It is simply the best in my opinion... also with another upgrade, for 40 point, it is a must have in an Imperial list...

maybe i'm wrong, I don't have a lot of experience, but the tie-phantom seems like a "crack" in this game if you are able to maneuver it properly...

i'm i the only one who thinks Whisper sucks?

i'm i the only one who thinks Whisper sucks?

It sure seems like it. Would you like to lay out your reasons?

Well the ability isn't automatic because you have to actually hit not just perform the attack, then there is the fact that it only gives you a focus to defend which unless you've bought an Advanced Cloaking Device your defending with 2 dice if i got the cloaking mechanics right, so i don't see the ability being very good, Echo is imo much better.

Well the ability isn't automatic because you have to actually hit not just perform the attack, then there is the fact that it only gives you a focus to defend which unless you've bought an Advanced Cloaking Device your defending with 2 dice if i got the cloaking mechanics right, so i don't see the ability being very good, Echo is imo much better.

With four dice you are going to hit most of the time. It will be very easy for Whisper + PtL + ACD (39 points) to decloak, move, focus, fire, get a free focus, cloak, then PtL to Evade/Barrel Roll

thats a lot of points just to turtle, the Phantom is perhaps the most offensive capable ship the Imperials have at the moment and as it stands Whispers ability is purely Defensive in nature. I've been using RG+PTL+Stealth recently and it would give the same defensive chances as Whisper when Turtling for 11 points less.

Well the ability isn't automatic because you have to actually hit not just perform the attack, then there is the fact that it only gives you a focus to defend which unless you've bought an Advanced Cloaking Device your defending with 2 dice if i got the cloaking mechanics right, so i don't see the ability being very good, Echo is imo much better.

With four dice you are going to hit most of the time. It will be very easy for Whisper + PtL + ACD (39 points) to decloak, move, focus, fire, get a free focus, cloak, then PtL to Evade/Barrel Roll

Add also "fire-control system" for 2 points...

Game. Set. Match.

Except that you are using a Focus on the attack, and still rolling 4 dice for that attack, then being incredibly hard to hit after. Its less turtling and more creating a crappy target, but one that still needs to be dealt with.

thats a lot of points just to turtle, the Phantom is perhaps the most offensive capable ship the Imperials have at the moment and as it stands Whispers ability is purely Defensive in nature. I've been using RG+PTL+Stealth recently and it would give the same defensive chances as Whisper when Turtling for 11 points less.

But it's one less on the attack, and it's not going to survive that unlucky roll the way a Phantom will. Whisper's agility will also last past the first hit, and the decloak move on the Phantom opens up the field a lot if you can use it well. Whisper can also get that same token load while still maintaining his maneuver/roll options, which is something the interceptor can't.

Is that worth 11 points of difference? That will be personal, but I think it's a much closer comparison than to just say "Whisper sucks next to a tricked-out RGP"

thats a lot of points just to turtle, the Phantom is perhaps the most offensive capable ship the Imperials have at the moment and as it stands Whispers ability is purely Defensive in nature. I've been using RG+PTL+Stealth recently and it would give the same defensive chances as Whisper when Turtling for 11 points less.

It was just one example that came to mind. However, unlike the Interceptor turtle, Whisper turtle can use the first focus freely on the attack roll without worrying about not having it for any return shots. Cloak only drops when you want it to, and it absorbs crits better than an interceptor, is more maneuverable than an interceptor (in a different way, mind you), and is a combination mini Turr/Soontir hybrid.

thats a lot of points just to turtle, the Phantom is perhaps the most offensive capable ship the Imperials have at the moment and as it stands Whispers ability is purely Defensive in nature. I've been using RG+PTL+Stealth recently and it would give the same defensive chances as Whisper when Turtling for 11 points less.

The fact that a phantom already has a great attack means that a defense oriented ability is much better than an offensive one.

Wedge dies before luke for a reason folks. shoring up weakness is always better than sending strengths from "stupid good" to "really stupid good".

I really like the phantom but once people get over the shiny it'll probably fall into the same tough to fly glass cannon category as the interceptor, cloak helps survivability a lot but sacrifices offense and it costs almost ten points more. It's very cool and worth using but I don't think it'll do anything more to the meta than shore up the "Falcon is king" status quo.

I'm pretty certain double Decloak is not going to be allowed to happen. We just have to see what logic they use to explain it. If they do.

My personal feelings is that they will use "immediately" as the operative word, so you can't decloak and use AdvSen in the same round because if you decloak and then perform a free action you aren't "immediately" decloaking prior to the Dial reveal, and if you try to perform an action (say a normal barrel roll) with sensors and then Decloak you aren't "immediately" performing the free action before you reveal your dial.

These are just my personal feelings based on my understanding of the definition of the word "immediately" in the English language, and I wouldn't be surprised if FFG agrees with me(because Decloaking already feels like getting a free action prior to moving) but I wouldn't be surprised if they let you use AdvSen and a single Decloak. I would be surprised if you could double Decloak though because at that point why bother putting "immediately before reveaing..."(yes I understand that without that language you could technically try decloaking out of PS order but that would be such a **** move I can't think of anyone seriously trying to pull that stunt in a game)

And Lorrir went with Maarek to that lonely, dark, corner... To cry together.

The phantom makes me more hot than the Defender by far.

Perhaps it is just me, but with the Defender I got that sensation... The sensation when your girlfirend gives you a shirt you don't like. Yes, it is a present, you should be grateful and all, you smile... But not matter what, that shirt has something you cannot fully explain, but you don't like it... And the worst part is that you have to wear it from time to time to not hurt her feelings...

Maybe i was a little harsh on poor Whisper but i believe Echo is better.

And Lorrir went with Maarek to that lonely, dark, corner... To cry together.

The phantom makes me more hot than the Defender by far.

Perhaps it is just me, but with the Defender I got that sensation... The sensation when your girlfirend gives you a shirt you don't like. Yes, it is a present, you should be grateful and all, you smile... But not matter what, that shirt has something you cannot fully explain, but you don't like it... And the worst part is that you have to wear it from time to time to not hurt her feelings...

I am not quite sure why everyone hates Defender. It is (IMO) an excellent ship and will be awesome when paired with a Phantom. As MJ brought out some time ago, the Defender is more a tank than a DPS unit, meaning that you need something else with a higher damage output to sink the hits in. The Phantom is perfect for this. Either they will chase the Phantom (good luck!) and by the time it is finished off they won't have enough ships to survive the Defender end-game jousting, or they go after the Defender and when it blows up they won't have enought ships to catch the Phantom in their arcs.

Agreed, and even if it is a bit tough to fit in standard lists, the Defender is a huge boon for epic games. It is much more reasonable to fit a few in, and it will be quite the threat to the bigguns.

Maybe i was a little harsh on poor Whisper but i believe Echo is better.

I'm not sure about better, but I do think Echo is less situational, that and her dancing may allow her to stay in better positions, especially against turret heavy lists.

Right now i'm looking at Echo+AdvS+PTL+Int.Agent+ADC=41 points

And Lorrir went with Maarek to that lonely, dark, corner... To cry together.

The phantom makes me more hot than the Defender by far.

Perhaps it is just me, but with the Defender I got that sensation... The sensation when your girlfirend gives you a shirt you don't like. Yes, it is a present, you should be grateful and all, you smile... But not matter what, that shirt has something you cannot fully explain, but you don't like it... And the worst part is that you have to wear it from time to time to not hurt her feelings...

I am not quite sure why everyone hates Defender. It is (IMO) an excellent ship and will be awesome when paired with a Phantom. As MJ brought out some time ago, the Defender is more a tank than a DPS unit, meaning that you need something else with a higher damage output to sink the hits in. The Phantom is perfect for this. Either they will chase the Phantom (good luck!) and by the time it is finished off they won't have enough ships to survive the Defender end-game jousting, or they go after the Defender and when it blows up they won't have enought ships to catch the Phantom in their arcs.

Agreed, and even if it is a bit tough to fit in standard lists, the Defender is a huge boon for epic games. It is much more reasonable to fit a few in, and it will be quite the threat to the bigguns.

I see the Phantom being a game changer for the Imperial Meta:

Shadow+Adv. Sensors+Intel Agent+SPA x3 FTW!

At PS 5 it will be the first to attack and last to move more often than not and the Intel Agent will help take down the higher PS opponents. Good luck killing these things!

Whisper with Advanced Cloacking Device, Push the limit and fire-control system...

first turn cloack...

second turn decloack, then:

- bonus 2 forward move

- normal move

- action (focus)

- attack with 4 or 5 dices (you have probably moved 4+2, so you can be at distance1 from the enemy ship)

- automatic free focus (Whisper's ability)

- automatic free target lock on the defender (fire-control system)

- automatic re-cloacking (advanced cloacking device)

- activate push the limit and perform an evade action

...

- defend with 4 dices (5 or 6 thanks to distance and asteroids) +1 focus and 1 evade

Is there something wrong with all this ??!?

And Lorrir went with Maarek to that lonely, dark, corner... To cry together.

The phantom makes me more hot than the Defender by far.

Perhaps it is just me, but with the Defender I got that sensation... The sensation when your girlfirend gives you a shirt you don't like. Yes, it is a present, you should be grateful and all, you smile... But not matter what, that shirt has something you cannot fully explain, but you don't like it... And the worst part is that you have to wear it from time to time to not hurt her feelings...

I am not quite sure why everyone hates Defender. It is (IMO) an excellent ship and will be awesome when paired with a Phantom. As MJ brought out some time ago, the Defender is more a tank than a DPS unit, meaning that you need something else with a higher damage output to sink the hits in. The Phantom is perfect for this. Either they will chase the Phantom (good luck!) and by the time it is finished off they won't have enough ships to survive the Defender end-game jousting, or they go after the Defender and when it blows up they won't have enought ships to catch the Phantom in their arcs.

The two ships serve different purposes. The phantom is the ultimate glass cannon. It can arc jump better than any other ship, can hit harder than any other ship, and is possibly the most customizable ship in the game but can be ripped apart by a lucky/falcon/post-ion hit and will have an immense learning curve. The defender is definitely tankier, still highly manoeuvrable, has white k-turns and can hit relatively hard. I look forward to building a list around a 40-something point version of either, and 50-something points worth of fighters. Using the Interceptor as the base, the Phantom exaggerates its strengths, while the Defender covers a weakness.

I think the 'what its capable of when used to 100% of its potential' factor is making people jump at the phantom more than the Defender

Whisper and Echo have different forms of defenses. Echo is going to be really, really slippery. Toss an engine upgrade on him, and I shall rename him Doughnut, because he is going to be flying in circles.

Whisper can be a really, really tough nut to crack. Toss a Recon Specialist and Advanced Cloaking Device, and you will have one Focus for offense, and two for defense. Add in Veteran Instincts, and the Rebel Aces will have some issue.

Whisper and Echo have different forms of defenses. Echo is going to be really, really slippery. Toss an engine upgrade on him, and I shall rename him Doughnut, because he is going to be flying in circles.

Whisper can be a really, really tough nut to crack. Toss a Recon Specialist and Advanced Cloaking Device, and you will have one Focus for offense, and two for defense. Add in Veteran Instincts, and the Rebel Aces will have some issue.

Echo is defensive defense, Whisper is offensive defense; if you know what I mean.

• Stygium particle accelerator is an amazing buy at 2 points. If you use it once then you just spent 2 points instead of 3 or 4 for a hull / shield upgrade.

With one exception:

If you're lucky, you could nail a Phantom with a Proton Bomb, which would have a 21% chance of one-shotting it. Just sayin'. =P

Also, Echo REALLY makes Lorrir and his stress barrel roll and lack of EPT pointless.

Echo's better, sure, but Lorrir can't be one-hit-KO'd by a Proton Bomb and is a full 7 points cheaper. Plus, Interceptors are gorgeous ships, unlike Phantoms.

That modification is not limited to the TIE Phantom. Every ship may equip it. So I suppose we will see other ships with access to the cloak action.

Every ship can equip it in the same way an X-wing can equip a Targeting Computer. There's just no need for it to be Phantom Exclusive, unlike Advanced Cloaking device, because it doesn't grant the cloak action. It doesn't really imply anything.(Although an Epic Mod for the Firespray that gives it cloak would make my day.)

I would have to agree that it implies other Cloaking ships. NO other ships can currently take advantage of it, and anything that adds a Cloak action to a ship's bar is likely to also be a Modification, so you can't take both-

unless you're a Royal Guard Pilot and OMG NOW I WANT CLOAKING INTERCEPTORS!!!

I think the 2 speed barrel rolls and boosts could be a curse more than a blessing a lot of the time.

Yep. Decloaking in an asteroid field is going to be nigh impossible because:

Remember that your template can cross ships, but not obstacles. That can cut off avenues as well.

Echo is amazing... going to give people fits. Ptl and EU always out of arc.... but slaughtered by named yt's, so dead ship?

What's the best Imperial strategy for taking out YT's? I definitely want to try pairing a Phantom with that.

Whisper with Advanced Cloacking Device, Push the limit and fire-control system...

first turn cloack...

second turn decloack, then:

- bonus 2 forward move

- normal move

- action (focus)

- attack with 4 or 5 dices (you have probably moved 4+2, so you can be at distance1 from the enemy ship)

- automatic free focus (Whisper's ability)

- automatic free target lock on the defender (fire-control system)

- automatic re-cloacking (advanced cloacking device)

- activate push the limit and perform an evade action

...

- defend with 4 dices (5 or 6 thanks to distance and asteroids) +1 focus and 1 evade

Is there something wrong with all this ??!?

Nothing wrong with it. That's a lot of actions...for a lot of points. But it does sound hella fun!

And Lorrir went with Maarek to that lonely, dark, corner... To cry together.

The phantom makes me more hot than the Defender by far.

Perhaps it is just me, but with the Defender I got that sensation... The sensation when your girlfirend gives you a shirt you don't like. Yes, it is a present, you should be grateful and all, you smile... But not matter what, that shirt has something you cannot fully explain, but you don't like it... And the worst part is that you have to wear it from time to time to not hurt her feelings...

I am not quite sure why everyone hates Defender. It is (IMO) an excellent ship and will be awesome when paired with a Phantom. As MJ brought out some time ago, the Defender is more a tank than a DPS unit, meaning that you need something else with a higher damage output to sink the hits in. The Phantom is perfect for this. Either they will chase the Phantom (good luck!) and by the time it is finished off they won't have enough ships to survive the Defender end-game jousting, or they go after the Defender and when it blows up they won't have enought ships to catch the Phantom in their arcs.

Agreed, and even if it is a bit tough to fit in standard lists, the Defender is a huge boon for epic games. It is much more reasonable to fit a few in, and it will be quite the threat to the bigguns.

I don't want to derail the thread but essentially, and after some tests, I came to the impression that the white K-turn has been quite overestimated. Or in other words, the defender had to pay for that K-turn with too many drawbacks that in the long run, tend to weight more during the match than the benefits it gets with it.

I know that the dev's tried to get a new way of flying with it, and I commend them for that... But not all experiments always go good... And I'm afraid that in the fear of making the ship too powerful, they overrated the benefits while underestimating the drawbacks.

Anyway, this is only my first impression, which may be perfectly mistaken, or tainted by a few unlucky matches... When the ship finally arrives, I'll give it more chances, and we'll get to finally see if it really gets popular, or if it ends sharing hangar with the advanced.

• The dial looks very good. It has all 3 turns, white.
• Cloaking does not appear to go away if you get hit, which is a big deal.
• Stygium particle accelerator is an amazing buy at 2 points. If you use it once then you just spent 2 points instead of 3 or 4 for a hull / shield upgrade.
• Advanced Cloaking Device is REALLY good at only 4 points. Against lower PS pilots this lets you stay at 4/4/2/2, rather than 4/2/2/2. This doubles your durability. Average jousting numbers are below.

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