FFG need to have aword with whoever words and proofreads the cards!

The War of Seasons ending card 1st paragraph is non sensical andthe game mechanic isn't clear.

1) I arrive on the CoC and put 1 dark or light fate onto the card, okay so far.

2) Then each character loses ALL of their dark and Light fate putting it onto this card. So I have just put 1 dark or light fate onto the card and now I am putting the REST of my fate along with ALL of the fate from every other character. Seems silly, why put 1 dark or light fate onto the card only to then put the rest of it on straight after. bear in mind that there is now potentially LOADS of fate piled onto this card.

Wait wait, perhaps when something doesn't feel very clear, the best thing is to calm down and read it again.

It won't have any sense to LOSE 1 dark or light fate, then LOSE the rest. That's why the first instruction is to PLACE a dark or light fate, which doesn't involve losses from anybody. They could have written "from the fate stockpile" and they would have avoided wrong interpretations from your side, and from others as well, but the card only has the space to write "Hello!". If it seems silly, probably it IS silly and it's not how the card should be read.

3) Now everyone teleports to the Forest space with no fate.

4) I now gain 1 fate and take another turn.

5) I get to the Meeting with destiny space and choose to fight oberon. Lets say that there was 7 dark fate on the card so I am now fighting a str 17 opponent!. Seems excessive.

Am I interpreting this card correctly or is this broken?

Well, the worst possible situation would be to have 6 characters in play, everybody with the highest fate value (5), everybody with full fate or that has gained more fate than his fate value, everybody with evenly distributed fate, so that there are 30 tokens, 15 dark and 15 light, so you will fight Oberon with Strength 25 or Titania with Craft 25.

I've rarely seen games where everybody has so much fate, especially in the end. We've just discussed with Uvatha about how difficult is to gain 13 fate with A Hero Rises, where all killed Enemies have you gain 1 fate as an additional reward. I think the standard for a 6-player game will be to have no more than 10 fate discarded at that point, and not necessarily evenly distributed between light and dark. The bonus fate placed by the character on the Crown should be used to hinder the others and favour himself in the type of combat he prefers.

Then, If you still think it's too difficult to beat in a single attack a Strength 17 endboss, I think you'd better keep on fighting the Ice Queen and the Eagle King. Around here every character reaching the Crown easily defeats Alternative Ending Bosses, including the not so dreadful Draconic Lords. A challenging final fight it's not so bad for me and my playing group.

Is this a revealed or hidden? If you know from the start that this is the end game, you can try to amass more Fate, of either kind. So this creates a separate campaign, but that's what the revealed do, and as some say, the Dragon expansion.

If it is hidden, that does come as quite a shock, but you still might be able to work towards it.

Also, can other players still go to the CoC after the first one? Would that change anything (other than losing more Fate, but that could be a strategy for some evil players)

The ending can be played either Revealed or Hidden.

You're right Oberon, the Ending doesn't say that characters cannot go on the Crown of Command a second time. However, it says that only the FIRST character places 1 dark or light fate etc..., then all characters lose all of their fate, etc... I think the whole paragraph is not applicable to characters reaching the Crown, except for the first one. But what happens if anybody goes there anyway, I don't know. Perhaps it's another Ending that should be houseruled to work like Pandora's Box (teleported to Plain of Peril as soon as you enter the Crown after the Ending has been triggered). Too many instructions to fit them all in, they'd better make a kind of Rule Clarification valid for all Endings.

It means everyone dumps all their fate onto the card and adds an extra LF and DF from the *stock.* Then everyone, now fateless, all meets at the Forest. The player who first reached the CoC gets a fate as a bonus and gets to make the first dash into the Woodland as they race to fight the final boss.

Everyone dumping their fate means

a) the more fate you had, the more health the bosses have,

b) eveyone starts out the race to the boss fateless, which is very bad when resolving fatebound encounters in the woodland. Except the first character who reached the CoC, he gets 1 fate.

I read it that only the character who reaces the CoC places a LF or DF onto the card thereby tactically making the fight more difficult for the other players depending on their current stats.

If there are a lot of players with fate though then you could be facing the situation of Oberon an Titania Having a Str or craft in the high teens making combat extremely difficult.

What i imagine will happen is savvy players spending unwanted fate (probably on movement) when the leading player in the inner Region is approaching the COC to limit the amount of power that Ober and Titi get.

Then there is this:

Once any character has reached the Crown of Command, any

Then there is this:

Once any character has reached the Crown of Command, any

character that gets killed is out of the game. Note that this

rule stays in effect for the rest of the game, even if a character

leaves the Crown of Command.

We now have a Bloodbath scenario situation with characters leggin it through the forest trying to bump each other off which may be easier than fighting Ober and titi. It's also possible for all characters to die what happens then? Is it an across the board loss? Or is the last character standing the winner? Just like in Bloodbath.

The rule about "the last standing Character" being the winner is an old 2nd edition rule, which is given in Black Industries Edition but not in FFG Revised Edition. If nobody is able to defeat either Oberon or Titania, nobody wins the game.

I won't be facing those bosses if I was not capable of defeating them, so it's pretty absurd that everybody gets killed and only one survives. The only thing one could complain is that in some very special situations, defeating one of the bosses would require a lot of extra time for attribute boosting and that the game has already been long enough at that point.

Here are some more of my interpretations of the ending...

First paragraph: The first character to reach the Crown places 1LF or 1DF from the stock, then all characters dump the rest of their fate onto the ending card. Oberon and Titania will have a Strength or Craft, respectively, of at least 11, plus any fate the characters added. All characters reconvene at the Forest, fateless, and the first character gets a free fate and a run towards the boss.

Second paragraph: "If there is any fate on this card" means the boss fight on the Meeting with Destiny space won't activate until someone enters the Crown of Command. The presence of fate on the card proves it has been activated and the instructions for Meeting with Destiny have changed. Thus for most of the game, the players can enter Meeting with Destiny without fighting the boss. Putting 1LF or 1DF from the stock is necessary as "proof" that the ending has been activated, moreso than giving Oberon and Titania +1S or +1C.

Entering the Crown of Command Again: The ending says. "When a character first reaches the Crown..." everyone dumps their fate and teleports to the Forest. So if the Crown is entered a second time, I don't think players dump their fate again, nor do I think anyone teleports to the Forest - as this happens only the first time. So a character who enters the Crown a second time is stuck there. He can't leave the Crown of Command (as per normal rules).

Character Death: As per normal rules, once someone reaches the Crown, death is permanent. If all characters die before Oberon or Titania is defeated, then nobody wins! It can happen that death occurs as they run through the Woodland, especially fateless. If there is only one person left, he plays solo until he satisfies the objective or dies trying and the game is a draw (as with all endings)! However this ending is unique in that the boss battle takes place outside the Crown of Command, which means characters can attack each other and kill them permanently! I think it is a very interesting new boss scenario!

This is indeed a very different unique way to bring in the end game. Potentially one in which no one can win. The ending actually punished you for having fate by making the enemies stronger.

It kinda turns the forest into a deadly arena in which the only person who has the immediate advantage is he/she who activated the war of Seasons on the CoC.

I can see some difficult decisions having to be made by players such as Should I gamble a trip into the forest fateless or try and recoup some fate first, or Shall I try and take out some players instaed of taking on Titi or Oberdude.

Evil characters have an advantage it seems due to being able to get a quick replen at the Graveyard. That would be my first choice, replen then dive into the forest.

As we get over closer to the so-called release date of August 30, I went to the upcoming tab and was shocked ~ shocked I say ~ that there was ZERO mention of The Woodland at all.

My guess is it will not be ready on August 30, at all. Wonder why they thought it would be.

It was on there when I looked, 26th item down right under the stormtrooper dice bag. I thought they were alphabetical so I probably would have looked near the bottom first if you hadn't said it wasn't there so I checked the whole list and there it was nearer to the top

When I did it yesterday I used their filter. New>board games> all status and nothing at showed.

I did the filter today, differently, not using New but all or whatever it was, then boardgames>all status

and I see it is on the boat.

Well I'm horribly disappointed since I really thought they would be here on the 30th, but I suppose I'll get over it.

at the very, very least, we should have gotten another inside look, since the last one was around the 7th, no?

Yeah I was thinking the same thing with Bloodbath had a quick skim into the rules nothing there at all about last one standing so even if you play with bloodbath I suppose you still have to keep playing until you get the "you win" rule .

"Stormtrooper dice bag" you say but they will miss the ground . "These double sixes you rolled, they are too accurate for normal people. Only imperial storm troopers are so precise"

I love these games and the publisher - however I find it lame how little involvement they have with us lowly fans. A developer, or even an aid, could settle so many of the issues very quickly and it would do us all a service...

"Dont worry ya'll, were shooting from this date..."

"We intended to play the alternate ending like this..."

etc...

I have heard people contact the company directly for rule clarifications and get answers. They also have made new FAQ's in the past...

I don't think FFG is unresponsive to Talisman fans:

"why" we have 2 sided Fate and how this can really change things; options, play etc has finally been addressed after many people asking the question.

Wanderlust, is the first ending or mechanic even that requires all 4 corners. Previously it seemed, and certain players contend (that officially) most expansions can be used without others. Some fans, like me, have very much desired scenarios or dynamics/mechanics that allowed / transcended this concept. Wanderlust is for people like me who want more integration and options between the regions and other aspects of the game.

I don't think FFG is unresponsive to Talisman fans:

"why" we have 2 sided Fate and how this can really change things; options, play etc has finally been addressed after many people asking the question.

Wanderlust, is the first ending or mechanic even that requires all 4 corners. Previously it seemed, and certain players contend (that officially) most expansions can be used without others. Some fans, like me, have very much desired scenarios or dynamics/mechanics that allowed / transcended this concept. Wanderlust is for people like me who want more integration and options between the regions and other aspects of the game.

I can testify that I was quite surprised back in the day when I saw Quest Rewards in Sacred Pool expansion. In the previous months, I strongly requested new reasons to go on a Warlock Quest besides gaining a Talisman. FFG staff reads this board for sure, even though they decided not to interact directly with fans.

As for Woodland release date, seeing that Amazon has no preorder options makes me think that we have to wait some more weeks. September is still Q3 2014, after all. It's just too bad we had no more previews after Gen Con, they made us think that the time had come.

Yes FFG does read these boards, I have been contacted by the company due to my participation on these forums.

FRP Games had it as Aug 30th release...alas, now showing September 30th!

http://www.frpgames.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=103087#.VAZWDChZuuR

Alas, indeed. I felt, recently, like I would just avoid posting anything (but you all know that is impossible for me!) but if I found a modicum of fairness or empathy within me I would say that this expansion seems to have so much detail and ... stuff, that they over estimated the stages of development.

Doesn't help and most of us are true believers and will purchase anyway. I don't feel cheated, just challenged, to be patient.

Why don't we start a new speculative thread on where the game most likely goes in the future.

Edit! Looks like I've started the 13th page. For a Witch that is lucky. So Mote it BE!

For the record, I wasn't at all trying bad mouth company, I think they make great games and spent my fair share of gold on FF games - and will continue to. I own every Talisman expansion so far! I just find that good FAQs and explanations for more complex interactions to be lacking - and thats true for most games that have lots of expansions.

It is clear that we need clarification on some rules and interactions, timing foibles between various cards and effects.

I suspect or hope that with the actual fulfillment of the game-board - the 4 regions always mentioned from the beginning as surrounding the main 'scape of the realm - a suitable pause between any possible expansions, big, small and POD would take place. The feedback from players now working with all possible encounters and conditions will give FFG a good grasp to sorting it all out.

New update! Finally! This on talks about Destiny and Light and Dark Fate!

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=5033

New update! Finally! This on talks about Destiny and Light and Dark Fate!

Light and Dark Fate? It talks about Paths and Destinies!

Excellent preview. Destinies are powerful rewards, and Secret Path suggests that not every Path card will give you a Destiny once you get to the last space of the Woodland (Meeting With Destiny). Interesting. I think there's only need for the Woodland to be released now!

I think there's only need for the Woodland to be released now!

Agreed - Make it so!

Well, we gotta wait fellow posters! This one barely whet my appetite. But I would recommend that there is one or two more and we might see them much quicker that it took for this one to come out.

I love the artwork they're showing. I'm sure there are still some interesting twists we will see.

Amazon UK have the publication date for Woodland as 24 Sept.

Could also be release date!

Just noticed this from the latest preview: you must choose a Path from one of three laid out before you

but the first preview mentions a Runebound path. So I guess this means there are more than 3 paths, but only 3 are available when you enter the woodland (one taken, one new one placed?)

Just noticed this from the latest preview: you must choose a Path from one of three laid out before you

but the first preview mentions a Runebound path. So I guess this means there are more than 3 paths, but only 3 are available when you enter the woodland (one taken, one new one placed?)

Yes, I think it will be a similar mechanic to city and Wanted posters where 3 are avail at any time.

Nice system, you get to choose what is most appropriate for your character.

Oberon did you say you are a witch earlier?

I find that kind of thing very interesting