Because Echo is a female figure in Greek Myth.

And Echo is also a clone's name in The Clone Wars. The clones were decidedly male.

But given the way clones are designated and name each other, It's probably just that his code starts with E and they were using the phonetic alphabet.

And let's be fair, Most people think of the sound phenomenon named for echo before they think of her.

Quite sure as I watched the episode just yesterday.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/CT-21-0408

Just numbers in his designation. He was called echo for his tendency to repeat orders.

I have met several women named Echo, and no men. That said, FFG used a male pronoun so that's settled, yes?

Anyway. I flew against Whisper using what I knew going into it would not be a great matchup. But I wanted to see how (s)he would do. His list was:

Whisper: VI, ACD

Soontir: PtL, Stealth Device

Delta Defender

Mine was:

Rookie: Shield Upgrade

Rookie: Shield Upgrade

Blue: Advanced Sensors

Roark: Ion turret, Intelligence Agent

Roark was definitely my most valuable asset but the game wasn't even close. Whisper's ability to decloak to react to my moves, then recloak before I could shoot made her(?) impossible to hit. I very rarely even had her in my sights. I spent most of the game pouring fire into the defender but I just couldn't hit for a ****, and my opponent rolled his way out of most of my attacks.

My takeaway from it is phantoms live or die based on their PS. I don't think the PS 3 version will be very good. Too much guesswork involved in piloting that version correctly. The PS 5 might be okay, but it depends on what it faces. Elite builds will make it as difficult to use as the PS 3, just for more points. Echo and Whisper absolutely require a high PS ship to counter them. Otherwise, with decloak and barrel roll, they've just got too much board control. They're fragile, but if they get to play a reactionary game, you will have a hard time shooting them at all.

Jake Farrell with VI is going to find his way into most of my lists once phantoms are in play. High PS E-Wings (depending on their dial) and, to a lesser extent, B-Wings will be good too. But if a phantom is on the table and higher PS than your ships, you are in for a very tough battle.

Both choices feel to me like they're sneaky long before they're male or female.

Whisper does tend to sound female if you have no context. But in this context I don't think it carries nearly as much weight.

Whisper, Shadow, Echo, Phantom all sound sneaky, stealthy and sorta spooky.

Because Echo is a female figure in Greek Myth.

I get that. But my whole post was about this line...

Her(yes I know FFg thinks its a him)

Tanarri, seems to be stating that FFG got it wrong, that Echo is actually a she, but they mistakenly said he.

When I started playing X-Wing I didn't know that Howlrunner was a girl, and I know I'm not the only one. So in that case when people refer to her as a him, I and others correct them.

But in this case "Echo" didn't exist until FFG made that card, at least as far as I can tell. So the gender is what ever FFG sets. If someone can point me to something for "Echo" that existed prior to FFG's card then cool. Otherwise you have someone apparently saying that FFG is using the wrong gender pronoun for a character that they created.

I feel a intense burning apathy towards the gender of the pilots in this game, so it makes no difference to me if Whisper is a he or she. Although given the overwhelming % of Imperial Naval personal being male, if I were to assume gender I'd assume male just because the odds are in my favor that way.

Both choices feel to me like they're sneaky long before they're male or female.

Whisper does tend to sound female if you have no context. But in this context I don't think it carries nearly as much weight.

Whisper, Shadow, Echo, Phantom all sound sneaky, stealthy and sorta spooky.

Because Echo is a female figure in Greek Myth.

I get that. But my whole post was about this line...

Her(yes I know FFg thinks its a him)

Tanarri, seems to be stating that FFG got it wrong, that Echo is actually a she, but they mistakenly said he.

When I started playing X-Wing I didn't know that Howlrunner was a girl, and I know I'm not the only one. So in that case when people refer to her as a him, I and others correct them.

But in this case "Echo" didn't exist until FFG made that card, at least as far as I can tell. So the gender is what ever FFG sets. If someone can point me to something for "Echo" that existed prior to FFG's card then cool. Otherwise you have someone apparently saying that FFG is using the wrong gender pronoun for a character that they created.

I feel a intense burning apathy towards the gender of the pilots in this game, so it makes no difference to me if Whisper is a he or she. Although given the overwhelming % of Imperial Naval personal being male, if I were to assume gender I'd assume male just because the odds are in my favor that way.

I was siding with vorpal saying echo was a she. I know most imperials are male, however both named phantom pilots I assumed were girls due to their names, I saw echo clicked the card and stopped reading the article for a bit so I didn't get to the part where it says that echo is a he right away, though I knew by the time I posted.

As we do not know the gender of "Whisper", I am going to assume female until told otherwise.

Guys, guys. Come on. This is a brave new world we live in. Men can be women, and women can be men - sometimes both at the same time. All we're doing is giving poor Echo gender identity issues when we should be supporting his/her life choices.

As the famed pilot "Bard" once said, 'What's in a name? that which we call a cloak / By any other name would bank as sweet.'

Guys, guys. Come on. This is a brave new world we live in. Men can be women, and women can be men - sometimes both at the same time. All we're doing is giving poor Echo gender identity issues when we should be supporting his/her life choices.

As the famed pilot "Bard" once said, 'What's in a name? that which we call a cloak / By any other name would bank as sweet.'

**** you WonderWAAGH, now I have to go listen to "Lola" by the kinks.

**** you WonderWAAGH, now I have to go listen to "Lola" by the kinks.

Or Yoda by Weird Al...

I am a man - and my callsign is Splendor... I work with a Sunshine, I know a Rainbow... All men. I know female pilots whose callsigns are Bruiser, and Charlie... It's in the realm of possibility that Whisper and Echo are men, even if their callsigns aren't maverick and iceman.

Whisper should be renamed "Chiggy Von Richthofen".

and my point has always been that ACD simply won't be as popular as some people think it will.

This all started because someone said that they considered the ACD such an auto-include that they will treat Phantoms as if they simply cost 4 more points.

I don't know how useful it will be on generics, I think the higher the PS the more effective it will be, but even then you might find on even Echo or Whisper those 4 points are better spent elsewhere.

ACD isn't going to be auto-include on ALL Phantoms; only on high PS Phantoms. For lower skill phantoms SPA is probably worth picking up for 2 points instead.

Key points:

1. ACD doubles the ship's durability, on average, if you recloak before getting shot at. 4 points to double the durability of a 25-32 point ship is an exceptionally good deal.
2. Without ACD the Phantom will joust (on average) about the same as a TIE Interceptor (88%).
3. Ignoring the points dumped into the PS bid, with ACD the Phantom will joust almost as well as a TIE Fighter supported by Howlrunner (110% vs 100% for a TIE Fighter vs 117% for a TIE + Howlrunner).
4. You don't have to joust with it, and probably won't even if you could. The decloack move is huge, literally and figuratively.

• The dial looks very good. It has all 3 turns, white.
• Cloaking does not appear to go away if you get hit, which is a big deal.
• Stygium particle accelerator is an amazing buy at 2 points. If you use it once then you just spent 2 points instead of 3 or 4 for a hull / shield upgrade.
• Advanced Cloaking Device is REALLY good at only 4 points. Against lower PS pilots this lets you stay at 4/4/2/2, rather than 4/2/2/2. This doubles your durability. Average jousting numbers are below.

OK, jousting math, looking at just 4/2/2/2 and 4/4/2/2 stat lines. Assumptions:

• 4 attack dice = 2.58x average damage relative to 2 attack dice
• 4 defense dice = 1.42x damage mitigation relative to 3 defense dice
• 2 defense dice = 0.71x damage mitigation relative to 3 defense dice

Values at PS1 compared to a PS1 TIE Fighter

4/2/2/2: 12*(2.58*0.71*(1.25*2 + 2)/3)^0.52 = 20.3

4/2/2/2: 12*(2.58*1.42*(1.25*2 + 2)/3)^0.52 = 29.1

baseline PS1 cost: 23 (25-2). Jousting efficiency: 88% (not great; don't joust)

baseline PS1 cost with Advanced cloaking: 23+4 = 27. Jousting efficiency: 110% (Go ahead and joust if you have to, but pray to the dice gods with only 4 hull / shields.)

Only drawback: Advanced Cloaking only works if you are a higher PS, so you are forced into spending points on a PS bid. So it's not a straightforward comparison. Realistically you are looking at 37 points for Whisper + VI + Advanced Cloaking. If you want to go really crazy and be nigh-killable, then add Recon Specialist and Advanced Sensors for a total of 43 points. I would much rather spend 43 points on that setup than on any TIE Defender.

Edit:

TL;DR: Advanced cloaking doubles the ship's expected durability. For higher PS Phantom pilots this is AUTO-INCLUDE. For lower PS pilots Stygium Particle Accelerator is also an amazing buy at 2 points. Either one or the other should be AUTO-INCLUDE for every single TIE Phantom, unless you want to try something silly like 4 PS3 Phantoms.

For me the Phantom is the best new ship. I love everything about it.

Guys, guys. Come on. This is a brave new world we live in. Men can be women, and women can be men - sometimes both at the same time. All we're doing is giving poor Echo gender identity issues when we should be supporting his/her life choices.

As the famed pilot "Bard" once said, 'What's in a name? that which we call a cloak / By any other name would bank as sweet.'

**** you WonderWAAGH, now I have to go listen to "Lola" by the kinks.

Don't think it wasn't going through my head when I wrote that.

Even if you shoot last, ACD gives you the extra long barrel roll next round. That alone may be worth 4 points.

That is a good point, but for me the value is in the auto-reclock saving you an action.

I am a man - and my callsign is Splendor... I work with a Sunshine, I know a Rainbow... All men. I know female pilots whose callsigns are Bruiser, and Charlie... It's in the realm of possibility that Whisper and Echo are men, even if their callsigns aren't maverick and iceman.

Well, the only real requirement for callsigns as far as I know is that they be unique enough to be recognizable over a radio channel, with a secondary purpose of being both commemorative and at least mildly insulting. Of course an actual aviator would know more about it than I do.

Even if you shoot last, ACD gives you the extra long barrel roll next round. That alone may be worth 4 points.

That is a good point, but for me the value is in the auto-reclock saving you an action.

Well, let's put it this way: a modification that said "At the start of the End phase, you may perform a free cloak action" would be good because it means you can decloak during your activation and get that extra-large barrel roll/boost. But it wouldn't be worth 4 points, because in order to get that displacement you have to survive the round--and any ship that costs 25 points for the cheapest pilot, with 2 Agility and 4 hit points, actually isn't all that likely to do so.

Basically, a 29-point ship that is no more durable than a 12-point Headhunter is, to my way of thinking, wasting 17 points regardless of how many free actions it gets.

Again, it depends on what you are facing. That 29 pt ship will be tougher to kill against the standard TIE swarm than against a 3 ship high PS squad. What pilots and the value of the Advanced Cloaking Device is dependent on the local meta.

But it wouldn't be worth 4 points, because in order to get that displacement you have to survive the round--and any ship that costs 25 points for the cheapest pilot, with 2 Agility and 4 hit points, actually isn't all that likely to do so.

That's going to depend a lot on the local meta.

At PS3, it will fire and cloak before any of the commonly used PS1 and 2 generics. Take that ship against the typical Tie Swarm and you'll have 1 ship that shoots before it cloaks again.

Myself against a Tie Swarm I'd rather have 4 agl then a single evade.

I think this could be a "standard" 3 Phantom list:

99 points

Whisper + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device (37)

2x Shadow Squadron Pilots + Advanced Cloaking Device (2x31)

Obvious Achilles heel: PS6!

But it wouldn't be worth 4 points, because in order to get that displacement you have to survive the round--and any ship that costs 25 points for the cheapest pilot, with 2 Agility and 4 hit points, actually isn't all that likely to do so.

That's going to depend a lot on the local meta.

At PS3, it will fire and cloak before any of the commonly used PS1 and 2 generics. Take that ship against the typical Tie Swarm and you'll have 1 ship that shoots before it cloaks again.

Myself against a Tie Swarm I'd rather have 4 agl then a single evade.

True, a group of Phantoms with ACD >> "standard" TIE swarm. But there are PS 4 and even PS6 swarms going around now, and a lot of Rebel lists that can manage PS4+ with multiple ships. So IMO, most competitive lists will pose a serious and possibly insuperable problem for the Phantoms.

I think this could be a "standard" 3 Phantom list:

99 points

Whisper + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device (37)

2x Shadow Squadron Pilots + Advanced Cloaking Device (2x31)

Obvious Achilles heel: PS6!

Personally, I don't think homogeneous Phantom lists are going to succeed very well; it's a ship with a rather large weakness, and using three of them makes that weakness uniform. You'll slap the stuffing out of lists where everything is on PS1-4, but elite pilots will be obstacles (and Lando and Chewie will be very large ones).

But I like the idea of spending 30-40 points on a Phantom and 60-70 points on something else: a trio of Interceptors, a Firespray and a couple of escort fighters, a couple of Bombers loaded for bear, etc. Force an opponent to either engage with the Phantom and be set upon by the rest of the list (while the Phantom dodges and turtles), or engage with the rest of the list and be outflanked by the Phantom.

Like the Z-95 countering TIE Swarms, I think the Phantom will counter XXBB (probably not a hard counter since of course XXBB is fairly balanced compared to some other onetrick ponies out there) The PS bid, maneuverability, and just 4 attack VS the B-Wings 1 hull. Of course I still expect people to use XXBB, and TIE Swarms but i think as a whole FFG is trying to make people think about breaking up the monotony of the "power builds" because who wants to go to a tournament where everyone has XXBB, a TIE swarm or Han Shoots First build.

if only ACD wasn't a mod so you could put an Engine upgrade on a phantom

if only ACD wasn't a mod so you could put an Engine upgrade on a phantom

I don't think the Phantom needs it, since it gets a large forward boost or a massive barrel roll when it decloaks--and I think it's a more interesting choice not to have boost available in addition to the existing cloak.

I think this could be a "standard" 3 Phantom list:

99 points

Whisper + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device (37)

2x Shadow Squadron Pilots + Advanced Cloaking Device (2x31)

Obvious Achilles heel: PS6!

Personally, I don't think homogeneous Phantom lists are going to succeed very well; it's a ship with a rather large weakness, and using three of them makes that weakness uniform. You'll slap the stuffing out of lists where everything is on PS1-4, but elite pilots will be obstacles (and Lando and Chewie will be very large ones).

I agree. But if one is inclined to run pure Phantoms, then this is as good a list as any.

if only ACD wasn't a mod so you could put an Engine upgrade on a phantom

I don't think the Phantom needs it, since it gets a large forward boost or a massive barrel roll when it decloaks--and I think it's a more interesting choice not to have boost available in addition to the existing cloak.

You thought I was in front of you. But I'm way way behind you.