open space dogfighting happens all the time in Star Wars

This is actually a common misconception caused by years of video games and cheesy novels. Go watch the films again and you'll see most space encounters either do occur in terrain or are a chase.

Space encounters from films occur in:

Escape from Naboo: Openish space

Battle of Naboo: Mix of fighter screens and point defenses.

Geonosis pursuit: Asteroid field (Chase)

Battle of Coruscant: Absolutely ginormous naval battle

Falcon escape: Open space

Death Star Assault: Air Defense Zone above the DStar

Falcon Escape (Hoth Edition): Asteroid Field (Chase)

Falcon Escape From Asteroid Field: Chase in Asteroid Field ended in 1-2 turns in open space

Falcon Escape From Bespin: Chase in Open Air/Space

Battle of Endor: Massive fleet engagement

See? Only 3.5 of 10 battles were actually open space, and 1.5 of those were chases. Remember, the way space battles work in this system and the low endurance of fighter craft means a lot of times the larger battle is creating the terrain the player must navigate. Tossing four dozen Vulture droids at the players is a way to have an encounter end with a bunch of players sucking vacuum. Tossing a half dozen Vulture droids at the players and having the rest count as terrain is going to end much better and leverage the system mechanics better.

So what you're saying is that what I said is actually in the rules. You've just confirmed that what I said wasn't even a house rule. It's a simple rule and game mechanic in the CRB. What's the problem?

The problem is you made incorrect blanket statements that you didn't back up with anything.

The DC for using your character's Pilot Skill in Open Space while in Combat

You weren't saying opposed checks was one option of many, you were saying it's the option. It's the same as saying "Ford Mustangs are painted red." Some certainly are, but many are not.

and

In Combat - the Pilot ALWAYS has to make a roll.

Which is just plain incorrect. You don't always make piloting rolls, the system actually was designed to get away from that mentality.

Then when asked to justify your statements you quoted personal opinions on the matter, not actual rules.

Look man, it's ok, these rules are waaaay different then how other RPGs handle this sort of thing, no need to get upset. It took most of us a couple reads to get it and there's plenty of house rulesets out there simply because not everyone gets/likes the official one. If you don't like the rules, don't use em, but don't lose your cool when you present your house rules as official and people disagree.

Raico, you obviously haven't read the rules and are making up your own. That is fine, but it's not the rules as written in the CRB. Since this is the official forums I'd think it proper form and etiquette to quote the rules, or at the very least be honest about how you deviate from the rules as written, if you're not clear about that you will be corrected, because what you're saying is incorrect as per the rules. As simple as that.

While you can use opposed checks, those are circumstantial and have a specific effect related to defensive zones/fire arcs for vehicles with speed 3 or lower, or vehicles with silhouette 5 or larger (it's not some generic effect and pointless check that you make it). For faster and/or smaller starships you have manoeuvres, default rules and an Action that are better options than your suggested opposed check every round. There is no point in wasting your one Action every round rolling opposed checks "just because", particularly when that Action can be spent attacking your target, also an Action (of which you only get one every round, barring a few select talents' effect). Actually, since the default rules state that silhouette 4 and smaller vehicle always decide which defensive zone is hit, there is no point in using an opposed check for those vehicles (which most players use) and while Gain the Advantage cancels that effect I'd not suggest allowing a normal opposed check negate that particular Action (Gain the Advantage) and nothing in the rules states that you can.

A common modification is to add the chase rules to space combat, and that way add more checks and danger to the game, which is a fair modification, but it is a modification. The chase mechanic is more optional when it comes to straight up combat, but very useful certainly. The chase mechanic on the other hand is a competitive check, not opposed (if I recall correctly).

Man, if I weren't' so busy with other stuff I'd just make a bloody "flight school" animation that walks you through every vehicle maneuver and action in the book...

open space dogfighting happens all the time in Star Wars

This is actually a common misconception caused by years of video games and cheesy novels. Go watch the films again and you'll see most space encounters either do occur in terrain or are a chase.

Space encounters from films occur in:

Escape from Naboo: Openish space

Battle of Naboo: Mix of fighter screens and point defenses.

Geonosis pursuit: Asteroid field (Chase)

Battle of Coruscant: Absolutely ginormous naval battle

Falcon escape: Open space

Death Star Assault: Air Defense Zone above the DStar

Falcon Escape (Hoth Edition): Asteroid Field (Chase)

Falcon Escape From Asteroid Field: Chase in Asteroid Field ended in 1-2 turns in open space

Falcon Escape From Bespin: Chase in Open Air/Space

Battle of Endor: Massive fleet engagement

See? Only 3.5 of 10 battles were actually open space, and 1.5 of those were chases. Remember, the way space battles work in this system and the low endurance of fighter craft means a lot of times the larger battle is creating the terrain the player must navigate. Tossing four dozen Vulture droids at the players is a way to have an encounter end with a bunch of players sucking vacuum. Tossing a half dozen Vulture droids at the players and having the rest count as terrain is going to end much better and leverage the system mechanics better.

So what you're saying is that what I said is actually in the rules. You've just confirmed that what I said wasn't even a house rule. It's a simple rule and game mechanic in the CRB. What's the problem?

The problem is you made incorrect blanket statements that you didn't back up with anything.

The DC for using your character's Pilot Skill in Open Space while in Combat

You weren't saying opposed checks was one option of many, you were saying it's the option. It's the same as saying "Ford Mustangs are painted red." Some certainly are, but many are not.

and

In Combat - the Pilot ALWAYS has to make a roll.

Which is just plain incorrect. You don't always make piloting rolls, the system actually was designed to get away from that mentality.

Then when asked to justify your statements you quoted personal opinions on the matter, not actual rules.

Look man, it's ok, these rules are waaaay different then how other RPGs handle this sort of thing, no need to get upset. It took most of us a couple reads to get it and there's plenty of house rulesets out there simply because not everyone gets/likes the official one. If you don't like the rules, don't use em, but don't lose your cool when you present your house rules as official and people disagree.

So you're problem with what I said is the way in which I said it. Well... that's very pertinent. Thanks.

Raico, you obviously haven't read the rules and are making up your own. That is fine, but it's not the rules as written in the CRB. Since this is the official forums I'd think it proper form and etiquette to quote the rules, or at the very least be honest about how you deviate from the rules as written, if you're not clear about that you will be corrected, because what you're saying is incorrect as per the rules. As simple as that.

While you can use opposed checks, those are circumstantial and have a specific effect related to defensive zones/fire arcs for vehicles with speed 3 or lower, or vehicles with silhouette 5 or larger (it's not some generic effect and pointless check that you make it). For faster and/or smaller starships you have manoeuvres, default rules and an Action that are better options than your suggested opposed check every round. There is no point in wasting your one Action every round rolling opposed checks "just because", particularly when that Action can be spent attacking your target, also an Action (of which you only get one every round, barring a few select talents' effect). Actually, since the default rules state that silhouette 4 and smaller vehicle always decide which defensive zone is hit, there is no point in using an opposed check for those vehicles (which most players use) and while Gain the Advantage cancels that effect I'd not suggest allowing a normal opposed check negate that particular Action (Gain the Advantage) and nothing in the rules states that you can.

A common modification is to add the chase rules to space combat, and that way add more checks and danger to the game, which is a fair modification, but it is a modification. The chase mechanic is more optional when it comes to straight up combat, but very useful certainly. The chase mechanic on the other hand is a competitive check, not opposed (if I recall correctly).

I didn't say anything that deviates from the CRB.

You can make a Pilot vs Pilot check.

You should be making rolls as a Pilot. If you as the player feel like you don't have a purpose.... roll a Pilot vs Pilot.

You're not correcting anything. All you're doing is applying further understanding for those involved. Which... good for all of us. We appreciate it. But don't sit here and pretend like you're going to lecture me like I did something wrong and dishonest when I didn't.

Well, you did. If you read the CRB you'd know what the specific uses for the opposed pilot check are. You shouldn't be making opposed pilot checks when there is no need to: like when piloting vehicles silhouette 4 or smaller, and with speed 4 or higher. It has a very specific use (changing facing for slow or large ships; and some types of chases, although these are normally resolved using competitive checks). Of course you could use it for more often and for other purposes, but then you're entering modifications to the space combat rules, so that would be dishonest not to make clear, and you didn't. You picked a mechanic that exist in the game and clearly said that this is how it works, which of course it isn't, which is clear to anyone who's read the rules. You also obviously didn't know that the Pilot skill has a specific use for such a check before someone else pointed it out, but you still do not seem to understand the use for it with the Pilot skill, you're making assumptions and being creative, which is fine, but it's not how the rules are written and therefore incorrect. However cool and creative your suggestion is.

I am correcting you fallacious explanation of the rules. Of course, your rhetoric is pre-adolescent so I'm figuring out where this is going, enjoy. You are dishonest and wrong, you're just attempting to be clever. Good for you.

Rules lawyers. Great. Here's my advice to the OP - this time in more detail.

Have fun with the game. If the rules, as so lawyered here in this thread, are not allowing you to have fun or are too complicated and convoluted that you need it explained more simply - start saying to yourself that the rules as written aren't the be-all end-all.

I give you permission to use a Pilot vs Pilot check even if you have a silhouette smaller than 4, and are traveling at a speed faster than 4, because that's fun and cool, and it gives you something to do besides "generate some terrain" - which as we all know, spontaneously generating as a PC when the GM might not have put any in the encounter in the first place is totally in the CRB.

Then again.... I'm sure anyone could use a Destiny LS Point to spontaneously generate some terrain for them to fly around. I also am sure that if you really wanted to be technical about it... anyone could use a Destiny LS Point to just make a Pilot vs Pilot check in a ship smaller than silhouette 4 going faster than speed 4.

But whatever...