It almost seems to me you have to say, I'll use advanced sensors and decloak,

And that is using a queue, which, as I said, neatly precludes a double decloak (and is almost certainly how the designers intend it. But if that is NOT how it works and you instead cycle through a loop of trigger-effect, trigger-effect, trigger-effect, then it could allow it.

I am more excited for Echo than anything else in Wave 4. Echo + Veteran Instincts + Fire Control System + Recon Specialist + Advanced Cloaking Device is going to be just too much fun--although you'll have to make sure the other 60 points of your squad are threatening enough to make your opponent hesitate to engage fully with the flank attack from Echo.

This is a lot of debate over something that's just going to be one-shot by an Opportunistic Ibtisan wielding a HLC.

I am more excited for Echo than anything else in Wave 4. Echo + Veteran Instincts + Fire Control System + Recon Specialist + Advanced Cloaking Device is going to be just too much fun--although you'll have to make sure the other 60 points of your squad are threatening enough to make your opponent hesitate to engage fully with the flank attack from Echo.

"There are FOUR ships!"

Echo + VI + FCS + RecSpec + ACD

Vessery + VI

2x AP

Pumped for both pilots and advanced cloaking device.

Also, would 'The Phantom Menace' been a better headline? lol

"A ship may spend a cloak token to DECLOAK immediately before revealing its maneuver dial ."

The fact that you're spending a token for the effect doesn't remove the trigger there. You only get the option to spend the token once, because of the once-per-trigger rule.

This is a lot of debate over something that's just going to be one-shot by an Opportunistic Ibtisan wielding a HLC.

I'm a lot more worried about Chewie + Opportunist, personally.

This is a lot of debate over something that's just going to be one-shot by an Opportunistic Ibtisan wielding a HLC.

The odds there are very low. Just saying. I mean first she's gotta get them in arc without a focus token. Then she's gotta net 4 hits when they got no evades or 5 hits and they get one... Good luck.

"A ship may spend a cloak token to DECLOAK immediately before revealing its maneuver dial ."

The fact that you're spending a token for the effect doesn't remove the trigger there. You only get the option to spend the token once, because of the once-per-trigger rule.

We don't know that in regards to tokens. Is a token removal a game effect? Is removing a token a trigger for the game effect? We don't know.

I am quite certain you can spend two evade tokens against one attack. (Ignore the detail that I cannot think of any way to have two evade tokens.)

"A ship may spend a cloak token to DECLOAK immediately before revealing its maneuver dial ."

The fact that you're spending a token for the effect doesn't remove the trigger there. You only get the option to spend the token once, because of the once-per-trigger rule.

We don't know that in regards to tokens. Is a token removal a game effect? Is removing a token a trigger for the game effect? We don't know.

I am quite certain you can spend two evade tokens against one attack. (Ignore the detail that I cannot think of any way to have two evade tokens.)

I am surprised no one has mentioned using outmaneuver on echo or whisper. I realize that you want a higher pilot skill for Advanced cloaking device but what ship is more capable of always being out of arc? 4 attack dice with your opponent rolling one less defense dice is no small feat.

Also I know it was discussed in the phantom speculation thread but did we ever figure out if you could use advanced sensors to cloak and then decloak in the same round? I don't mean decloak, cloak, decloak, but just cloak and decloak in the same round.

If you read the FAQ vis-a-vis Yorr, there's a pretty clear distinction between an effect that results from a cost being paid, and an effect that results indirectly from a trigger. Decloaking strikes me as an example of the former.

Remember that a trigger effect is conditional, so it will likely have 'if' or 'when' imbedded in the text.

I know it's most likely not going to end up anywhere, but now I want to build a 2 ship squad.

Echo

VI

Sensor Jammer

Gunner

ACD

Rexler Brath

Opportunist

HLC

Shield Upgrade

Hit them hard, hit them brutally hard.

Also I know it was discussed in the phantom speculation thread but did we ever figure out if you could use advanced sensors to cloak and then decloak in the same round? I don't mean decloak, cloak, decloak, but just cloak and decloak in the same round.

fundamentally that is the same question. Do you trigger all the "before the reveal" effects at once and then resolve them in order, or do you trigger and resolve them one at a time. If the former, can you declare you are decloaking before you are cloaked, assuming that you will have the cloak token by the time you need to discard it?

Also I know it was discussed in the phantom speculation thread but did we ever figure out if you could use advanced sensors to cloak and then decloak in the same round? I don't mean decloak, cloak, decloak, but just cloak and decloak in the same round.

I do not think we have a definite answer to that.

If decloak-cloak-decloak does not work because you go back in time to use the trigger again, cloak-decloak does not work for the same reason. If decloak-cloak-decloak does not work because you cannot decloak twice, cloak-decloak works. We do not know.

Edit:

Or maybe decloak-cloak-decloak works. Then cloak-decloak works as well.

Even that wouldn't be solid proof as the trigger could be per attack dice theoretically.

No, it would be per attack, that's already pretty well established. You get an evade token that you can spend as part of the attack process, there's nothing that even hints at it being per attack die.

But it doesn't change the fact we have little(really no) actual precedent to work off of with this beyond the reaction to ionization.

I disagree, the FAQ entry covers this pretty nicely.

It says abilities which would cover anything in the game, actions, tokens, ect... You only get one opportunity to decloak. The fact that it involves a token doesn't really change anything.

I'm not sure if all the possibilities will make me really excited or just give me a really big headache as I try to wrap my brain around it, lol.

One thing is for sure, however: the "jam" action of huge ships is going to make me want to keep that phantom far away from them (along with the possibility of being crushed, that is).

Also I know it was discussed in the phantom speculation thread but did we ever figure out if you could use advanced sensors to cloak and then decloak in the same round? I don't mean decloak, cloak, decloak, but just cloak and decloak in the same round.

I do not think we have a definite answer to that.

If decloak-cloak-decloak does not work because you go back in time to use the trigger again, cloak-decloak does not work for the same reason. If decloak-cloak-decloak does not work because you cannot decloak twice, cloak-decloak works. We do not know.

Edit:

Or maybe decloak-cloak-decloak works. Then cloak-decloak works as well.

Unless the reason decloak cloak decloak doesn't work is that you can only decloak once per trigger.

I'm pretty certain double Decloak is not going to be allowed to happen. We just have to see what logic they use to explain it. If they do.

I can't see any reason why cloak-decloak using advanced sensors wouldn't work.

If you start your turn de-cloaked, advanced sensors would let you cloak, then decloak immediately before revealing your maneuver dial. They are both specified as immediately before you reveal your dial and you get to choose the order in that case. It's nifty but for a point more, you can just buy the advanced cloaking device and be cloaked against everything that shoots after you, and not waste next turn's action just to re-cloak before you move.

Trying to loop through multiple cloaks and decloaks before you move seems way out there though. Definitely falls into the category of "don't do it until FFG specifically says you can."

If you start your turn de-cloaked, advanced sensors would let you cloak, then decloak immediately before revealing your maneuver dial. They are both specified as immediately before you reveal your dial and you get to choose the order in that case. It's nifty but for a point more, you can just buy the advanced cloaking device and be cloaked against everything that shoots after you, and not waste next turn's action just to re-cloak before you move.

I was thinking more along the lines of using advanced sensors and stygium particle accelerator to get the movement boost and a evade token with either signma or shadow squadron.

If you start your turn de-cloaked, advanced sensors would let you cloak, then decloak immediately before revealing your maneuver dial. They are both specified as immediately before you reveal your dial and you get to choose the order in that case. It's nifty but for a point more, you can just buy the advanced cloaking device and be cloaked against everything that shoots after you, and not waste next turn's action just to re-cloak before you move.

I was thinking more along the lines of using advanced sensors and stygium particle accelerator to get the movement boost and a evade token with either signma or shadow squadron.

Ahh, fair enough. Kinda like a poor man's PtL

And Lorrir went with Maarek to that lonely, dark, corner... To cry together.

The phantom makes me more hot than the Defender by far.

Perhaps it is just me, but with the Defender I got that sensation... The sensation when your girlfirend gives you a shirt you don't like. Yes, it is a present, you should be grateful and all, you smile... But not matter what, that shirt has something you cannot fully explain, but you don't like it... And the worst part is that you have to wear it from time to time to not hurt her feelings...

And Lorrir went with Maarek to that lonely, dark, corner... To cry together.

Actually Maarek could see some use in Epic fights, his ability could be quite handy against the Huge ships. Pull 3 of a 10 card deck gives you pretty good odds.

If you start your turn de-cloaked, advanced sensors would let you cloak, then decloak immediately before revealing your maneuver dial. They are both specified as immediately before you reveal your dial and you get to choose the order in that case. It's nifty but for a point more, you can just buy the advanced cloaking device and be cloaked against everything that shoots after you, and not waste next turn's action just to re-cloak before you move.

I was thinking more along the lines of using advanced sensors and stygium particle accelerator to get the movement boost and a evade token with either signma or shadow squadron.

Ahh, fair enough. Kinda like a poor man's PtL

Basically I think 2 dice and an evade is sorta on par with 4 dice. That and if I am feeling super daring I could in theory move 7 forward on the first turn and get behind my opponent on the second.