Minis that scream and explode so they can be heard as well as seen, I like where your head is.......

I'm not sure THAT'S where my head was but I can't deny liking sound effects. My GM uses a sound board so, even there, minis aren't required!

Minis that scream and explode so they can be heard as well as seen, I like where your head is.......

I'm not sure THAT'S where my head was but I can't deny liking sound effects. My GM uses a sound board so, even there, minis aren't required!

However, minis with frikkin lasers and hand grenades would be really cool......

I just clear off an area in the center of the table and start laying out stuff and say 'this is', and 'that is'...but when I have to go digging up my old case of Necromunda figures to represent bad guys, I find myself wishing for a lot more of those little stormtrooper chits

This reminds me of the reason why I typically do not use maps in EotE, I don't like breaking from the narrative to stop and set up or draw a map and lay out miniatures.

I'm highly mobile as I GM...I don't even sit at the table. I wander around, gesturing and voicing and just being...me.

So when a Scene gets close, where I feel like it's going to be important or useful or immersive, I start setting up in advance, while I'm working. When the time comes, I've got the pieces ready to go on the table and I lay it out with a quick description. It's never more than a few knick-knacks on the table, and some kind of toy or another ( my players loved the Plants Vs Zombies peashooter masquerading as an AT-ST, and the lego racing skiffs I made), but it's enough to ground them right THERE, in the action. They can see it, move it, touch it.

I don't like having to take 20 minutes to set a scene either, as a player or a GM, but done rarely and for impact, it's an amazing tool. IMO.

I just clear off an area in the center of the table and start laying out stuff and say 'this is', and 'that is'...but when I have to go digging up my old case of Necromunda figures to represent bad guys, I find myself wishing for a lot more of those little stormtrooper chits

This reminds me of the reason why I typically do not use maps in EotE, I don't like breaking from the narrative to stop and set up or draw a map and lay out miniatures.

See I disagree with this. Unless everything is being done on the fly, and there isn’t much in the way of forward planning, there is no reason not to have things prepared ahead of time. I find maps important because almost all my players I’ve ever had prefer to have visual representation of what lies before their characters so they can map tactical decisions based on the layout of the terrain or building. It also helps me avoid having to describe the minutia of the scene and (more importantly) having to remember all of it to keep a consistent scene when things get chaotic. So maps, or rough visual depictions of areas my party are probably going to be in, are a very important part of my pregame planning and preparation so I can avoid slow down the tempo of the game trying to draw stuff up on the fly.

Even setting up the map isn’t hard as we just use tokens to denote the location of the party members and known locations of any NPCs. This take perhaps 30 seconds since we only need a rough estimate of distance as the game system uses an abstract method of gauging distance. It sometimes takes us longer getting the dice around than it does setting up the map. With an experienced group, and proper preparation, the interruption to the game that setting a map up imposes is negligible.

I just clear off an area in the center of the table and start laying out stuff and say 'this is', and 'that is'...but when I have to go digging up my old case of Necromunda figures to represent bad guys, I find myself wishing for a lot more of those little stormtrooper chits

This reminds me of the reason why I typically do not use maps in EotE, I don't like breaking from the narrative to stop and set up or draw a map and lay out miniatures.

See I disagree with this.

Kind of weird to disagree with someone's dislike... You might not find it takes too much time, he does.

I was more disagreeing with the implied sentiment that setting up a map and mini's takes up to much time and causes a break in flow. I was just stating that, in my own opinion, it does not when properly practiced and prepared. If kasosoe dislike using maps and mins and it works in his games, that is perfectly fine. But again, I disagreed with reason he disliked it.

edit:grammar is a thing to practice more.

I don't subscribe to the WrongBadFun nonsense hinted at here. Sometimes I run my groups completely with TOTM sometimes I like to have visual representation. It's nice to have several arrows in your quiver. Clearly if you don't like something then you shouldn't use it or do it, but spare us the right/wrong thing. I know this is the internet, but you are all smart, creative people. Step up.

But what is the point of posting opinions on the internet if you can't agrue an opposing view?

See I disagree with this. Unless everything is being done on the fly, and there isn’t much in the way of forward planning, there is no reason not to have things prepared ahead of time. I find maps important because almost all my players I’ve ever had prefer to have visual representation of what lies before their characters so they can map tactical decisions based on the layout of the terrain or building. It also helps me avoid having to describe the minutia of the scene and (more importantly) having to remember all of it to keep a consistent scene when things get chaotic. So maps, or rough visual depictions of areas my party are probably going to be in, are a very important part of my pregame planning and preparation so I can avoid slow down the tempo of the game trying to draw stuff up on the fly.

Even setting up the map isn’t hard as we just use tokens to denote the location of the party members and known locations of any NPCs. This take perhaps 30 seconds since we only need a rough estimate of distance as the game system uses an abstract method of gauging distance. It sometimes takes us longer getting the dice around than it does setting up the map. With an experienced group, and proper preparation, the interruption to the game that setting a map up imposes is negligible.

Ah. I'll expand my explanation. The reason why it takes so much time for me is because our gaming table is a relatively small coffee table in my living room. because of dice, pencils, character sheets, snacks, and scratch paper, the real estate is practically nonexistent. To ask my players to move their stuff so I can lay down a map becomes an ordeal.

I don't typically use preprinted maps for the reasons others mentioned above and I rarely draw my maps ahead of time because I don't preplan the location for an encounter, just everything else.

I should clarify, I don't dislike maps and minis in general. After all, my other usual RPG is DnD 4th edition, so I'm quite used to using them, but I like going mapless in this game.

If I gave the impression that I was accusing others that using maps and minis is having bad fun, then that was certainly not my intention.

Ah. I'll expand my explanation. The reason why it takes so much time for me is because our gaming table is a relatively small coffee table in my living room. because of dice, pencils, character sheets, snacks, and scratch paper, the real estate is practically nonexistent. To ask my players to move their stuff so I can lay down a map becomes an ordeal.

Now the lack of gaming real estate is something I can fully sympathize with. Thankfully the shops my group plays at have nice large tables and there is only 4 of us total, so thats been a non-issue lately. But yeah, even smaller maps can take up precious table space, there is no doubt of that.

But what is the point of posting opinions on the internet if you can't agrue an opposing view?

Ha. Great question. If there's a point I've never seen one.

Anywho. Fiddly bits.

I've talked about this before in another topic, but one visual element that seems to go well with the system, doesn't need any setup time, and works well not only as a narrative aid in battle, but also for an informative aid during play, is using clear plastic stands for showing NPCs, creatures, PCs, maps, or anything that fits in the stands Here's a cross-section of stands that I used when running Beyond the Rim. Not all of them, of course, just a few examples:

These are 5x7, 8.5x11, and 11x8.5 stands. I use these for adventure elements that pop up during play. For characters, I use the smaller 3x5 stands since they're smaller and take up less table space (every player has one in front of them):

In case you're wondering what these things actually are, they're just plastic sign stands you can get at Office Depot, Staples, Office Max, or any place like that. Here's a close-up:

For pictures, I use scans from the books, images from the Internet, or I just compile my own from various sources. The one above combines a background I found somewhere for Raxus Prime, with an image layer for my players' Nova Courier, and another layer with some chasing TIE fighters. Not only does it provide visuals for the players in an appropriate (I believe, anyway) format for EotE, but also gives them the impression that the adventure has been customized for them (which in many ways it has).

Anyway, just thought I'd share this idea

I'd be for them doing this, but right now I would prefer them devote their resources to producing books.

These would be great down the road.

I've talked about this before in another topic, but one visual element that seems to go well with the system, doesn't need any setup time, and works well not only as a narrative aid in battle, but also for an informative aid during play, is using clear plastic stands for showing NPCs, creatures, PCs, maps, or anything that fits in the stands Here's a cross-section of stands that I used when running Beyond the Rim. Not all of them, of course, just a few examples:

These are 5x7, 8.5x11, and 11x8.5 stands. I use these for adventure elements that pop up during play. For characters, I use the smaller 3x5 stands since they're smaller and take up less table space (every player has one in front of them):

In case you're wondering what these things actually are, they're just plastic sign stands you can get at Office Depot, Staples, Office Max, or any place like that. Here's a close-up:

For pictures, I use scans from the books, images from the Internet, or I just compile my own from various sources. The one above combines a background I found somewhere for Raxus Prime, with an image layer for my players' Nova Courier, and another layer with some chasing TIE fighters. Not only does it provide visuals for the players in an appropriate (I believe, anyway) format for EotE, but also gives them the impression that the adventure has been customized for them (which in many ways it has).

Anyway, just thought I'd share this idea

I have my Kindle full of good art images or things I've cranked on pimpmygun, etc.

So back to the topic of the actual thread (though I think the work is great btw). I shall now turn your attentions to another RPG that is not FFG but a good example I think. Catalyst Game Labs is the holder of the Shadowrun license. Let's look at how many books they have come out with since august. Core rule book a adventure book and gm screen. And we are done. They have had about 4 PDF releases and the second book is due out at the end of this month (PDF already available). The PDFs could fit into one and half of the current releases of EotE and are in my opinion not up to the standard of SR. They also just released the second mission on PDF. Mind you the first was in November I think and was supposed to be more frequent since the missions are connected.

To be honest the only rpg company that I have seen keep up with EOtE is that of white wolf back in the early 00's and they had a much larger team and were coming off from the earlier editions success. They maintained for almost a decade but now because of changes and what not they aren't quite at that speed because they shrank to about an FFG size team.

"The Year of Shadowrun" was more like the "4 Months of Shadowrun"

Yeah, to anyone who thinks EotE isn't getting a lot of support from FFG - you're wrong. The release schedule is very impressive for an RPG these days.

To be honest the only rpg company that I have seen keep up with EOtE is that of white wolf back in the early 00's and they had a much larger team and were coming off from the earlier editions success. They maintained for almost a decade but now because of changes and what not they aren't quite at that speed because they shrank to about an FFG size team.

Actually no, the reason WW/OPP don't release as much stuff anymore is because they don't need to. They've completely changed their distribution model, using PDFs and POD instead of traditional print. As a result they don't need to stay on the 'supplement treadmill' that they used to maintain (along with all the other major RPG companies). That said, they've got a very impressive release schedule, it's just you tend not to see them in the shops.

I just clear off an area in the center of the table and start laying out stuff and say 'this is', and 'that is'...but when I have to go digging up my old case of Necromunda figures to represent bad guys, I find myself wishing for a lot more of those little stormtrooper chits

This reminds me of the reason why I typically do not use maps in EotE, I don't like breaking from the narrative to stop and set up or draw a map and lay out miniatures.

See I disagree with this. Unless everything is being done on the fly, and there isn’t much in the way of forward planning, there is no reason not to have things prepared ahead of time. I find maps important because almost all my players I’ve ever had prefer to have visual representation of what lies before their characters so they can map tactical decisions based on the layout of the terrain or building. It also helps me avoid having to describe the minutia of the scene and (more importantly) having to remember all of it to keep a consistent scene when things get chaotic. So maps, or rough visual depictions of areas my party are probably going to be in, are a very important part of my pregame planning and preparation so I can avoid slow down the tempo of the game trying to draw stuff up on the fly.

Even setting up the map isn’t hard as we just use tokens to denote the location of the party members and known locations of any NPCs. This take perhaps 30 seconds since we only need a rough estimate of distance as the game system uses an abstract method of gauging distance. It sometimes takes us longer getting the dice around than it does setting up the map. With an experienced group, and proper preparation, the interruption to the game that setting a map up imposes is negligible.

EXACTLY! I mean, from some of the answers here I wonder if anyone even played the Beginner Sets. I have run the EotE Beginner set at least 3 times and you don't know how FUN it is to quickly set up the locations via the provided maps and put the characters/enemies on the maps. It's pretty darn easy to say "Yeah, this group of Stormtroopers is at medium range to your group and this one is at long range."

Also, I even went so far as to scan in and print the map of the city so that it took up 8 sheets of regular paper... it turned out to be a beautiful large map and the characters could use it to easily travel around the city, figure out how the hell to get out of it, etc.

It was brilliant.

EXACTLY! I mean, from some of the answers here I wonder if anyone even played the Beginner Sets.

I have. Loved it and now I will not use maps again.

To each his/her own...

Anyway, just thought I'd share this idea

This is ingenious. I'm totally stealing this idea and pretending with my players that it was my own.

I interrupt this thread for a maybe important announcement.....

Hey we can close the main topic of the thread as the forums have blown up over the Colonist book announcement woooooo!

You may please continue map discussions and the benefits/drawback therein of them. Thank you.

Well... It's still a roleplaying game and most RPG's these days often use them. Almost everyone I know wants to use a map and figures. They still enjoy an old fashioned "in the mind" game but they would prefer the visual representation. To a lot of people this adds to the game.

To be fair, just because "all the other RPG's are doing it" it doesn't necessarily mean that the designers of FFG's Star Wars RPG should.

That said, I'm not disagreeing with you entirely. I'm sure some people find the visual representation to be a boon, rather than a hindrance. I'm merely echoing the suggestion that the absence of maps, miniatures, tokens, pawns, et cetera may be a deliberate design decision, rather than an oversight.

While both cases can be made of having them or not, the amount of money I've spent so far for my campaigns had to go elsewhere and not to FFG. If they are ok with this and that's their plan, alrighty then.

Anyway, just thought I'd share this idea

This is ingenious. I'm totally stealing this idea and pretending with my players that it was my own.

Hey, I'm here to make you look good I also used them during an EfMS run I did at a convention. Got a lot of people coming up to the table to check out what we were doing. Spreading the EofE faith!

Well, I'll let this topic die. Other RPG's (and players) would go crazy at the idea of 200+ NPC chits for $19.95 or something as well as maps but I guess a lot of EotE players keep the abstract nature of movement in their heads (even though it translates very easily onto a map).

I like maps because it leads to less confusion in combat. i want to know my relative position in relation to other people, it does not need to be exact, but knowing where people are and where things are that i can use like cover is helpful.