First-off, I'd like to state that I don't care for the prequel trilogy much (although I do enjoy some Clone Wars episodes). There. I do love some of the crafts introduced there however (and I hate most of the others there). Most notedly I like the ARC-170 and the ETA-2.

So another thread got me thinking how would the ARC-170 work within this game system. It seems to open some very interesting design space.

This could also be the first ship in the game that can be used by both Imperials and Rebels with different pilot cards. According to Wookiepedia they were used during the Galactic Civil War by both sides as elite fighters.

Here's what I got so far:

So to explain everything:

Attack 3 - because even though the ARC has only two cannons they are quite heavier than regular fighter weapons.

Evade 2 - The fighter is bulky but powerful enough to evade some shots.

Hull 4 - Heavier than an X-Wing, still not as bulky as a Y-Wing.

Shiled 2 - Standard shields.

Stats being better than some of the "newer" ships is due to the fact that this was a more expensive craft, made during the war, when military industry is booming (unlike the civil war that follows). The good stuff comes at a cost of course and the though hull, lots of equipment, crew and heavy weapons lead to a sub-par dial.

Maneuver dial shows how this is a heavier craft not unlike the TIE Bomber, but even slower.

It carries 6 torpedoes so in this game that translates to 1 or 2 slots. Not sure on that one yet.

It uses Astromechs of course. And it is also said to be uqipped with heavy recon equipments - sensors, jammers, etc, hence the Adv.Sensors slot. Since this ship within the game is supposed to be used in the Civil War it can be equipped with the newer models of those sensors as well (as with the B-Wing).

The two crew slots are standard, however one of those can be used as a tail gunner, combining a cannon and a crew upgrade in one card:

CREW CARD:

ARC-170 Tail Gunner

3 squad points

ARC-170 ONLY

Attack: 1

Range: 1-2

This attack can only be performed in a 180-degree rear firing arc. This attack can be performed instead of or in addition to your regular attack at the end of the Attack phase.

or maybe

5 squad points

Attack: 2

Range: 1-2

Change all crits to hits. This attack can only be performed in a 180-degree rear firing arc. This attack can be performed instead of or in addition to your regular attack at the end of the Attack phase.

So what do you think? Missing anything? Got something wrong?

We know that they are doing non OT ships, unless you mean OT timeline. Though even so, the E-Wing stretches this a bit.

I don't imagine we will see many prequel ships, if any. The Aethersprite is really just a twitchier A-Wing, and most of the rest were... fairly mild in their influence. However as mentioned, the ARC did see service all the way through the civil war, I'd not be shocked to see it.

I'd love to see the Jedi star fighter from Revenge Of The Sith, awesome looking craft!

So, R5-P9 in combination with Recon Specialist? I'd buy that for a dollar.

I'd love the ARC-170. It's a wonderful craft.

The ARC 170 is one of my personal favourite ships that I do hope that FFG consider making.

I would think that the dial would need a tweak, any ship unable to perform a k-turn would need 3 turns to be viable and the cost reduced.

either way I really hope they do make it at some point

If Fantasy Flight cares more about making money in the long run than staying true to OT ships, then I'll bet we shall see prequel era ships.

I doubt LFL would let them.

In the OP I was actually asking how do you see the ARC-170 in terms of game stats. No one can really tell if FFG would make it or not, but I'm fine either way.

As for the missing K-turn, that's my bad - I'd put it at 3-red: http://bit.ly/RhVVHc

I liked the lack of a K turn. Made it different from the X-wing. That said, I'd up the hull by one more. As you said, it's bulky. But I'd cut it down to one crew and ditch the systems upgrade slot(seems all fancy and modern...). Otherwise this will either A be the best ship in the game or B, become a humongous target that can't live long enough to have an effect. That said, I like it. I'd be bummed if they started making these, but it's technically the same age as the Y-wing so I can see it.

That said I kind of like the idea lf older ships having more hull and less agility but kerping the firepower constantish as a design concept.

That is one pug-ugly lookin' ship.

Well - let's take this ARC in Comparison to an X-wing rookie.

So for 7 more points, the ARC gets: +1 Hull, -1 PS, Sensors Slot, +1 Torp Slot, and +2 Crew slot. So essentially the first two make it worth +2 more points...then the slots? Those aren't worth 5 points. By any means whatsoever. You put another hull on it, i could see it being worth 26 or so, but as it stands it costs more than an E-wing, with 1 less agility, no more health, very similar slots, and not as many actions. That 1 less agility is pretty big when you have so much hp.

I think if you drop a Crew (The Falcon gets two, but the HWK and the Phantom only get one, despite having "space" for more), and drop the price to 24 i could see it being a fairly decent ship. If a bit pricey

Astromech and crew give you a lot of options. Some of which may be overpowered:

R2 and Nien Nunb (10 green maneuvers)

R2-D2 and Nien Nunb (6 green maneuvers)

R5 and R2-D2

R5-K6 and Weapons Engineer

R7 and Weapons Engineer

R7-T1 and Weapons Engineer

R5-P9 and Recon Specialist

I'd drop one crew slot and change the system slot to a cannon slot.

None of this is exceptionally broken. Good, but not game breaking. None of them make the ship incredibly survivable with only two to three shields. Having a lot of green manuevers isn't broken without a K-turn, and even then it isn't amazing. And the target lock stuff is no worse than FCS and Weapons engineer. Good, but less than gamebreaking.Even R7 only works once a turn.

Some of the point increase (compared to an X-Wing) is due to the huge potential for brokenness (yeah, that's a word).

Some of the point increase (compared to an X-Wing) is due to the huge potential for brokenness (yeah, that's a word).

Intentionally overcosting doesn't balance the ships combos. It just makes the ship bad because those upgrades are already expensive. The most dangerous combo on that list is Recon spec and R5 or Nien and R2. Those each cost a ton to execute and don't help the ship live through the early game at all. Having it cost 33-34 is intensley expensive for a PS 1 ship with a single extra hull of durability over an X-wing and a worse dial.

There was a really cool posts about ARC-170 stats a while back; I am going to try and find it and post the link here.

EDIT: and here they are

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/100200-help-making-custom-pilot-cards/page-3

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/100588-starfighter-research-and-development-department/

And now one of the awesome forumite modelers just needs to make a scratch build of this ship and it's all set to go!

Overall, I think it's fairly solid., Not perfect, but solid. However...

CREW CARD:

ARC-170 Tail Gunner

3 squad points

ARC-170 ONLY

Attack: 1

Range: 1-2

This attack can only be performed in a 180-degree rear firing arc. This attack can be performed instead of or in addition to your regular attack at the end of the Attack phase.

or maybe

5 squad points

Attack: 2

Range: 1-2

Change all crits to hits. This attack can only be performed in a 180-degree rear firing arc. This attack can be performed instead of or in addition to your regular attack at the end of the Attack phase.

First off...what firing arc? Are you picturing a possible auxiliary arc? And why 180 degrees instead of 90? Or did you mean 360? And keep in mind the difference between having a turret and having a larger firing arc--effects like Backstabber's ability get called into question.

And the first one is...well, not fantastic. One attack die isn't that great, especially since you can't get a bonus die for range one and it's at the end of the turn, after your actions are probably gone. The second is crazy against a low-agility ship...an extra attack is a big deal. Even at two dice, and even ignoring crits.

Honestly, I'd just take a leaf out of the Y-Wing's book: drop the crew upgrade, add a turret. No crew+mech shenanigans.

I think it could be used as a rebel firespray by having a front and rear firing arc. Only difference is I'd make the front arc attack 3, and the back arc attack 1. That way you are still encouraged to turn around, but if you can't you still get do a small attack on anyone trailing you.

I think it could be used as a rebel firespray by having a front and rear firing arc. Only difference is I'd make the front arc attack 3, and the back arc attack 1. That way you are still encouraged to turn around, but if you can't you still get do a small attack on anyone trailing you.

I'd probably just give it an upgrade card that worked in the same fashion to Anti Pursuit Lasers that only the ARC-170 can take.

Yes, that should be an upgrade card on a crew slot as that second laser has to be operated by a gunner. That's also why it could attack twice a turn. If you got no rear gunner (no points spent there) you don't get the rear arc.

Giving it turret or two arcs for the primary weapon just doesn't make sense thematically.

Another reason to have that as an upgrade card - you can't really explain rear 180 degree firing arc on each ARC pilot card and it is unreasonable to have a rule card just for that one fighter.

As for the 180 degree rear arc - its not a turret as it can't fire forward and it's not 90 degree as in this game hard mounted cannons use 90 degree arcs. So a rotating cannon which can only cover the back and the sides is surely going to have a 180 degree rear arc.

Plus this was all an excercise in exploring new design space within the game. So oversimplifying this otherwise interesting ship to fit already existing functions of this game was not the goal here.

When I rethink the rear gunner card however I guess it should be firing with one dice only, but maybe have that shot always be focused - there's a guy there who's only job is to shoot at stuff without worrying about also flying the ship. Hence an always focused shot, ala Luke Crew member. Thoughts?

Love it! Dunno if the points are right, I'm sure there's maths to decide that, but I like the feel of it. Does it definitely have an astromech then? That plus three crew seems a lot, would surely make it bulkier than the YWing?

Yes, that should be an upgrade card on a crew slot as that second laser has to be operated by a gunner. That's also why it could attack twice a turn. If you got no rear gunner (no points spent there) you don't get the rear arc.

Giving it turret or two arcs for the primary weapon just doesn't make sense thematically.

Another reason to have that as an upgrade card - you can't really explain rear 180 degree firing arc on each ARC pilot card and it is unreasonable to have a rule card just for that one fighter.

As for the 180 degree rear arc - its not a turret as it can't fire forward and it's not 90 degree as in this game hard mounted cannons use 90 degree arcs. So a rotating cannon which can only cover the back and the sides is surely going to have a 180 degree rear arc.

Plus this was all an excercise in exploring new design space within the game. So oversimplifying this otherwise interesting ship to fit already existing functions of this game was not the goal here.

Okay. In that case, how would you envision the rear arc? Thinking about it now, I can imagine something along the lines of " Attack (2 dice, Range 1): perform this attack against one ship. Treat the back of your ship's base as your firing arc. You may change one (focus) result to a (hit) result."

It's not super elegant, but not overly complicated either. You don't need a special base or anything, and it does keep the flavor you're talking about. Is that somewhat along the lines of what you were thinking?

Also, I would suggest dropping the crew slots down to just one. As I think was previously mentioned, crew slots are usually not quite what canon says they should be (hence the Falcon and GR-75 only having two, for example). This thing doesn't have much more room than a Y-Wing.