At PS5, I think you're gambling with ACD. Half the lists you face will have lower PS ships, the other half will have higher. Is 4 points for an extra action and the chance to be cloaked while being fired at worth it? This is going to be another one of those wait and see scenarios, but I, personally, don't expect to see a lot of ACDs. Time will tell.
Edited by WonderWAAAGHPhantom
At PS5, I think you're gambling with ACD. Half the lists you face will have lower PS ships, the other half will have higher. Is 4 points for an extra action and the chance to be cloaked while being fired at worth it? This is going to be another one of those wait and see scenarios, but I, personally, don't expect to see a lot of ACDs. Time will tell.
I tend to agree with you here. The cheaper SPA makes more sense. But, for a PS 7, 8, or 9 pilot who shoots first and then can cloak before return fire... that might be a different story.
At PS5, I think you're gambling with ACD. Half the lists you face will have lower PS ships, the other half will have higher.
No. The meta is hugely in favor of lower pilot skill at the moment. Even if you run into someone like Wedge or Vader, the rest of the list is going to be bellow you.
At PS5, I think you're gambling with ACD. Half the lists you face will have lower PS ships, the other half will have higher.
No. The meta is hugely in favor of lower pilot skill at the moment. Even if you run into someone like Wedge or Vader, the rest of the list is going to be bellow you.
The Phantom isn't in the current meta. The next best thing to prescience would be examining the ship in a vacuum (no pun intended), which doesn't do the low PS Phantom + ACD combo much credit. We have to wait and see.
Edited by WonderWAAAGHEven if you shoot last, ACD gives you the extra long barrel roll next round. That alone may be worth 4 points.
An extra long barrel roll might be worth 4 points on any other ship (compare it to Engine Upgrade or Expert Handling), but on the Phantom you're paying 4 points to do something your ship can already do, only as an extra action instead.
Edited by WonderWAAAGHBetween Predator and the Phantom, Pilot Skill bid is an important factor to take into account when building a list. As always, Pilot Skill bid requires a knowledge of your local meta. The fact that it really hurts the swarm alone will make the Phantom builds popular.
As popular as Flight Instructor, no doubt.
At PS5, I think you're gambling with ACD. Half the lists you face will have lower PS ships, the other half will have higher. Is 4 points for an extra action and the chance to be cloaked while being fired at worth it? This is going to be another one of those wait and see scenarios, but I, personally, don't expect to see a lot of ACDs. Time will tell.
1 point intelligence agents can go a long way to deciding to decloak or not. (Maybe I'm getting the order wrong)
At PS5, I think you're gambling with ACD. Half the lists you face will have lower PS ships, the other half will have higher. Is 4 points for an extra action and the chance to be cloaked while being fired at worth it? This is going to be another one of those wait and see scenarios, but I, personally, don't expect to see a lot of ACDs. Time will tell.
1 point intelligence agents can go a long way to deciding to decloak or not. (Maybe I'm getting the order wrong)
Sure, but if that's the case why bother with ACD at all? If you're confident that you won't be in a position to get fired at (i.e. out of arcs), then cloaking just becomes a glorified boost action.
Umm, because with Advanced Cloaking Device, you get a much needed defense boost, along with some extra movement. And don't discount the glorified boost. What can essentially be a 7 K-turn can surprise people who are moving up slowly.
Again, all things you get on a standard Phantom. We're not discussing what cloak brings to the table, we're talking about paying 4 points to do it for free.
Edited by WonderWAAAGHAt PS5, I think you're gambling with ACD. Half the lists you face will have lower PS ships, the other half will have higher. Is 4 points for an extra action and the chance to be cloaked while being fired at worth it? This is going to be another one of those wait and see scenarios, but I, personally, don't expect to see a lot of ACDs. Time will tell.
Just an example, but if you look at this regional: http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/105481-bellevue-nebraska-regional-recap/
Way more than half the list are entirely comprised of 1-4 ps pilots. Others maybe have 1 or 2 named pilots with higher than 5 ps. Time will tell, but the current meta is quantity over quality.
Edited by Jo JoAlright, let me clarify. When I say "half the lists will have lower PS ships, the other half will have higher," I'm making a generalization about where PS5 fits within the entire PS spectrum - it's pretty much right in the middle. Making observations about how the Phantom would fit unto the current meta is a fruitless endeavor, because it won't be in the current meta.
If we want to start predicting the next meta, that's a whole different ball of wax. I've been theorizing for months that FFG is pushing us towards fielding fewer, more expensive ships. If the future meta plays out that way, low PS Phantoms with ACD will be at a disadvantage.
Edited by WonderWAAAGH4 pts to do it for free after you attack. Which can be pretty good if you have a higher pilot skill. Being a 4-4-2-2 ship is more impressive than being 4-2-2-2
4 pts to do it for free after you attack. Which can be pretty good if you have a higher pilot skill. Being a 4-4-2-2 ship is more impressive than being 4-2-2-2
Absolutely, there's no question about that. Whisper + ACD will be a deadly foe. I have my qualms about low PS Phantoms with Advanced Cloaking Device, however.
Even if you assume lists split evenly between high/low PS (which they're not), that doesn't mean the number of ships you're going to face above/below 5 will be even. Lower-PS lists will have more ships, and more attacks. Over the course of a multi-game event, you're very likely to take shots from far more lower PS pilots than aces.
I don't happen to think cramming 3 Phantoms into one list is going to be the best way to go, but ACD will still have utility even if it doesn't mean that you're cloaked every time someone takes a shot at you.
In a world of Advanced Sensors and Push the Limits, 4 points for some 'utility' may be a hard sell.
Edited by WonderWAAAGHAlright, let me clarify. When I say "half the lists will have lower PS ships, the other half will have higher," I'm making a generalization about where PS5 fits within the entire PS spectrum - it's pretty much right in the middle. Making observations about how the Phantom would fit unto the current meta is a fruitless endeavor, because it won't be in the current meta.
If we want to start predicting the next meta, that's a whole different ball of wax. I've been theorizing for months that FFG is pushing us towards fielding fewer, more expensive ships. If the future meta plays out that way, low PS Phantoms with ACD will be at a disadvantage.
I get what you are saying. ACD might not give you as much bang for your buck vs. SPA on the lower PS phantoms, but I don't think its a waste. It will allow you to have more flexiblity and maneuver chances on your next turn. What you need to do is make sure your lower PS phantom isn't his best shot. Keep it at range while you throw your other ships in on him close.
I get what you are saying. ACD might not give you as much bang for your buck vs. SPA on the lower PS phantoms, but I don't think its a waste. It will allow you to have more flexiblity and maneuver chances on your next turn. What you need to do is make sure your lower PS phantom isn't his best shot. Keep it at range while you throw your other ships in on him close.
Right, and I'm not saying it's a waste either, though the value of what you get for those 4 points remains debatable. Somehow these conversations get twisted to the point where people think a card or ship is being dismissed outright, and my point has always been that ACD simply won't be as popular as some people think it will. ACD is best used on ships that can fire and stay cloaked while being fired at, and not all Phantoms will be capable of that.
Edited by WonderWAAAGHAbsolutely, there's no question about that. Whisper + ACD will be a deadly foe. I have my qualms about low PS Phantoms with Advanced Cloaking Device, however.
Has anyone been arguing putting ACD onto the low PS Phantoms? All the talk I have read has been solidly ACDs on high PS pilots, SPA on low ones. I guess I could see a debate on what constitutes high and low in this context, but I didn't see anyone suggesting putting ACD on the bottom rung phantom.
Of course, i could have missed something.
and my point has always been that ACD simply won't be as popular as some people think it will.
This all started because someone said that they considered the ACD such an auto-include that they will treat Phantoms as if they simply cost 4 more points.
I don't know how useful it will be on generics, I think the higher the PS the more effective it will be, but even then you might find on even Echo or Whisper those 4 points are better spent elsewhere.
Absolutely, there's no question about that. Whisper + ACD will be a deadly foe. I have my qualms about low PS Phantoms with Advanced Cloaking Device, however.
Has anyone been arguing putting ACD onto the low PS Phantoms? All the talk I have read has been solidly ACDs on high PS pilots, SPA on low ones. I guess I could see a debate on what constitutes high and low in this context, but I didn't see anyone suggesting putting ACD on the bottom rung phantom.
Of course, i could have missed something.
Yes and no. It originates with my response to comment #284, and the rest just sort of devolved into theorycrafting.
Edited by WonderWAAAGH
and my point has always been that ACD simply won't be as popular as some people think it will.
This all started because someone said that they considered the ACD such an auto-include that they will treat Phantoms as if they simply cost 4 more points.
I don't know how useful it will be on generics, I think the higher the PS the more effective it will be, but even then you might find on even Echo or Whisper those 4 points are better spent elsewhere.
I think ACD is an auto include on echo. Her(yes I know FFg thinks its a him) pilot ability depends on her decloaking, and you are paying 3 points over a shadow squadron to have that ability. The more use you can get out of that ability the better it is, and if you can get it to go off for free all the better. Its also the only way to not have to really lose an attack which is also key.
I wouldn't want to run whisper without a ACD but her ability isn't dependent upon cloaking or decloaking though it is much better if you can cloak after you attack. So I could see it being left off of her.
Shadow Squadron could go either way if the average PS of the meta doesn't change I think we will see our fair share of them with ACD.
Sigma's will probably be ran naked or with SPA. 4 naked sigmas could be a semi-popular list 16 attack dice and 16 hp (I am not saying it would be a good tournament list just that it could be fun and popular for casual play)
Edited by TanarriHer(yes I know FFg thinks its a him)
And you base that on what? Neither Echo or Whisper existed prior to this, as far as I know. Since they were created by FFG, then only they can say if it's a he or she. Both are listed with "'s around their name, so this is a call sign not a name.