Commentary:

1) I have been thinking that ACD Phantoms would have been much better balanced if Advanced Cloaking Device simply had the following text at the end:

"Then receive 1 stress token."

Think about it for a minute then let it settle in - I'm pretty sure that would reduce the effectiveness of the Phantoms. You would at least know that they are almost certainly going to perform a green maneuver next turn. You can build around this by adding Captain Yorr or Wingman EPT, but this would encourage more build diversity and would be a good thing.

Edit: I would also be OK with a cost increase. 4 points is probably not enough.

2) YT-1300 + Gunner + Z-95 support I'm not as worried about being permanently dominant, unless it HAS to stay as a counter to ACD Phantoms. It's a great list but is very beatable, especially by a swarm (either faction), if you focus down the Falcon first.

Having flown the Phantom through 6 rounds to a top 4, I can honestly say that it is a ship that is very susceptible to fatigue and the vagaries of the dice. At the end of 12 hours (including a half hour for lunch and a half hour for supper), I was having a hard time making optimal decisions. Added to that, cold evade dice can really hurt a Phantom player - in my case, on two separate shots I rolled all blanks with a focus in hand. This takes nothing away from my opponent mind - he gave himself the opportunity, and although we've played the matchup repeatedly, sooner or later he was going to get me.

Regarding the YTs, I think Spokane demonstrated that there is a consequence to relying on them as a counter to Phantoms - there were quite a few that showed up - but there were a lot of lists designed to destroy them in attendance and they got frozen out as a result.

Don't know if it helps you at all, but the two 5-0 lists at the end of the Swiss were the top 4 and top 8 phantom builds. I played the ultimate winner in the fifth round and beat him in the mirror lol.

Spokane, WA, United States

July 19, 2014

Uncle's Games

Attendance: 35

wave 4 legal

Format: 5 rounds of Swiss, cut to Top 8

Info:

• Winner: Echo + Advanced Cloaking Device + Veteran Instincts + Rebel Captive; 5x Academy Pilot
• 2nd place: Blue Sq. Pilot; 2x Rookie Pilot; 3x Bandit Sq. Pilot
• Top 4 (lost to winner): Han Solo + Gunner + Chewbacca + Millennium Falcon; 2x Blue Sq. Pilot
• Top 4 (lost to 2nd place): Echo + Advanced Cloaking Device + Veteran Instincts + Rebel Captive; 5x Academy Pilot
• Top 8 (lost to Top 4 Han): Dutch + Ion Cannon Turret; Dagger Sq. Pilot + Adv Sens ; 2x Tala Sq. Pilot + Ion Pulse Missiles ; Bandit Sq. Pilot
• Top 8 (lost to Top 4 Echo): Captain Yorr + Fire Control System; 2x Omicron Group Pilot; 2x Black Squadron Pilot + Wingman
• Top 8 (lost to winner): Luke Skywalker + R2F2 + Predator; Airen Cracken + Veteran Instincts; Tarn Mison + R7; Rookie Pilot
• Top 8 (lost to 2nd place): Echo + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device + Recon Specialist; Turr Phennir + Veteran Instincts + Stealth Device; Bounty Hunter
• #9: Airen Crakcen + Swarm Tactics; Luke Skywalker + R2-D2 + Draw Their Fire; Biggs; Rookie Pilot
• #10: 2x Bounty Hunter + Gunner, 2x Academy Pilot
• #11: Whisper + Advanced Cloaking Device + Veteran Instincts + Tactician; Echo + Advanced Cloaking Device + Veteran Instincts + Tactician; Omicron Group Pilot + Vader
• #12: Wedge + Shield Upgrade + Predator; Luke Skywalker + Shield Upgrade + Predator + R2-D2; Blue Sq. Pilot + Advanced Sensors
• #13: Han Solo + Gunner + Nien Numb; Gold Sq. Pilot + Ion Cannon Turret; 2x Bandit Sq. Pilot
• #14: Luke + R2-D2 + Draw Their Fire + Shield Upgrade; Biggs; Tarn + R7; Tala Sq. Pilot
• #15: Corran Horn + Fire Control System; 2x Blue Squadron + Ion Cannon; Tala Squadron
• #16: Jan Ors + Ion Cannon Turret + Swarm Tactics; 2x Blue Sq. Pilot; 2x Bandit Sq. Pilot

I just wanted to clarify my upgrades--they don't appear on this list for some reason...

See above in bold and red.

Dang that tournament was a blast. Had so much fun with that ridiculous squad.

(edit: the original red I used was hard to read...)

12.5 hours was probably including the 3 rounds for Final Cut, which would add another 3 hours 45 minutes at the same rate, totaling 12.5 hours.

(7 rounds + 3 rounds )*1.25 hour / round = 12.5 hours

Nevermind. It was explained above...

To add to the commentary, we're seeing (at least in these first few regionals) the "near" extinction of some ship types. Some of it is that they are being replaced by new ships and the other is the meta.

1) X-wings: Even named are being pushed out a bit, but I think this is more new replacement by the cheaper Z-95.

2) Interceptors (not named Soontir): Meta (a lot of turrets) and new ship replacement (phantom does everything they do better)

3) Bombers: The meta is hurting them. Bombers swarms seem less effective and they can't really help against a phantom. I wonder if the chance the few lists that worked has passed.

I think it's too early for the Wave 4 metagame to really have reached a stable state--which makes it an interesting time for play, but not for patient, reliable analysis. We know new releases can diffuse slowly (Wave 3 was released at GenCon last year, but B-wings didn't really start to diffuse into the metagame until Worlds three months later), and they can burn bright but flame out (Interceptors were a fad early in their release, but got slapped so hard by HSF that they nearly vanished from the metagame).

But to the degree that we can make inferences, here are my comments:

(1) I think you're right about X-wings being pushed out, since they've dropped from a solid second place among all ships to a distant fourth--but only out of the "filler" role. They did drop from about 10% of all named-pilot points to only 4%, but a lot of that can be attributed to Falcon lists suddenly sucking all of the air out of the room (shot up from 8% to just over 20%.)

That is, it looks to me that what's going on isn't X-wings being replaced by Headhunters, but four-ship Rebel lists being replaced by Han and Chewie lists, which just have fewer points to spend on named X-wings. There are still 4 X-wings (Biggs, Wedge, Luke, Tarn) in the top 10 named Rebel pilots, and only one Z-95 (Cracken).

(2) I think the metagame still hasn't really figured out what to do with Interceptors, even this long post-Aces, but it really likes Phantoms so far. I think Interceptors will have a role when things settle out, but it'll be limited to using Alphas as high-quality filler and the PS6+ flanker role, where they're both cheaper than Phantoms and less vulnerable to some of the Phantom's counters.

(3) Bombers aren't being run as Phantom counters because, I think, the Falcon is so much more accessible--but they absolutely tear up the Falcon, which (as noted above) is currently making up a full 20% of all points spent on named pilots. We'll have to see how that one shakes out.

The other top 4 list from Colorado was Fat Chewie (chewbacca, predator, luke, 3po, falcon title, and engine upgrade) and 3 Talas. Lost to the runner up.

To add to the commentary, we're seeing (at least in these first few regionals) the "near" extinction of some ship types. Some of it is that they are being replaced by new ships and the other is the meta. 1) X-wings: Even named are being pushed out a bit, but I think this is more new replacement by the cheaper Z-95.2) Interceptors (not named Soontir): Meta (a lot of turrets) and new ship replacement (phantom does everything they do better)3) Bombers: The meta is hurting them. Bombers swarms seem less effective and they can't really help against a phantom. I wonder if the chance the few lists that worked has passed.

I think it's too early for the Wave 4 metagame to really have reached a stable state--which makes it an interesting time for play, but not for patient, reliable analysis. We know new releases can diffuse slowly (Wave 3 was released at GenCon last year, but B-wings didn't really start to diffuse into the metagame until Worlds three months later), and they can burn bright but flame out (Interceptors were a fad early in their release, but got slapped so hard by HSF that they nearly vanished from the metagame).But to the degree that we can make inferences, here are my comments:(1) I think you're right about X-wings being pushed out, since they've dropped from a solid second place among all ships to a distant fourth--but only out of the "filler" role. They did drop from about 10% of all named-pilot points to only 4%, but a lot of that can be attributed to Falcon lists suddenly sucking all of the air out of the room (shot up from 8% to just over 20%.)That is, it looks to me that what's going on isn't X-wings being replaced by Headhunters, but four-ship Rebel lists being replaced by Han and Chewie lists, which just have fewer points to spend on named X-wings. There are still 4 X-wings (Biggs, Wedge, Luke, Tarn) in the top 10 named Rebel pilots, and only one Z-95 (Cracken).(2) I think the metagame still hasn't really figured out what to do with Interceptors, even this long post-Aces, but it really likes Phantoms so far. I think Interceptors will have a role when things settle out, but it'll be limited to using Alphas as high-quality filler and the PS6+ flanker role, where they're both cheaper than Phantoms and less vulnerable to some of the Phantom's counters.(3) Bombers aren't being run as Phantom counters because, I think, the Falcon is so much more accessible--but they absolutely tear up the Falcon, which (as noted above) is currently making up a full 20% of all points spent on named pilots. We'll have to see how that one shakes out.

Those are good points, and I certainly agree that things may shake out differently soon, but new releases are coming much more fast and furious which will keep the meta from ever being clear for long again. Whether that's bad or good probably will depend on each of us individually.

On interceptors, they were doing very well pre-wave four and I think they had found a spot, which was pretty impressive after the fear people had of their doom with stress droids and flechettes. RG were solid ships, Alphas were being used as filler and in multiples as swarms, and both Jax and Fel were in the top 10 named ships. I do hope they make a comeback, but I almost think they struggle more against phantoms than YTs. Then there is Abaht out there, who I think would be the death of an interceptor list.

Do we have any word from Mexico yet?

I understand that we have a repeat champion

Plano, TX, United States

July 19, 2014

Madness Games and Comics

Attendance: 72

wave 4 legal

Format: 7 rounds of Swiss, Final Cut to Top 8

• Top 8 (lost to ???): Soontir Fel + Push the Limit + Hull Upgrade; Rexler Brath + Predator + Ion Cannon; Omicron Group Pilot + Vader

• Top 4 (lost to ???): Han Solo + Predator + Engine Upgrade + Millennium Falcon + Luke Skywalker + C3-P0; 3x Bandit Sq. Pilot

Fantastic time at Madness, it was amazing to see so many people playing now.

I'm really unhappy about the current meta, phantom or falcon seems the only choice.

Very glad to see that someone won with Ibtisam.

I'm really unhappy about the current meta, phantom or falcon seems the only choice.

Very glad to see that someone won with Ibtisam.

That was at a tournament that didn't allow wave 4.

It occured to me, that we should have been getting the elimination brackets all along. It's especially helpful for the wave 4 meta where we have Phantoms going up against Gunner YT-1300s. So if you know how some of the Final Cut squads got knocked out, then please let us know!

...

Plano, TX, United States

July 19, 2014

Madness Games and Comics

Attendance: 72

wave 4 legal

Format: 7 rounds of Swiss, Final Cut to Top 8

1. Winner: Whisper + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device + Advanced Sensors + Recon Specialist; Howlrunner; 3x Academy Pilot
2. 2nd place: 2x Blue Sq. Pilot + Advanced Sensors; Gold Sq. Pilot + Ion Canon Turret + R3-A2; Gold Sq. Pilot + Ion Canon Turret + Flechette Torpedoes
3. Top 4 (lost to ???): Han Solo + Predator + Engine Upgrade + Millennium Falcon + Luke Skywalker + C3-P0; 3x Bandit Sq. Pilot
4. Top 4 (lost to ???): Han Solo + Marksmanship + Gunner + C3-P0; Chewbacca + Draw Their Fire
5. Top 8 (lost to ???): Soontir Fel + Push the Limit + Hull Upgrade; Rexler Brath + Predator + Ion Cannon; Omicron Group Pilot + Vader
6. Top 8 (lost to winner): Whisper + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device + Sensor Jammer + Recon Specialist; Howlrunner; 3x Academy Pilot
7. Top 8 (lost to ???): Whisper + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device; Echo + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device + Recon Specialist; Omicron Group Pilot + Vader
8. Top 8 (lost to ???): Han Solo + Luke Skywalker + Swarm Tactics + Millennium Falcon; Biggs + R2; Prototype Pilot

Numbered for clarity, not rank.

Quarterfinals:

2 defeated 8. 7 reported losing to 3 upthread. 6 lost to 1, so 4 must have beat 5 (I didn't see this game).

Semifinals:

1 beat 4. 2 beat 3, and 2 of those Z-95s went down to Direct Hits rolled after crossing asteroids. They both happened late game, so I'm not sure if it would have made any real difference.

I'm really unhappy about the current meta, phantom or falcon seems the only choice.

Very glad to see that someone won with Ibtisam.

I ran Fett/Bounty Hunter/Backstabber, and plausibly missed the top 8 only because in Round 2, with excellent board position, I spent five rounds failing to kill a heavily damaged Jan Ors. (My opponent got a modified win by 6 points.) My other loss was to a player who did make the top 8, with Wes/Wedge/Corran. Another Regionals player had a Defender list in the top 4. The French Nationals winner ran 8 TIE Fighters.

There are lots of choices other than Phantom or Falcon; Falcon is just an easy, reliable, and therefore popular choice in a very unsettled metagame. I'd wait a few months--at least until the GenCon/US Nationals results are in--before donning sackcloth and ashes. (If the top 8 there is still heavily dominated by Phantoms and Falcons, I'll join you in the wailing and gnashing of teeth.)

It occured to me, that we should have been getting the elimination brackets all along. It's especially helpful for the wave 4 meta where we have Phantoms going up against Gunner YT-1300s. So if you know how some of the Final Cut squads got knocked out, then please let us know!

...

Plano, TX, United States

July 19, 2014

Madness Games and Comics

Attendance: 72

wave 4 legal

Format: 7 rounds of Swiss, Final Cut to Top 8

1. Winner: Whisper + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device + Advanced Sensors + Recon Specialist; Howlrunner; 3x Academy Pilot
2. 2nd place: 2x Blue Sq. Pilot + Advanced Sensors; Gold Sq. Pilot + Ion Canon Turret + R3-A2; Gold Sq. Pilot + Ion Canon Turret + Flechette Torpedoes
3. Top 4 (lost to ???): Han Solo + Predator + Engine Upgrade + Millennium Falcon + Luke Skywalker + C3-P0; 3x Bandit Sq. Pilot
4. Top 4 (lost to ???): Han Solo + Marksmanship + Gunner + C3-P0; Chewbacca + Draw Their Fire
5. Top 8 (lost to ???): Soontir Fel + Push the Limit + Hull Upgrade; Rexler Brath + Predator + Ion Cannon; Omicron Group Pilot + Vader
6. Top 8 (lost to winner): Whisper + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device + Sensor Jammer + Recon Specialist; Howlrunner; 3x Academy Pilot
7. Top 8 (lost to ???): Whisper + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device; Echo + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device + Recon Specialist; Omicron Group Pilot + Vader
8. Top 8 (lost to ???): Han Solo + Luke Skywalker + Swarm Tactics + Millennium Falcon; Biggs + R2; Prototype Pilot

Numbered for clarity, not rank.

Quarterfinals:

2 defeated 8. 7 reported losing to 3 upthread. 6 lost to 1, so 4 must have beat 5 (I didn't see this game).

Semifinals:

1 beat 4. 2 beat 3, and 2 of those Z-95s went down to Direct Hits rolled after crossing asteroids. They both happened late game, so I'm not sure if it would have made any real difference.

7 actually reported to losing to the other Top 4 Han, but thanks; updated my summary post with the brackets.

Interestingly, we ARE seeing ACD Phantoms beating some YT-1300 + Gunner builds now....

When wave 5 hits, the Phantom will decline in popularity - the two new ships are very very rough for the Phantom.

My other loss was to a player who did make the top 8, with Wes/Wedge/Corran.

Was this in Colorado? We're missing that Top 8 squad, do you remember details?

My other loss was to a player who did make the top 8, with Wes/Wedge/Corran.

Was this in Colorado? We're missing that Top 8 squad, do you remember details?

I'm only fairly sure he was in the top 8--it was a long weekend and by that point I was anxious to leave--but I'm certain he was running this :

Wes Janson (29)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Wedge Antilles (29)

Predator (3)

Corran Horn (35)

Predator (3)

Total: 100

My other loss was to a player who did make the top 8, with Wes/Wedge/Corran.

Was this in Colorado? We're missing that Top 8 squad, do you remember details?

It could have been my opponent for the top 8 round -- he ran Wes with VI, Wedge with Predator and Corran with Predator I believe.

My other loss was to a player who did make the top 8, with Wes/Wedge/Corran.

Was this in Colorado? We're missing that Top 8 squad, do you remember details?

It could have been my opponent for the top 8 round -- he ran Wes with VI, Wedge with Predator and Corran with Predator I believe.

My other loss was to a player who did make the top 8, with Wes/Wedge/Corran.

Was this in Colorado? We're missing that Top 8 squad, do you remember details?

It could have been my opponent for the top 8 round -- he ran Wes with VI, Wedge with Predator and Corran with Predator I believe.

And what did you fly? Fat Chewie?

My other loss was to a player who did make the top 8, with Wes/Wedge/Corran.

Was this in Colorado? We're missing that Top 8 squad, do you remember details?

It could have been my opponent for the top 8 round -- he ran Wes with VI, Wedge with Predator and Corran with Predator I believe.

And what did you fly? Fat Chewie?

The other top 4 list from Colorado was Fat Chewie (chewbacca, predator, luke, 3po, falcon title, and engine upgrade) and 3 Talas. Lost to the runner up.

Sorry, Yeah I ran Fat Chewie.

It occured to me, that we should have been getting the elimination brackets all along. It's especially helpful for the wave 4 meta where we have Phantoms going up against Gunner YT-1300s. So if you know how some of the Final Cut squads got knocked out, then please let us know!

...

Plano, TX, United States

July 19, 2014

Madness Games and Comics

Attendance: 72

wave 4 legal

Format: 7 rounds of Swiss, Final Cut to Top 8

1. Winner: Whisper + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device + Advanced Sensors + Recon Specialist; Howlrunner; 3x Academy Pilot
2. 2nd place: 2x Blue Sq. Pilot + Advanced Sensors; Gold Sq. Pilot + Ion Canon Turret + R3-A2; Gold Sq. Pilot + Ion Canon Turret + Flechette Torpedoes
3. Top 4 (lost to ???): Han Solo + Predator + Engine Upgrade + Millennium Falcon + Luke Skywalker + C3-P0; 3x Bandit Sq. Pilot
4. Top 4 (lost to ???): Han Solo + Marksmanship + Gunner + C3-P0; Chewbacca + Draw Their Fire
5. Top 8 (lost to ???): Soontir Fel + Push the Limit + Hull Upgrade; Rexler Brath + Predator + Ion Cannon; Omicron Group Pilot + Vader
6. Top 8 (lost to winner): Whisper + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device + Sensor Jammer + Recon Specialist; Howlrunner; 3x Academy Pilot
7. Top 8 (lost to ???): Whisper + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device; Echo + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device + Recon Specialist; Omicron Group Pilot + Vader
8. Top 8 (lost to ???): Han Solo + Luke Skywalker + Swarm Tactics + Millennium Falcon; Biggs + R2; Prototype Pilot

Numbered for clarity, not rank.

Quarterfinals:

2 defeated 8. 7 reported losing to 3 upthread. 6 lost to 1, so 4 must have beat 5 (I didn't see this game).

Semifinals:

1 beat 4. 2 beat 3, and 2 of those Z-95s went down to Direct Hits rolled after crossing asteroids. They both happened late game, so I'm not sure if it would have made any real difference.

7 actually reported to losing to the other Top 4 Han, but thanks; updated my summary post with the brackets.

Interestingly, we ARE seeing ACD Phantoms beating some YT-1300 + Gunner builds now....

I mixed up the Imperial lists. My mistake.

I (#6 above) beat several Falcon/Gunner lists including #8 above (in Swiss, obviously), a Chewie/Gunner/3P0, and a Chewie/Lando list without losing Whisper in any of those games. Phantoms were losing to all sorts of lists all over the tournament, though, so I'm not terribly concerned about the state of the game. As Vorpal Sword mentioned, this is a post-release transient meta which should stabilize soon. The Phantom is new and cool, and the Falcon is familiar and reliable, so we are seeing some uniform list building at the moment.

There are lots of choices other than Phantom or Falcon; Falcon is just an easy, reliable, and therefore popular choice in a very unsettled metagame. I'd wait a few months--at least until the GenCon/US Nationals results are in--before donning sackcloth and ashes. (If the top 8 there is still heavily dominated by Phantoms and Falcons, I'll join you in the wailing and gnashing of teeth.)

I really wish people would stop saying we should until after Gen Con to make judgement on Wave 4. Once Gen Con hits, any pure Wave 4 meta is likely gone - Rebel Aces will likely have been released or be insanely close and we'll be onto that form of the meta.

If 90% of the wave was Phantoms and Falcons, then the wave was Phantoms and Falcons.

I still maintain that the Z-95 is going to be a bigger long-term meta changer than the Phantom. Half the reason that Falcons are doing so well is because the Z-95 is a REALLY cost efficient filler, so it's made Falcon + support builds even better.

Rebel Aces won't shake up the meta as much as wave 4. Cheap A-wings will also make good filler, but their overall cost efficiency is on par with the B-wing, so I don't expect it to fundamentally change anything. A-wings will get splashed around finally, Keyan will be let loose in a few lists, and that's about it.

I still maintain that the Z-95 is going to be a bigger long-term meta changer than the Phantom. Half the reason that Falcons are doing so well is because the Z-95 is a REALLY cost efficient filler, so it's made Falcon + support builds even better.

.

While I'm not sure how much the Z-95 has helped, I don't think it's an surprise that a cheap, decent filler ship is going to impact the long term meta. It's why the TIE fighter has been so useful (even moreso because of Howl). Of course, it will be interesting to see if predator starts to get more use and impacts that. A prototype A-wing with refit will also be a better blocker and more survivable, so it will provide an interesting choice.

As for how much Z-95s will change the meta compared to the phantom, I just don't think that's possible. From a simple numbers perspective it's going to be tough as one phantom accounts for three bandits and often a few more points. From simply a squad construction perspective, I don't think the Z-95 will ever impact the way people think about building their squad as much as the phantom already has, and the Z-95 fillers take a back seat to whatever it is supporting.