Event Date: July 20, 2014
Venue Name: Oversoul Hobby Store
Location: Ankara, Turkey
Attendance: 11
Final Cut: Top 4

• Winner: Bounty Hunter x2; Soontir-Fel + Push the Limit + Stealth Device
• 2nd place: Howlrunner + Stealth Device + Push the Limit; Backstabber; 5x Academy Pilot
• Top 4: Lando Calrissian + MR Title + Gunner + Determination + Nien Nunb; Chewbacca + Gunner + Draw Their Fire
• Top 4: Chewbacca + MF Title + Expert Handling + Luke Skywalker; Blue Squadron Pilot B-Wing + Fire Control System x2

Or people realize how to maneuver when facing a Phantom. Just like in the runaway A-wings situation, it is not impossible to line up arcs on the Phantom.

I keep hearing that people may learn to fly against it. Some will. But obviously it ain't easy, and right about 50% of players are below average. Let's not act like because some few figure it out and also can manage it that it will change the overall meta. There are going to be enough players that can't do it and will just throw their hands up and play gunner-turret or Phantom. And some that can do it will still play gunner-turret or Phantom. We'll still be slogging through those types of lists in most fights even if something totally different wins Nationals. And that is my issue. Something else may come out of Wave IV as the ultimate winner, but it looks that we're going to be facing the same lists over and over.

Well the thing is many "average" or "below average" players will be using the Phantom too, these players will still lock their dial in with the 1 decloak option in mind. If you know which option that is then you should have no problem figuring out their maneuver

Yes, I know there will be bad Phantom players. And I know there will be bad gunner-turrets. And good players and everything in-between. I don't think the Phantom is unbeatable, just like gunner-turret isn't unbeatable. They are both quite beatable. That is 100% NOT what my point is. An overwhelming number of players are playing (and will continue to play) one of the two. I'd like to play in tournaments where I face all sorts of different list types, not just two, even if I can beat them. That part of it isn't changing in any substantial way.

I can see it now. A 4-ship rebel build without gunner turret wins GenCon and everyone says "see GaZ, you were totally wrong about that." But I'm not talking about what wins, or a ship being "broken" or unbeatable. If that guy waded through a dozen Falcons and Phantoms to get the win, then I will have been right. I'm not saying the builds are too tough, I'm saying the phantom meta makes them too common, and by a long stretch.

I have been working out a very strong strategy Vs the Phantom, using a 4 ship rebel build. It does help that most people whom fly the Phantom are unaware of its vulnerability . There is always a counter tactic for every tactic. Sure the phantom can be a slippery sucker with a mean bite. One on one against a Phantom is near impossible with out the Phantom making a mistake. Two on one is a different story, while three to one that Phantom is in deep trouble.

I would love to post in my movement guide the tactics to stop the tri-winged menace. Once I have the full strategy worked out, I will. That may not be until after GenCon however

You are not going to block a phantom if you are not already playing something swarmy. 4 ships is not swarmy enough, i would just run away with the phantom while the ties kill you. I feel pretty confident doing 3 vs 1 on the phantom btw . The only thing that can give me some troubles with the phantom, is PS9 moving after me, and it's more about being overconfident than just being countered.

It seems like i decided to jump into xwing into its worst moment. Hope FFG catches up.

Because the Phantom can decloak in one of 3 ways it's impossible to block in the traditional way of thinking. I've highlighted the relevant parts of our two post.

Yeah i know where you were going with it, since that's actually how i had been dealing with phantoms on my own, blocking their movements, and forcing them to move to places where they can't shoot. Anyways it is a bit of a gamble, but it works sometimes. The problem is when the phantom just refuse to combat and you have to make a choice, bit the bait and pursue the phantom and get the ties on your tail (literally) or confront the ties and get flanked by the phantom.

I had plenty of games vs 4 reb ships and never had a real trouble, of course this could be just personal experience, so in no way i would tell you to stop testing stuff, but the oppossite, i am just sharing my experiences thus far

Event Date: July 20, 2014

Venue Name: Oversoul Hobby Store

Location: Ankara, Turkey

Attendance: 11

Final Cut: Top 4

• Winner: Bounty Hunter x2; Soontir-Fel + Push the Limit + Stealth Device
• 2nd place: Howlrunner + Stealth Device + Push the Limit; Backstabber; 5x Academy Pilot
• Top 4: Lando Calrissian + MR Title + Gunner + Determination + Nien Nunb; Chewbacca + Gunner + Draw Their Fire
• Top 4: Chewbacca + MF Title + Expert Handling + Luke Skywalker; Blue Squadron Pilot B-Wing + Fire Control System x2

Interesting, no Wave 4 stuff in the top 4, was any present in the tournament?

Yeah i know where you were going with it, since that's actually how i had been dealing with phantoms on my own, blocking their movements, and forcing them to move to places where they can't shoot. Anyways it is a bit of a gamble, but it works sometimes. The problem is when the phantom just refuse to combat and you have to make a choice, bit the bait and pursue the phantom and get the ties on your tail (literally) or confront the ties and get flanked by the phantom.

I had plenty of games vs 4 reb ships and never had a real trouble, of course this could be just personal experience, so in no way i would tell you to stop testing stuff, but the oppossite, i am just sharing my experiences thus far

I've always dealt with the Swarm first in my exercises. Yes this leaves room for a Phantom to come in and cause problems. The more aggressive the Phantom player the easier it is to trap it. If it is not aggressive enough the mini swarm gets picked apart to quickly. I do get you are not saying the Phantom is overpowering but that the meta is being thinned down to Phantom squad vs anti-Phantom squad. The Phantom is a good ship and very popular. If you're planning to attend any tournament, you'd better have a plan. Right now that plan is to load up a YT-1300 and let the Phantom dance as you'll always get in shots. There are other tactics you can use to fight the Phantom. I've yet to see anyone talk about a sound asteroid placement against a Phantom, I believe there is one.

Neither comparison is really good. The truth is that the game was less figured out 1 year ago, than it is now. It is easier and faster to react to current trends than it was before, and be more accurate in making judgements on new ships an abilities. I don't think you need 3 months to figure it out by now . I don't know, Overreaction ? Doubtful, it probably has more to do with my current an individual perception (basically, i am right now 21-2 with whisper, both those loses, to han) than overreacting. Not only that, but the overreaction is more productive than people give it credit for, since it obsess players to get effective ways to deal with it, experiment, and start cutting edges afterwards.

Following your argument and line of thought, instead of argueing about "how people yell the sky is falling every now and then" we could be more productive and discuss how do you think you would deal with the current phantom/falcon meta ?

The Meta is always shifting and moving. It breaths like a beast, inhaling and exhaling. I've been part of competitive tournament scenes for nearly a decade. I've never seen a meta solved. Even in games where the player experiences are much deeper than this game and the player base out numbers X-Wing by at least 50-1. Someone always finds a way to shake things up. A good balanced Meta with have a minimum of three competitively viable decks, squads or army's. you'll often here people refer to this as Paper Rock Scissors. Right now we have 2 of the 3 figured out. The question really becomes where does the 3rd fit.

You want people to stop saying "the sky is falling". You only help fuel the fear by giving the example of your 21-2 record. By also, saying the only 2 losses are from a YT you cement the discussion shut. Your own conclusion matches what the Meta is doing, trying to counter the Phantom with YT's.

Regarding asteroid placement against phantom, let's discuss. My feeling right now is spreading the asteroids to a range 2 distance from each other. Since Echo is using a 2 bank maneuver it has a bigger berth before the maneuver. Traditional swarm asteroid placement is to do asteroids at 45 degree angle at the Range 1 distance.

Thoughts?

I would say the third is quite clear, that is swarms against those falcons. Anyways, of course it is my conclusion, based on my own experience. I think the fear is good to be honest, it gives legitimate ways to construct builds that can deal with it, and once you start figuring it out, cut the edges to stop being specifically designed to beat X, but being a more balanced approach.

The best spot for asteroids clusters in my experience is on the middle, force the mini swarm to joust you in one of the sides, and the phantom would need to be near those asteroids to flank you, or fight side by side with the tie fighters, whom more often than not molest him, and allow you to shoot him given the chance.

My record is personal experience, i just post it to explain a bit why i have such a strong position, people shouldn't take it as a kind of argument. YT's are the obvious and easiest soft counter (i say soft counter, because the games i lost, i feel like i just played it out poorly, not due to being neutered). I had defeated phantom with a few imperial lists not using phantom, but i felt most of those games were more due to the player haven't adapted yet to the ship, more than my mindgames.

And yes, i do not find phantom something invincible or unstoppable, point taken about not cementing the fear, but well, i hope i made myself clear why i don't find it that annoying.

One month...

And people feel comfortable making the level of declarations about the state of the game that are getting made? Despite constant examples, both in this game and others, of initial impressions being only part of the full picture. Of things taking time to click with the larger group. Of things that just take a little more time and testing to work.

X-wing must be doing quite well as a product to draw in so many first time competitive gamers.

The thing people are missing here is this isn't a product that came out in january and there has been little to no tournament scene and just a bunch of random posts on the boards about falcons/phantoms. This has been one month in the competitive tournament season. All months are not created equal. People are putting in a TON of time and effort playing/practicing right now condensing dozens, possibly even hundreds of games in a month/month and a half span. Some of the more skilled and competitive players in the game are still gravitating towards phantom/falcon. It is absolutely wrecking the regional scene, not just random locals. Plus don't act like some people weren't playing with these ships for another 2 months or w/e ahead of release on vassal (and again, those tend to be high end players such as paul heaver himself etc). All that THREE months or so has told them is that it's the era of the phantom and falcon right now (and maybe tie swarm hanging around a bit).

Event Date: July 20, 2014

Venue Name: Oversoul Hobby Store

Location: Ankara, Turkey

Attendance: 11

Final Cut: Top 4

• Winner: Bounty Hunter x2; Soontir-Fel + Push the Limit + Stealth Device
• 2nd place: Howlrunner + Stealth Device + Push the Limit; Backstabber; 5x Academy Pilot
• Top 4: Lando Calrissian + MR Title + Gunner + Determination + Nien Nunb; Chewbacca + Gunner + Draw Their Fire
• Top 4: Chewbacca + MF Title + Expert Handling + Luke Skywalker; Blue Squadron Pilot B-Wing + Fire Control System x2

Interesting, no Wave 4 stuff in the top 4, was any present in the tournament?

Tournament was in Turkey, I'm sure wave 4 was just not legal/available yet.

FYI I have been continuously updating results for Week 12 here:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/105107-2014-regionals-results/page-33#entry1164068

If you haven't checked it recently, it's been updated quite a bit in the last 24 hours. I only pulled in the Malaysia results into my Excel sheet, and caught some odd squad values. I may catch some more as I pull the rest into Excel, I'll update with red highlights when I do.

Statistics summary is still a couple days out at this rate. I have lots of painting to do at home.

Event Date: July 20, 2014

Venue Name: Oversoul Hobby Store

Location: Ankara, Turkey

Attendance: 11

Final Cut: Top 4

• Winner: Bounty Hunter x2; Soontir-Fel + Push the Limit + Stealth Device
• 2nd place: Howlrunner + Stealth Device + Push the Limit; Backstabber; 5x Academy Pilot
• Top 4: Lando Calrissian + MR Title + Gunner + Determination + Nien Nunb; Chewbacca + Gunner + Draw Their Fire
• Top 4: Chewbacca + MF Title + Expert Handling + Luke Skywalker; Blue Squadron Pilot B-Wing + Fire Control System x2

Interesting, no Wave 4 stuff in the top 4, was any present in the tournament?

Wave 4 stuff were not allowed as they were not available from the distributor.

Remember when this was a Regionals results thread... I miss those days...

Remember when this was a Regionals results thread... I miss those days...

You need some banter on the thread to help keep it on the front page. As long as the discussions are civil, no harm in it.

Remember when this was a Regionals results thread... I miss those days...

You need some banter on the thread to help keep it on the front page. As long as the discussions are civil, no harm in it.

Yeah, but I have to scroll to Page 33-35 to see the CO, WA, TX Regional results as they aren't updated on Page 1.

Remember when this was a Regionals results thread... I miss those days...

You need some banter on the thread to help keep it on the front page. As long as the discussions are civil, no harm in it.

Yeah, but I have to scroll to Page 33-35 to see the CO, WA, TX Regional results as they aren't updated on Page 1.

Working on it. Until then, you can get there with this link on the first page. It's directly below "Wave 4 Consolidated Results".

MajorJuggler, I don't want you to think I was being rude. I think you're doing a great job.

Oh no worries, I was just trying to be helpful!

If one person asks then there are probably 10 more wondering the same thing.

I second with Deltmi, the Admins can pin this. Take the meta talk elsewhere please and keep THAT active. I still haven't seen a report from Mexico's Regionals from the weekend....or maybe it's buried in here and I just missed it....

Does anyone know who the top 4 at Spokane are? (names/screen names)?

Does anyone know who the top 4 at Spokane are? (names/screen names)?

I do not. You could try emailing [email protected]

Statistics Summary

Excel File

I am tracking the data in an Excel spreadsheet and uploading it periodically. The filesize is ~50MB, and can be download here

Question about your pilot/ship breakdowns. Do the percentages represent the percentage of LISTS that contain those ships/pilots, or the percentage of total ships that ship represents?

I know three of the top 4 -

Executor (winner)

bgFish (runner-up)

Myself (top 4 Echo)

We all drove down to the event together lol.

Statistics Summary

Excel File

I am tracking the data in an Excel spreadsheet and uploading it periodically. The filesize is ~50MB, and can be download here

Question about your pilot/ship breakdowns. Do the percentages represent the percentage of LISTS that contain those ships/pilots, or the percentage of total ships that ship represents?

The latter: points spent on ships, and weighted by ranking and attendance. The only time I look at lists is in the Squad Archetype breakdown, which weights the entire squad by ranking and attendance.

I know three of the top 4 -

Executor (winner)

bgFish (runner-up)

Myself (top 4 Echo)

We all drove down to the event together lol.

Dang, that car is Epic Win! Congratulations!