun, semi-competitive team for a HC event for less than it would cost me to get into X-Wing. While, I'm not saying that's what I'd rather do, I'm saying it's factually true that it can be done. The pro of this game - of any FFG living game - is that you know exactly what you get when you buy it. The con of the living game is that getting to know what you're getting requires straight cash and leaves no option for trading something of value for an equal amount of value within the same game.

None of this has anything to do with the reason I wrote the first post, though.

X-Wing, including the Rebel Transport, is dirt cheap compared to lots of other board and miniature games.

Yup...a kid who knows how to get out there and cut a few lawns, or wash a few cars can buy an entire fleet in a few months...A-Men!

Good for that kid, who by the way also doesn't worry about things, like mortgage, utilities, rent, food, and debt. Seriously.

We pick our drug dealer. We all have to make the choice of what we prefer. I prefer how FFG does it. Doesn't mean my views are universal.

The game doesn't actually require a lot of money to play and play competitive. You can be competitive for $85 for the 100 point level and then slowly build out. You can do 4 X's or 2 X's and 2 B's. Slowly buy the shuttles for Adv Sens and you are fine.

As for Epic, it isn't for everyone. To be honest, it will probably be a while before you see those tournaments pop up. It is more fun play than anything. The demand for huge ships was there. The players demanded it. You can't fault them for trying to meet that need.

All in all, I am very happy with FFG. The only thing I wish they had is a game night locator for locations to post up events. Would make it easier for all games to be found on a competitive level.

Online:

Core Set- $40

Millennium Falcon -$20

X-wing Expansion- $10

The ability to play XWMG competitively with a respectable chance at actually winning?

Priceless.

Seriously, can you enter MtG for $70 and actually have any hope at playing at a competitive level?

And let's not even compare XWMG to "the game which shall not be named."

Looking at my vast shelves/boxes of Imperial Guard miniatures... *facepalm*

The only thing I wish they had is a game night locator for locations to post up events. Would make it easier for all games to be found on a competitive level.

Also just for friendly, looking for group, type searches.

You can be competitive for $85 for the 100 point level and then slowly build out.

That's really not cheap for a collectible style game. You could buy a box of Magic for roughly the same price, sell the unwanted rares and uncommons to recoup half the price of the box (2/3 is more typical if you sell ALL your foils), and then use the rest as the base for 2-3 solid deckbuilds. From there, it's just a matter of picking up singles to round out the decks you want to play.

More often, I reflect back on my days of Star Wars Minis when $110 netted 84 miniatures. That's just over $1 a fig, and most of them were worth at least $1. Now it's being suggested that $85 for roughly 4-6 ships is a "good deal." As much as I enjoy the game, I just don't think the facts support that claim. If they did, more people would be playing it.

Whatever OP, I don’t understand your rant at all.

I’m now part of the upper class because I bought a $40 transport? That’s silly. It costs more than that for the family to go see a movie.

Did FFG package an X-wing with a transport to help sell it? Yup, and it’s a good business decision too. How is that under handed or preying on the poor?

Also, how is the transport useless? It does a lot of cool things. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it useless and not part of the game.

I don’t understand what your beef is with epic play? Epic play is just a larger version of the regular game. You can drop the point total to 200 if you only have one of each ship. Perhaps a tournament build would get pricey but you said you play casually (as do I).

I don’t have a lot of cash either for the same reasons as you list. Yet I love this game and support it with what my budget allows. The best thing is that you can spend as much or as little as you want and still have a great time.

Just because you don’t want to save up $40 doesn’t make FFG evil and callous.