lets look at it like this,

i feel as though Lucas F'd this up as well.

as time passes, new technology out dates the old. the ships in the pre-quells looked like they could toast anything in the rebellion era. The Z-95 was a clone war era ship, but it didnt show up until the tail end of the clone wars series, and all the previous ships were more advanced.

so for that reason i would not like to see ships from episodes 1-3, as they would out perform the ships we have and they would have several jedi that would make them even more powerful.

i like where they went with wave 4, and the aces. if they keep this up we will be happy for a long time to come. from what i gather, wave 4 is the most anticipated wave yet, i know it is for me.

The Republic became the Empire. Republic ships became the Empire ships. Saying that you can't compare the two is like saying you can't compare Clone Troopers and Stormtroopers. I know not all Stormtroopers are clones, or at least not clones of Jango Fett, but you can clearly see that what once was Republic now is Empire.

But

I'll grant that to be a Separatist does not mean being a Rebel. Rebels as we currently know them are part of the Rebel Alliance and far from being Separatist they want to restore the Republic which the Separatists were separating from...

My brain hurts

But the ARC fighter became the X wing? The Republic was the good guys, and the rebels are the good guys....

I thought the Z-95 became the X-Wing which then became the E-Wing?

I did say that the Rebel Alliance were fighting to restore the Republic so yeah I got no disagreement there...

...from a certain point of view

the x-wing was an imperial design stolen by the alliance.

I very much do not want to see prequel anything in this game.

As much of a SW nut as I am, I'm not about to say that I enjoy the prequels very much. They served their purpose in a disappointing way and filled the gaping maw that every fan of SW wanted to see, but I'll stop there as this is not a topic to discuss how good or bad the prequels are perceived.

My point is that I am perfectly happy that this game 'takes place' during the Rebellion era, and if this game was called 'Jedi Starfighter' and not 'X-Wing' I would not have bought it.

For me the appeal of this game is that it uses ships from the original trilogy. The good trilogy. It reminds me of being a kid watching the movies, playing with the toys and computer games and building Star Wars models, then proceeding to move them in the air going WHOOSHHHH and the like.

Anyway, long story short, I don't want to see vulture droids or naboo fighters on the gaming mat next to TIE interceptors and B-Wings. That would just ruin the enjoyment for me.

In my living room right now, I've got Lego models for the ETA 2 starfighter (with hyperdrive ring!) and the V-19 Torrent . I've also got a Lego Sopwith Camel , but World War 1 is so far outside of the Star Wars canon that we won't mention it. I'm not gonna lie: when Fantasy Flight announced the Z-95 was coming out, I picked up the Lego Headhunter. (I'm 36. My wife put up with Lego in the living room because I put up with Chun-li Hello Kitty in the living room)

What I'm saying is: I dig the designs of these ships. There's definitely a lot to recommend them if Fantasy Flight wanted to look to them for inspiration. My question- and it goes a bit deeper than the Prequel ships (or even the Sequel ships)- what rolls are left to be filled in the game? What ship types do we want that we just don't have? Once you decide that a single point on ship A should be as effective as a single point on ship B, we have to look towards rolls that need filling, and synergies that need linking. I don't need a cheaper version of the Tie Fighter- though I love the V-Wing . I have 2(!) copies of the Lego.

That's one reason I'm excited to see the Huge ships come out. It's not merely that they're so big- it's that they're _different_. They play differently. They look different. The battlefield takes an entirely different shape when they're present. I _love_ that.

I actually do have a sort of half-notion about how to create a prequel-era faction that is points-efficient, but plays _very_ differently. Still kind of kicking it around in my head before putting it on paper, though.

Aah 'the X Wing was an Imperial design stolen by the alliance' This single fact bugs me, not because it doesnt make sense. why wouldnt the Empire, with its limitless budget, want a super fighter. But because every Imp fighter since looks like a TIE when they were clearly planning on going in a different direction. I can just see the planning department. "Oops they stole the plans for that new fighter what are we going to tell the Emperor?" much head scratching then some bright spark chimes in with

"I know, lets just modify the TIEs panels. We can reshape them and eventually add a lot more of them and pretend it was what we were going to do all along. That makes more sense than continuing with the X Wing plans that, admittedly, were stolen but that being a shifty organization we were probably copying to Imperial data banks all along"

That would be like the allies stealing the plan for the ME 262 and Nazi Germany saying "well bugger. guess we have to go back to the 109, that was a waste of time"

Aah 'the X Wing was an Imperial design stolen by the alliance' This single fact bugs me, not because it doesnt make sense. why wouldnt the Empire, with its limitless budget, want a super fighter. But because every Imp fighter since looks like a TIE when they were clearly planning on going in a different direction. I can just see the planning department. "Oops they stole the plans for that new fighter what are we going to tell the Emperor?" much head scratching then some bright spark chimes in with

"I know, lets just modify the TIEs panels. We can reshape them and eventually add a lot more of them and pretend it was what we were going to do all along. That makes more sense than continuing with the X Wing plans that, admittedly, were stolen but that being a shifty organization we were probably copying to Imperial data banks all along"

That would be like the allies stealing the plan for the ME 262 and Nazi Germany saying "well bugger. guess we have to go back to the 109, that was a waste of time"

i cant remember the exact story, but i believe that the company that was building the x-wing defected to the alliance, seinor fleet systems (not sure on the spelling of that) builds the stardestroyers and the ties, and that is why all the ties look like they do.

its like we do here in the USA, there are several aeronautics companies building aircraft for our military, and they receive funding for the aircraft they build, but then the best is picked and thats what we buy for our military. so going with an inexpensive mass produced starfighter is more cost effective to a galaxy spanding empire.

As far as I recall that is correct. the design wasn't stolen so much as everyone important to the project decide "lets go support the rebel". Anyone that was left would probably want to distance themselves from those designs as much as possible.

Well, the biggest reason you won't see prequel ships ... is not because anyone doesn't want them, but that they arent rebellion era ships.. which the game is set in... really kind of simple...

Exactly.

Which I think is for the best. This game is currently the closest thing we have to the old X-Wing and TIE Fighter video games. Being able to relive those good ol' days is excellent.

Not to mention, I enjoy having somethin Star Wars these days that remains as close to "pure" as it can be from the taint of the prequels. (Not trying to start a debate, just saying that it's nice for us purists to get a little something in the modern age.)

Disney isn't going to throw out the cash cow that is the prequels. It has probably made 10x the money that the OT did, reached 3-4 times the audience-and the much you get audience, who is thier target demographic- of the OT, and is still active in TV, products, and other licenses. Disney isn't doing anything to quash that $$$, they are putting thier efforts forward but $$$ is $$$ and clone wars is EASY $$$ from young fans, new fans, and even old fans.

I reapeat- I would love and buy 2 waves of prequel before the new trilogy ships hit.

If they added prequels I'd see them doing it as a separate format of the game. Similar to how currently there's Standard Dogfight, Escalation, Epic, and Team Epic formats, we'd see Prequel Format, where only prequel ships are allowed, to avoid strange mixings of Vulture Droids and TIE Advanced and whatnot.

I can see some prequel ship being added into the game. The ARC-170 and V-Wing are both likely since they were used during the the time period of the rebellion. The V-19 Torrent however had already been phased out so isn't likely to see the table.

Whether these ships are forced onto one side or the other, or can be taken by both will be a decision for FFG to make which really comes down to whether they want continuity or are happy to break the mold.

I'd almost like to see models for these ships that are just alternative sculpts for other ships. The Jedi Starfighter screams A-Wing to me.

Would you rather have a jedi starfighter, or a vulture droid?

At this point I would just pick the Red Dwarf or an astroid...

The only prequel ship I would want to see is the V-Wing. It did serve in the Empire, according to Wookieepedia,

I have no idea how what is canon anymore BUT it does show Vs flying for the Empire at the end of ep III.

Well, the biggest reason you won't see prequel ships ... is not because anyone doesn't want them, but that they arent rebellion era ships.. which the game is set in... really kind of simple...

That is/was not true. The Rebs tried using the 170 and found it required way to much maintence and crews to use. Same story for BLT B.

I'm not well-versed in the EU, but Wookieepedia says the E-Wing is from the New Republic era.

For all we know now it was made during the dark times but was so expensive they choose only the most important fights to use them.

Quote

Power level the headhunter and Y-wings stuck around because they were robust and customizable enough to not be useless later on. Most other ships, even if they were technically on par, didn't live up to that. You couldn't supe up the engines, you couldn't repair them as easily and so they fell to better craft that their fellows managed to co-exist with. UNQUOTE

It was/is in the lore that 3 Ys exist. The oldest being BLT B then the BLT A4 then the BLT S3 and diffrent versions of them.

The A4 despite having crapy shields had heavy duty long range laser cannons which is better than everything elses in the Rebs fleet except E-Wing type B and some B-Wings that have Turbo Lasers. A4s were just as fast as T-65 un-moded, had way better armor than most reb ships and were very manuverable, one being as good as a T-65. For a good while A4s were the top dog fighter of the Rebs.

My brain hurts

You can compare the factions, but the conflicts themselves are drastically different. The republic, while corrupt, was largely benevolent or at least benign, the Empire was actively oppressive. The Separatists had the military power and resources to wage a full scaled war as opposed to the small scale guerrilla actions of the rebel alliance.

It is was true that the Rebs like guerrilla warfare HOWEVER they are/were bigger than the Grand Army and Navy in every way but star fighter force. Mon Cal cruisers carry 120 wing fighters. The rebs also have the heaviest most powerful ground vehicles and will fight in large battles.

I wouldn't worry about power level:

1. SW is a stagnated universe where technical breakthroughs are mostly made during wars.

2. Ships like the ARC and the Torrent are quite heavily armed so they should be able to hold their own against the newer ships.

3. The ETA-2 was made in small numbers (for Jedi only) and was super advanced - just too expensive and twitchy for mass production.

4. Old, cheap ships also mean less squad points so there's balance.

Were do you get refrence for point 1?.

No on point two. The 170 carrries two medium laser cannons. A4s carry two heavy duty long range laser cannons. B can carry some times heavy laser cannon and turbo laser cannons. Es type B have three Assault Laser cannons. TIEs if they were elite could carry really heavy fire power like SFS 7.2. Interceptors Avengers and Defenders carry the 9.3 which could be the first assault laser cannon or turbos.

Big no on point 3. It was a good ship but its passive and active detection ranges are based around the R unit being used. Its laser over heat easily. It carries no shields and has light armor. It has no ecm capabilities nor physical counter measures. Compared to the hardware of say a Squint the onlything going for it is speed. The ETA2 could easily get splashed without detecting the squint or any ship with standard avionics as long as it doesnt have a jedi pilot or a ace that hase practiced nonstop with it limited detection and stealth capabilities. Even then ACE ETA vs ACE Squint the Squint will win most the time.

Alright so I'm 17. Phantom Menace was my first Star Wars experience at about age 7. I didn't know what bad acting was and I didn't have any preconceived notions about what the 'verse was (Jar Jar was hilarious sorry guys) So I could enjoy that film for the visual spectacle that it was (and is). That said, I bought a 1:270 delta 7 from shapeways that I then painted and have plans to buy many more republic era ships. However, for the sake of the coherence of this game, I think it should stay rebellion era. Anything before ( or significantly after) should be left to the fans like me!

When I consider that mirror matches are allowed in tournament play, it doesn't seem impossible that we'll get prequel factions and ships. Factions are still a tricky problem. I can imagine Alliance and Republic factions, with Alliance-only and Rebel-only upgrades being compatible, and Empire-only and Republic-only upgrades being compatible -- but there may still be problems with that I'm not seeing right now. Just an idle thought.

When I consider that mirror matches are allowed in tournament play, it doesn't seem impossible that we'll get prequel factions and ships. Factions are still a tricky problem. I can imagine Alliance and Republic factions, with Alliance-only and Rebel-only upgrades being compatible, and Empire-only and Republic-only upgrades being compatible -- but there may still be problems with that I'm not seeing right now. Just an idle thought.

Two problems off the top of my head: Count Dooku and Luke Skywalker can be happily deployed together as crew on the Millennium Falcon, and R2-D2 can't be deployed on Anakin Skywalker's fighter.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but I really think there are a lot of weird roadblocks between us and prequel ships, and personally I'd rather see the developers' time and effort go towards new ships from the Civil War era.

(Sorry! Accidental double-post.)

working as separate factions should work, but mixing them with current ones does sound strange, wouldn't fit the game style.

But adding two separate factions at the same time (would make sense thematically speaking) seems like an awful big single step. Looks more like a new game or a very late game revival.

My guess is if they ever decide to add another faction it will be some fringe/smuggler/pirate/.. faction, which would have the advantage of working with the existing factions and could benefit of reusing existing ships by just adding pilots for them.

as a personal preference, I would never mix the visual styles of the prequel ships with the current ones they just don't fit, so I hope they don't add them (independent of the question if they fit the timeline or not).

Yeah, Vorpal Sword, I agree those are good examples of cross-faction weirdness. Looks like they'd have to introduce a unique "Republic" faction R2-D2 and so on, with no intermixability between "good guy" factions, etc. Not really a problem -- just means printing more cards. The nice thing about that is that we currently have very few faction-specific upgrades, and only a small number of unique characters that span different eras.

A four-ship rollout of new factions (with 2 ships per faction) doesn't seem like an insurmountable problem, though. The fact that all-X-Wing builds and all-basic-TIE builds are still viable means that if they get the "Prequel Wave 1" ships right, the new factions will be competitive right from the start.

I'm not very confident that it will be done, but it's sure looking to me like it could be done.

I think it'd be fine as its own game. I have no interest in seeing the Naboo transports from Ep. I & II, alongside the Rebel Transport or Lambda. Forget about the starfighters/droid fighters. Similarly, I have no interest in seeing the debate pop up over when we can expect to see Trade Federation battleships either. I'm not up enough on EU lore to know much about the E wing, though the Z-95 was fun to play in the X-Wing/TIE Fighter video games. Why add stuff to the game just for the sake of adding stuff to the game?

I'm not up enough on EU lore to know much about the E wing

Me either. And yet here it comes, and I'll probably buy two.

One (another?) nice thing about adding prequel ships is that there are already lots of ship options in the game, so they won't be must-haves unless there's serious power creep (which I don't think we have to worry about since FFG has been pretty good about point costs so far).

I'm not very thrilled about Defenders, Phantoms and E-Wings. I don't have warm-fuzzies for them because I didn't play video games or read stories featuring them, so they're just kind of ugly weird ships to me. But if I want to play competitively, I'll have no choice but to play against them. Prequel ships would be no different for those who don't like them.

i cant remember the exact story, but i believe that the company that was building the x-wing defected to the alliance

Incom the company that made the Z-95's and X-Wings had pretty much everyone who was involved in making the X-Wing defect to the RA. The Empire tried to nationalize the company so they all joined the Rebellion.

They only had a few prototypes when they defected, so it was unlikely that the Empire had even started field tests. The Empire also sentenced everyone left to labor camps on Kessel so there really wasn't anyone left to build any more ships for the Empire.

Personally, I think the prequel ships are junk.

I'd rather see FFG make the ships for the original Battlestar Galactica and Buck Rogers in the 25th century, done at the same scale as X-Wing so I could use them to create some mashup battles.

That would be awesome fun!

as time passes, new technology out dates the old. the ships in the pre-quells looked like they could toast anything in the rebellion era. The Z-95 was a clone war era ship, but it didnt show up until the tail end of the clone wars series, and all the previous ships were more advanced.

so for that reason i would not like to see ships from episodes 1-3, as they would out perform the ships we have and they would have several jedi that would make them even more powerful.

Yes, technology develops over time, but its only a 20 year difference, more or less. In the US military, we still use radios made during the vietnam war(hate those things), our tanks pretty old too. They used the M1 Abrahms during the 1st Gulf War, and the M1-a1/a2 during the 2nd Gulf War. Granted, there were many mods made to the tanks, like bigger guns, but they are still pretty much the same thing 25 years later.

We also still use lots of the fighter planes that were made decades ago. Granted, they are being phased out but wont be gone for a while. The F-16 was made in the 70s but its still going(with plenty of upgrades and mods)

The F-22, which is newer, is the stealth fighter and probablly better than the F-16, but that doesnt make the F-16 obsolete.

And you gotta give to Lucas, if he had better technology when he made the OT like when he made ep. III then we certainly would have seen x wings flying in crazy dogfights with ties during the death star trench run, just like the opening scene of ep III. So saying that the prequel fighters are better than the OT fighters is a little bogus IMO. Ideas develop over time, which is why the prequel ships seem better than the OT. Just think what it would have been like if the prequels were the movies he made first, and the difference in space combat to the OT if he made those only a few years ago...

i cant remember the exact story, but i believe that the company that was building the x-wing defected to the alliance

Incom the company that made the Z-95's and X-Wings had pretty much everyone who was involved in making the X-Wing defect to the RA. The Empire tried to nationalize the company so they all joined the Rebellion.

They only had a few prototypes when they defected, so it was unlikely that the Empire had even started field tests. The Empire also sentenced everyone left to labor camps on Kessel so there really wasn't anyone left to build any more ships for the Empire.

Still seems flimsy to me. The Empire was using ARCs already. The things that sort of looked like they might theoretically become TIEs were Jedi fighters so even if the defectors had stolen the plans and the prototypes and blown up the factory and seeded the ground with salt that should have just led the Empire to go."Hmmm, they are getting some superior fighters over there. Hey Seinar, give us something just as good....or else"

But lets be honest they just wanted to have a distinctive difference between Imp and Rebel craft most of the stolen X Wing story was just an early addition anyway