...through taking The Flesh is Weak Talent.

I'm running a techpriest and he's all ready to take this talent. Already has a lot of cybernetics, is an expert in using-tech and most of all - suffered a lot of damage during last session.

Now he is about to wake up after series of surgeries and look at his new body. He stands on his feet. He looks down. He yells:

The rulebook says what the machine gains, but it doesn't say anything about what it looses. I don't think I should recharge my TP or sth., because he already had sth. to charge his cybernetics. What about recovering wounds? Should he be fixed instead of being healed like before? Should they use Tech-Use instead of Medicae when they want to stabilise him?

Weapons or effects that make machines malfunction could have devastating effects on a character with Machine, or too many cybernetics in general. I had a psyker fry his own eyes through a perils test that made all machinery in the area malfunction.

Beyond that, there could be all sorts of penalties to do with social interaction. While cybernetics are common and accepted in the Imperium, they're expensive and rare. Perhaps the expense and rarity of the procedures mark the player as a rich, easy mark, or as an important target for enemies or rivals from other regiments. In their downtime, think about the social consequences of the slow loss of humanity. How many individuals of the opposite gender, for instance, would be turned off, even terrified of a guardsmen who looks more like a servitor than the propaganda ideal?

It can also lead to creative plot twists on and off the field of battle. For example, in my campaign the players are currently hunting for a noble who was kidnapped while slumming it in the worst part of the capital so that he could be rendered down for parts by a mob doctor/chop shop. If they're not careful, then the two heavily modified guardsmen run the risk of the same thing happening to them.

By RAW, there's no flaws in having the Machine Trait, as far as I am aware.

However, there are many situations where interpretations can take effect, such as with Haywire Grenades, EMP effects or various psychic phenomena or perils of the warp.

Having your lungs malfunction all of a sudden seems like a terrible way to go. You have Gastral Bionics? Roll a Hellish Willpower test to not immediately void your bowels. You have the Machine Trait? Roll against Shock (#), # being equal to the ranks in Machine.

The cybernetics may draw the attention of the "less enlightened" folk (as: people with 0 technological knowledge, so ~90% of the IoM) who may have the wrong idea and mistake the character with a mutant/daemon/xeno and burn him on a stake.

And there are daemons whose specialty is possessing machines (Data Daemons). IIRC one of the Mechanicus books mentioned that more cybernetics = more attention from the Data Daemons. Though this part is really obscure.

One flaw might be you now belong to the AdMech. Whether you start verging on being a 50%+ cyborg, or just have a part or two, there is a decent chance you had to get a bit chummy with someone to get those parts, and a better chance you don't know how to maintain or repair them. If you lose an arm saving the Colonel, that's all well and good, and he might pull some strings to get you a nice prosthetic arm to replace it (it might even have once been your wife ), but now you need other people, and not ones who might seem all there upstairs, to keep it in good order. The more of them you get, the more indebted to the AdMech you are likely to become. This is my take on it, anyway. If you are someone who actually qualifies for Machine (X), you probably are a Tech-Priest, and then you DO belong to the Cult; if you aren't a TP congrats, because now you do, too.

I say this because, despite the slim availability to non-Tech-Priests of Tech-Use skill, really no one else is allowed to understand those workings, and the Engineseers keep it that way. If you do know enough, and you aren't a Tech-Priest, they might become your enemy, rather than your pimp. Again, this is my particular take on things. I accept that Operators might know enough about tech to maintain their rides, and such, but even the best non-TP usually seems to know next to nothing about most devices; like the Tech-Priests, you might be able to disassemble/reassemble it by rote, but that's about it.

The cybernetics may draw the attention of the "less enlightened" folk (as: people with 0 technological knowledge, so ~90% of the IoM) who may have the wrong idea and mistake the character with a mutant/daemon/xeno and burn him on a stake.

And there are daemons whose specialty is possessing machines (Data Daemons). IIRC one of the Mechanicus books mentioned that more cybernetics = more attention from the Data Daemons. Though this part is really obscure.

Even though 90% of the IoM are ignorant nincompoops, they've virtually all seen tech-priests and augmentations. The Creedo Omnissiah is a major religion within the IoM and any advanced technologies are kept and maintained by them.

Sufficient to say, unless we're talking about the backwaters of a backwater Feudal or Agricultural World, they're not going to go bananas and think you're a mutan, daemon or xenos - unless you've got very specific "enhancements" that they may not have seen before.

I have to wonder how Imperial/AdMech theology deals with cybernetics.

Do cybernetic parts have their own machine spirits? Are they some kind of soul/machine spirit composite?

Personally, I'd guess: to the Tech-Priests ... absolutely, yes. Cybernetics are machinery, too, after all, and their own constant upgrades are fueled by the spiritual desire to bring their flesh closer to the divine and "becoming one" with the machine (would this, to the Cult Mechanicus, be some sort of ascension gained by the human soul merging with the machine spirit inhabiting his or her bionics? hmm...).

The ordinary population, however, those Imperial citizens who do not live on a Forge World ... that's a trickier topic.

After reading some more into the topic, I've discovered that in GW's version of the setting, the Mechanicus' teachings do not seem to be very widespread, likely due to the influence of the Ministorum as the rival faith, which deliberately seeks to limit the Mechanicus' influence. The idea that just about every single Imperial citizen has accepted the idea of little spirits inhabiting the tools they use daily seems to originate from certain licensed products (specifically, some Black Library novels) whereas the Necromunda rulebook, for example, suggests a much more "down to earth" approach as far as hivers and tech are concerned, referencing random gangers - who certainly didn't enjoy a proper AdMech training - acting as technicians and even crafters.

The Inquisitor rulebook somewhat clarifies the subject in that it mentions the Cult Mechanicus' rites "permeating into the common superstition of Imperial citizens" ... so, in short, it seems to depend on how accustomed the local population is to the concept of high technology, which directly influences a native people's readiness to adopt whatever they hear out of the mouths of a Tech-Priest, even though they may not be allowed to formally preach there. The credo of the Machine Cult will have a far easier time spreading on some Feudal World whose inhabitants consider the workings of a laser rifle to be "magic" than they would in a Hive whose inhabitants grow up being surrounded by tech from the earliest age, yet not subjected to the indoctrination of the Tech-Priests.

Or, in short. it depends.

Dark Heresy and the other FFG RPGs seem to follow the idea that is popular in many novels, however - and in fact, the games' rules and mechanics lift a Tech-Priest's connection to machinery far above mere superstition. Abilities such as unjamming guns by a wave of the hand are a clear sign of divine magic which will be hard to ignore by other characters. In this, much like with Acts of Faith, these RPGs have simply opted for a more "fantastical" approach than the original source material, where all a Tech-Priest got was a fat bonus to their Tech-Use skill.

A clear sign of divine magic -- or technobabble magnetic control of a gun's internal mechanisms that appears to be divine magic because it is not clear how it is done.

(Actually in universe there is no difference between divine magic and technobabble. In fact in our universe the division between divine magic and science is rather conceptually tenuous and is more about attitude than anything else, but let's not get into that.)

A clear sign of divine magic -- or technobabble magnetic control of a gun's internal mechanisms that appears to be divine magic because it is not clear how it is done.

I don't really see how it would be possible by technical means even if applying sci-fi tech. Projecting a magnetic field with such force that you could jam or unjam someone's gun would have a ton of other effects as well - such as having a good chance at ripping said gun off the hands of its user. Not to mention that you should then be able to do way more than that. Then not every gun is going to be a projectile weapon, and then there will be weapons whose inner workings the Tech-Priest has never seen before...

Nanites, perhaps? Though that's still kind of stretching it, considering a plethora of issues such as delivery, hindrances, or alternate uses.

Most of the Tech-Priest's abilities in the RPG can be explained by stuff like magnetic interaction or whatever, but there are some that seem to clearly push beyond what should be possible by mere technology, and which Tech-Priests simply do not have in GW's own games. Considering that Acts of Faith have been turned from a matter of willpower into divine magic as well, it just seems to be the most obvious explanation that stuff like that would encompass Tech-Priest "magiks" as well.

Nanites, perhaps? Though that's still kind of stretching it, considering a plethora of issues such as delivery, hindrances, or alternate uses.

Pffff... Your lack of faith is disturbing.

The answer is always nanomachines .

The 40k tech level is crazy advanced, they have weapons that can crack friggin' planets apart for crying out loud! Unjamming a gun with a hand motion is nothing compared to that level of scientific nonsense!

It's technobabble. In-universe it has some kind of scientific explanation, even though it may be impossible in reality. Like warp travel.

It's technobabble.

Whilst this probably was the original idea, I just don't think some of the abilities provided by the game still qualify for it. Too limited in application, and too closely relying on intricate knowledge of the detailed workings of the target item (which the TP may well have never seen before).

So either it's bad design, or an intentional development of the designers' own ideas. There is also a difference between stuff like warp travel and certain Talents in that with warp travel, a pseudo-explanation is at least attempted, which makes it easier to swallow. But remotely unjamming any gun in the galaxy, whilst being unable to use the same trick to, say, opening a door? Try explaining that , and I'll start poking holes into that theory.

In a way, it actually makes sense. If Acts of Faith are "real" around here, why should members of the Cult Mechanicus not benefit from similar bonuses, given that they fervently follow an Imperial religion as well? The relative exclusiveness of divine magic to FFG's version of Battle Sisters and other followers of the Imperial Creed is, after all, another weird factor here, wouldn't you agree?

So either it's bad design, or an intentional development of the designers' own ideas. There is also a difference between stuff like warp travel and certain Talents in that with warp travel, a pseudo-explanation is at least attempted, which makes it easier to swallow. But remotely unjamming any gun in the galaxy, whilst being unable to use the same trick to, say, opening a door? Try explaining that , and I'll start poking holes into that theory.

You're overthinking it. The real reason is because the designers didn't bother coming up with a door-opening talent and waving your hands and unjaming guns has impressive incombat effects that look cool.

An "operate machine from a distance" talent might be quite nice, but potentially very unbalancing.

An "operate machine from a distance" talent might be quite nice, but potentially very unbalancing.

Meh. Remote controlling machines is a core ability in every self-respecting sci-fi game (it is called "hacking") and I, for one, miss it from the arsenal of the Tech Priest. The only reason why I'm still okay-ish with the current state of no-hacking is that the 40k universe is not sci-fi but space fantasy.

ATTEMPTED EXPLANATION

All Imperium/Adeptus Mechanicus-designed weaponry has advanced features for clearing jams or malfunctions, but most users (those without Technical Knock) don't know how to activate those functions.

Again, the difference is mostly virtual. The normal players will never know and the Techmarine does know but won't tell/explain.

Keep the mystery, GMs.

Alex

ATTEMPTED EXPLANATION

All Imperium/Adeptus Mechanicus-designed weaponry has advanced features for clearing jams or malfunctions, but most users (those without Technical Knock) don't know how to activate those functions.

*starts poking* How does this work with less advanced weapons (a hive ganger's home-built revolver, a repeating crossbow), or equipment looted by some Xenos species (such as a Tau Pulserifle)?

Yes, maybe I am "overthinking it", as bogi_khaosa pointed out, but that is due to my innate desire for a realistic setting where effects at least appear to have a probable cause, not some high fantasy construct where stuff just happens because "it's magic /handwave". Even if it's just the players who will know.

It's a personal preference of mine, and a matter of immersion. "Suspension of disbelief" is a requirement in about every sci-fi setting, but I think we all have our limits somewhere. Let's just say I'm one of those people who watched JJ's new Trek and who, instead of just continuing to lazily watch and enjoy the movie, had their brains unwittingly pause for a moment and go "WHAT" on several plotholey occasions.

I have another explanation:

1. Jamming of a weapon is usually a result of blocked mechanism.

2. Usually an applied force is required to unblock this mechanism.

3. Weapons within the Imperium of Mankind are somewhat scarce and every guardsman is obliged to take care of his own gun.

4. Many guardsmen can't even think about applying direct force to their weapon, because of fear of damaging it.

5. Those who live surrounded by machines, who know their behaviour, know better that it can be hit and unjammed this way.

This explanation is good for my forge world originated regiment, in which every guardsmen has the Technical Knock Talent.

That makes sense for Technical Knock, and here it wouldn't even damage my suspension of disbelief if applied to a Xenos weapon (I'd probably rationalise it as the user taking a look and guesstimating which part of the weapon does what).

What about Gun Blessing, though, which is a remote Area of Effect un-jam?

There are many times in real life where recalcitrant machinery is benefited from a percussive force. (Including computers!). Just sayin....

It's one of the weaker "space/time altering" effects that the C'Tan they worship taught them? Yeah, the "magic" of the AdMech can seem a bit hard to flub and figure sometimes. If every gun has the Machine Spirit thing, though, I would guess that the prayer they hear the Tech-Priest transmit/broadcast/say gets said machine spirit to unjam itself. This gets into weird variants of "what's a Machine Spirit?", but if I can tell a gun to fire via communing with it's machine spirit, telling it to unjam itself seems possible, too. And yeah, I don't know, before this goes any further. If Chaos Gods can grant powers, and if the Emperor very occasionally can, too, I think a Star God that was never shattered can be bothered, perhaps unwillingly, perhaps by choice, to give some nifty boons, too; they are, in their own ways, phenomenally powerful, and able to tell our normal rules of physics to please dance a jig, and then jump off a cliff (aka sci-fi hand wave).

What about Gun Blessing, though, which is a remote Area of Effect un-jam?

Four Possible explainations:

1. The ability is representative of minor psychic powers within the Adeptus Mechanicus, which have been rationalized as pseudo-science under the umbra of the Omnessiah (much how the misinformed Space Pups believe their psychic powers come from Fenris and are 'clean' comparative to other psykers).

2. The ability is representative of comparatively weak micro-waves that excite ammunition, so they pop off (resulting in unjamming). Hopefully those barrels aren't pointing anywhere important! People in the radius feel slightly nauseated.

3. The Tech Priest is actually emitting nanites to do his bidding, but he doesn't realize it or he does, and simply wishes to maintain the aura of technomagic.

4. The Omnessiah is a real entity. =P

Well, 2 wouldn't work for all types of ranged weapons (and might permanently damage others instead of fixing them!), and 3 should probably limit this ability to "Imperial" weapons whose inner workings are actually known to said nanites (not to mention that it happens ridiculously fast and is not limited by isolation). 4 is what I've been suggesting in this thread, as it seems to be the most obvious explanation concerning some of the more ... esoteric effects, especially as "divine magic" is now actually a thing in this RPG.

1 is an interesting idea that did not occur to me so far! Not bad - I suppose the lack of Perils could be explained by it being a very regulated and relatively low-power ability, which is further held in check by the religious doctrine and its effect on the psyche of the user.

Few tidbits to think about on regards of number 3:

Gun Blessing is a talent that's not existing in Only War, but in Dark Heresy, where there are no non-imperial weapons. Perhaps not so far fetched considering. On regards to speed - have no idea. We don't have any real world analogs to base an opinion on feasibility.