I just watched the Danish regional (the 3v3 with high PS Rebels) and was just stunned at how basic the level of play was. So many rookie errors in deployment, targeting, flying (Luke crashed in the first combat round... forgetting to shoot with Wes... K-turning through an asteroid in a final...) just... incredibly upsetting.

It seems X-Wing isn't a game where the best pilots rise to the top, at least not in small tournaments.

Yes exactly. Obviously more so one the part of the second place player. And as far as the finals for worlds 2013 goes, I think there was a wierd barrel roll near the end or something, and the rookie x-wing was kinda strange, but I don't think this can be compared to "I banked my two guys I started right next to each other into each other on turn two". Isn't that a spacing thing that most players seem to learn in their first 10 games or so? It wasn't like he set up in some great way and the winner handled it even better. The second the runnner up even put his ships on the table you knew it was going to be ugly. What's the point of even having draw their fire for example and then putting wes in b.f.e. Look at the maunevers/angles of attack for the first 3 turns of that worlds match. I'm not sure how that is even a comparison.

I just got email updates from the Santiago, Chile Regional this last weekend. It was small, with only 12 players, but has some very interesting results! It has an E-wing and a Defender! Looks like we have our first "Etahn Swarm" with 5 rebel ships.

Edit: Email update / clarification, they did in fact have elimination rounds with the top 4.

Grats to the e-wing winning the local....er regional tournament. Good thing someone figured out how to beat that howlrunner 4 ship list. That thing has been an absolute terror in the meta. Especially with that deadly predator + fcs combo on the phantom. We should give chile 3 more regionals to more accurately delve into the diverse meta there.

/facepalm

/end sarcasm

Must be nice to so easily win hundreds of dollars worth of prize support.

Statistics on this thread are weighted as: attendance / squad placement

So the #1 winner will be weighted the same as Top 4 in a 48 player tournament. And since there are only 4 lists here, the smaller tournaments contribute less to the overall statistics. All 4 squads combined contribute the same overall weighting as a single 2nd place squad in a 48 person tournament.

Give them more time and maybe they will have a rocking Regional next year!

Ya that's good that it doesn't throw off your metric much. You've done an incredible job not just in collecting and organizing the data, but in coming up with weighting it all.

Grats to the e-wing winning the local....er regional tournament. Good thing someone figured out how to beat that howlrunner 4 ship list. That thing has been an absolute terror in the meta. Especially with that deadly predator + fcs combo on the phantom. We should give chile 3 more regionals to more accurately delve into the diverse meta there.

/facepalm

/end sarcasm

Must be nice to so easily win hundreds of dollars worth of prize support.

Well that part was dead serious, it must be nice to show up and get tokens worth at least 100 bucks and dice worth even more. Granted you may not want to sell them, but of course you could. And they do sell.

Nice to see an E-wing take a Regionals.

Kingston, gaming Nexus. Results after 6 rounds (pulled from their website)

Standings After Round 6

Rank First Last Army From Match Points SoS Points Destroyed Points Lost

1 Grish Jedi Knight Rebel Toronto 28 113 367 162

2 Gerry Russell Rebel Buffalo 25 128 447 199

3 Norm Weir Rebel Toronto 25 101 482 178

4 William Tink Imperial Toronto 23 126 399 228

5 Rick Sidebotham Imperial North Carolina 23 98 488 128

6 Edward Scanlon Rebel Toronto 20 119 361 278

7 Bron Chatwood Imperial Toronto 20 100 431 332

8 Jeffrey Dunford Imperial Gatineau 20 99 472 350

9 Trevor Ryan Rebel Gatineau 20 95 432 272

10 Benoit Philippe Girouard Rebel Montreal 20 95 500 280

11 Dany Laberge Imperial Gatineau 20 89 395 180

12 Alissa McDonough Rebel Nexus 20 81 419 380

13 Jonathan Jefferson Imperial Nexus 15 113 386 316

14 Erik Pinchette Imperial Gatineau 15 98 356 372

15 Ciaran Russell Rebel Buffalo 15 98 375 349

16 Gianni Rossi Rebel Gatineau 15 94 183 371

17 Emily Parker Rebel Toronto 15 90 406 376

18 Mike Holden Rebel Nexus 15 78 373 297

19 Max Beninger Rebel Nexus 15 67 422 331

20 Adam Golden Imperial Nexus 13 88 327 452

21 James Binnie Rebel Toronto 10 89 290 257

22 Shereef Ishak Imperial Sudbury 10 80 246 495

23 Michael Clark Rebel Nexus 10 76 369 500

24 Roger Smith Rebel Nexus 10 71 201 252

25 Cameron Carmichael Imperial Trenton 10 69 309 392

26 Jordan Racey Imperial Nexus 10 66 315 447

27 Garrett Lowe Imperial Gatineau 8 74 262 458

28 Stephen Makarucha Rebel Nexus 6 81 211 425

29 Connor Makarucha Imperial Nexus 6 64 242 389

30 Eric Morrin Imperial Nexus 5 96 220 423

31 Jason Matheson Rebel Nexus 5 73 183 429

32 Zach Matheson Imperial Nexus 5 50 209 361

Top 4 Lists

Rick was running:

• TIE Phantom / Whisper / Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device + Gunner + Fire Control System
• TIE Interceptor / Soontir Fel / Push the Limit
• Lambda Shuttle / Captain Yorr

Gerry was running:

• Z-95 Headhunter / Airen Cracken / Swarm Tactics + Shield Upgrade
• 3 x Z-95 Headhunter / Tala Squadron Pilot
• 3 x Z-95 Headhunter / Bandit Squadron Pilot

Grish was running:

• YT-1300 / Han Solo / Millenium Falcon + Luke Skywalker + C-3PO + Predator + Engine Upgrade
• 3 x Z-95 Headhunter / Bandit Squadron Pilot

Edward was running:

• 4 x B-Wing / Blue Squadron Pilot
• Z-95 Headhunter / Bandit Squadron Pilot

That's all the information I could find.

IIRC, Benoit's #10 list was:

Han Solo + Marksmanship + Gunner + C3PO + Engine Upgrade + Millennium Falcon title

Airen Cracken + Swarm Tactics

Bandit Squadron + Assault Missiles

I recall destroying the Bandit (which had focused as its action) at PS8 via swarming from Howlrunner through Mauler to an Alpha, only to have Cracken shoot next and give a TL to the Bandit to fire its Assault Missile into Mauler (2 damage to Mauler + 4 splash damage) all via simultaneous fire. Later, he used Swarm Tactics to bring Han's PS down to 8 so he could benefit from an offensive action granted by Cracken. Very creative!

If you plan to eventually complete the 32, here's what I remember from the squads I played against (outside the top 11):

#15: Ciaran Russell

Outer Rim Smuggler (27)

Gold Squadron + Ion Cannon Turret + R3-A2 (25)

Blue Squadron + Fire Control System (24)

Blue Squadron + Fire Control System (24)

#28: Stephen Makarucha:

Wedge Antilles + ?? (?)

Luke Skywalker + R2-D2 ?? (32)

Ten Numb + Autoblaster (36)

+ 3 points of upgrades (Predator? PtL? Marksmanship?)

#31: Jason Matheson:

Wedge Antilles + R5-K6 + Marksmanship (34)

Luke Skywalker + Veteran Instinct + R2-D2 + Shield Upgrade (37)

Biggs Darklighter + R2-F2 (28)

Now I just hope that Rick doesn't also travel to the GA regional... . Just a little closer than Canada.

Grats to the e-wing winning the local....er regional tournament. Good thing someone figured out how to beat that howlrunner 4 ship list. That thing has been an absolute terror in the meta. Especially with that deadly predator + fcs combo on the phantom. We should give chile 3 more regionals to more accurately delve into the diverse meta there.

/facepalm

/end sarcasm

Must be nice to so easily win hundreds of dollars worth of prize support.

Kinda don't understand the hate here. What does it matter to you how many people were at their regional?

I mean if it's such a big deal, you could always fly down there next year and play there yourself. There are only 2 regionals in the entire South American continent. North America has 22.

The people who won there deserved to win there. No need to be a jerk about it.

Ya w/e I think other frustrations with the organized play system might be bleeding over a bit. And again, as long as it doesn't skew the results of the otherwise helpful information Juggler has compiled I guess it doesn't matter much. Let's just not take the e-wing list too seriously is all.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the winning list. The E-wing itself may be overcosted, but Etahn's ability is pretty good. I haven't MathWinged it yet, but I probably will in the next couple weeks. You want to use Etahn in a 5-6 ship build, so his usage is ideal. It may even be more ideal to use him in a 5 ship list where 3 ships are firing with 3 attack dice, rather than a 6 ship list with only 1 ship with 3 attack dice, since that increases the odds of those two 3-attack ships getting crits through.

It is brilliant in its simplicity and efficiency, get 4 really good ships, and support them with Etahn who is the tankiest of the group. I'll bet it would hold up OK against BXXZZZ.

Ya etahn is fun. Even better with 5zs. But you really think it's going to consistently beat a phantom? If that phantom had better support, like it would in a list in a bigger regional, what's etahn and company going to do? Also there's no way of knowing if that phantom ran over an asteroid into death or what.

I did have that thought though of having the couple ships with 3 attack opposed to one more ship mostly for if etahn goes down early-ish somehow. I've seen an etahn + 5 talas do reasonably well but struggle with obvisouly phantoms, and actually recon spec firesprays since alot of the attacks only have 2 dice.

I just watched the Danish regional (the 3v3 with high PS Rebels) and was just stunned at how basic the level of play was. So many rookie errors in deployment, targeting, flying (Luke crashed in the first combat round... forgetting to shoot with Wes... K-turning through an asteroid in a final...) just... incredibly upsetting.

It seems X-Wing isn't a game where the best pilots rise to the top, at least not in small tournaments.

LOL, while parts of what you say/write is indisputably true (mistakes were made) I would still like to ask if you are able to see how incredibly rude you come off?? You have zero to no further knowledge than what you see in the battle report and yet you are able to deduct all kind of stuff in your mind?

It shall be no secret that it is my battle report and I was the winning player, and you may say what you feel like about my play/tactics (or lack thereof?) but oversimplifying and thereby insulting my opponent and all our oppononents during the event (of 5 Swiss Rounds and then the semi finals) and (IMO) out of line and extremely narrow minded.

As I started off saying: yes, errors were made. And I capitalized as much as possible in the navigational "errors" or misjudge mental as soon as I saw them. But I had also tried to force them and I had selected my primary target(s) a after the setup. And I'll be happy to let you know that my opponent was kicking himself as soon as he realized his Wedge/Luke error in the 2nd/3rd movement

Without further (totally unwarranted) comparisons I would like to ask you to review the 2013 Worlds final: in your words multiple bad calls, poor maneuvers and similar were made. I am 100% sure that you would have done better but only bad luck or (I hope not) sickness must have kept you from being there and winning?

I wish you all the best of luck and see a promising career in diplomacy for you, and I will be looking very much forward to see the stream of your 2014 Worlds game. It'll be flawless

Sincerely Niko

Sorry to bruise your ego dear chap but there wasn't any rudeness intended, just plain fact. If rudeness is honesty, then so be it. I watched the game, all 30 minutes of it, on Youtube, so I know exactly how the game went down; it's hardly a secondhand account. And yes, you can deduce plenty from watching a game from deployment to finish; the nuances of play are blindingly obvious to an experienced pilot.

Nowhere did I insult you or your opponents (unless you consider yourself an X-Wing ace and 'basic' is an affront to your ego)

but you have to realise that the top X-Wing players don't deploy facing asteroids for a reason, don't deploy in the middle of the map, or perform a K-Turn as their first manoeuvre. Your Ibtisam had a HLC and is the most valuable/primary target for your opponent; yet you led with her instead of keeping at Range 3 where she does the most damage and can roll an additional evade dice.

Granted most of the terminal mistakes were made by your opponent (Wes flanking for some reason; deploying into the asteroid field; Wedge blocking Luke in the vital first round; K-turning over an Asteroid for no reason; Splitting fire into Wedge instead of focusing down Ibtisam;) so in that sense the better player did win, to me the standard of play wasn't what I had come to expect from a Regional.

Of course mistakes were made in the Worlds Final. Mistakes are made in all games, and by reviewing our mistakes we improve. If you can't learn from your victories, you'll be forced to learn from your defeats.

I'm not sure where my career in diplomacy is meant to go since I'm not a diplomat but thanks for your kind wishes!

I don't think there's anything wrong with the winning list. The E-wing itself may be overcosted, but Etahn's ability is pretty good. I haven't MathWinged it yet, but I probably will in the next couple weeks. You want to use Etahn in a 5-6 ship build, so his usage is ideal. It may even be more ideal to use him in a 5 ship list where 3 ships are firing with 3 attack dice, rather than a 6 ship list with only 1 ship with 3 attack dice, since that increases the odds of those two 3-attack ships getting crits through.

It is brilliant in its simplicity and efficiency, get 4 really good ships, and support them with Etahn who is the tankiest of the group. I'll bet it would hold up OK against BXXZZZ.

The point of Etahn isn't to get crits through, it's to get volume of crits rather than quality of crits (otherwise he'd be bettter off just running a Bloodmoon and 2xFCS. Rather, that list could have been soundly defeated by Echo but as the 2nd place winner fielded Echo with FCS, Predator and Howlrunner (?) it would seem the player had a poor grasp of basic game mechanics (or just really, really wanted those re-rolls.)

Anyway the frustration is being fed by the fact that regional prizes are seemingly easy to win at small events but much more difficult to win at large ones, where the standard of play is much higher. Thus, winning a regional is no guarantee of skill but possibly more representative of luck and the smaller regional perhaps devalue the glory of the 'Regional Champion' title.

The reason most of us play competitively is surely that we hope to out-fly our opponents, not out-dice them...

I don't think there's anything wrong with the winning list. The E-wing itself may be overcosted, but Etahn's ability is pretty good. I haven't MathWinged it yet, but I probably will in the next couple weeks. You want to use Etahn in a 5-6 ship build, so his usage is ideal. It may even be more ideal to use him in a 5 ship list where 3 ships are firing with 3 attack dice, rather than a 6 ship list with only 1 ship with 3 attack dice, since that increases the odds of those two 3-attack ships getting crits through.

It is brilliant in its simplicity and efficiency, get 4 really good ships, and support them with Etahn who is the tankiest of the group. I'll bet it would hold up OK against BXXZZZ.

The point of Etahn isn't to get crits through, it's to get volume of crits rather than quality of crits (otherwise he'd be bettter off just running a Bloodmoon and 2xFCS.

With only 2 attack dice, you won't even land a single hit far more often than when you are attacking with 3 dice. Converting a regular hit to a critical hit doesn't matter if it's cancelled. Etahn's AoE crits are less likely to get cancelled coming from those B-wings, so its mathematically possible that actually more of them get through with ZZBB support rather than 5Z. Like I said, I haven't run the numbers yet.

Back to Regionals data...

I found 2 more tournaments that I was unaware of at RojoCinco , both in Spain. Both are older tournaments, wave 3: Jerez (25 players), and Valencia (51 players).

I'm consolidating all week 11 data and those 2 tournaments... processing...

I don't think there's anything wrong with the winning list. The E-wing itself may be overcosted, but Etahn's ability is pretty good. I haven't MathWinged it yet, but I probably will in the next couple weeks. You want to use Etahn in a 5-6 ship build, so his usage is ideal. It may even be more ideal to use him in a 5 ship list where 3 ships are firing with 3 attack dice, rather than a 6 ship list with only 1 ship with 3 attack dice, since that increases the odds of those two 3-attack ships getting crits through.

It is brilliant in its simplicity and efficiency, get 4 really good ships, and support them with Etahn who is the tankiest of the group. I'll bet it would hold up OK against BXXZZZ.

The point of Etahn isn't to get crits through, it's to get volume of crits rather than quality of crits (otherwise he'd be bettter off just running a Bloodmoon and 2xFCS. Rather, that list could have been soundly defeated by Echo but as the 2nd place winner fielded Echo with FCS, Predator and Howlrunner (?) it would seem the player had a poor grasp of basic game mechanics (or just really, really wanted those re-rolls.)

Anyway the frustration is being fed by the fact that regional prizes are seemingly easy to win at small events but much more difficult to win at large ones, where the standard of play is much higher. Thus, winning a regional is no guarantee of skill but possibly more representative of luck and the smaller regional perhaps devalue the glory of the 'Regional Champion' title.

The reason most of us play competitively is surely that we hope to out-fly our opponents, not out-dice them...

And luck will always be a part of the game. When a with one hull remaining ship survives because you rolled three evades, it's not your skill. Unless you somehow have a skill at dice rolling, in which case you needs to go to Vegas and avoid the pit bosses.

I just watched the Danish regional (the 3v3 with high PS Rebels) and was just stunned at how basic the level of play was. So many rookie errors in deployment, targeting, flying (Luke crashed in the first combat round... forgetting to shoot with Wes... K-turning through an asteroid in a final...) just... incredibly upsetting.

It seems X-Wing isn't a game where the best pilots rise to the top, at least not in small tournaments.

LOL, while parts of what you say/write is indisputably true (mistakes were made) I would still like to ask if you are able to see how incredibly rude you come off?? You have zero to no further knowledge than what you see in the battle report and yet you are able to deduct all kind of stuff in your mind?

It shall be no secret that it is my battle report and I was the winning player, and you may say what you feel like about my play/tactics (or lack thereof?) but oversimplifying and thereby insulting my opponent and all our oppononents during the event (of 5 Swiss Rounds and then the semi finals) and (IMO) out of line and extremely narrow minded.

As I started off saying: yes, errors were made. And I capitalized as much as possible in the navigational "errors" or misjudge mental as soon as I saw them. But I had also tried to force them and I had selected my primary target(s) a after the setup. And I'll be happy to let you know that my opponent was kicking himself as soon as he realized his Wedge/Luke error in the 2nd/3rd movement

Without further (totally unwarranted) comparisons I would like to ask you to review the 2013 Worlds final: in your words multiple bad calls, poor maneuvers and similar were made. I am 100% sure that you would have done better but only bad luck or (I hope not) sickness must have kept you from being there and winning?

I wish you all the best of luck and see a promising career in diplomacy for you, and I will be looking very much forward to see the stream of your 2014 Worlds game. It'll be flawless

Sincerely Niko

Sorry to bruise your ego dear chap but there wasn't any rudeness intended, just plain fact. If rudeness is honesty, then so be it. I watched the game, all 30 minutes of it, on Youtube, so I know exactly how the game went down; it's hardly a secondhand account. And yes, you can deduce plenty from watching a game from deployment to finish; the nuances of play are blindingly obvious to an experienced pilot.

Nowhere did I insult you or your opponents (unless you consider yourself an X-Wing ace and 'basic' is an affront to your ego)

but you have to realise that the top X-Wing players don't deploy facing asteroids for a reason, don't deploy in the middle of the map, or perform a K-Turn as their first manoeuvre. Your Ibtisam had a HLC and is the most valuable/primary target for your opponent; yet you led with her instead of keeping at Range 3 where she does the most damage and can roll an additional evade dice.

Granted most of the terminal mistakes were made by your opponent (Wes flanking for some reason; deploying into the asteroid field; Wedge blocking Luke in the vital first round; K-turning over an Asteroid for no reason; Splitting fire into Wedge instead of focusing down Ibtisam;) so in that sense the better player did win, to me the standard of play wasn't what I had come to expect from a Regional.

Of course mistakes were made in the Worlds Final. Mistakes are made in all games, and by reviewing our mistakes we improve. If you can't learn from your victories, you'll be forced to learn from your defeats.

I'm not sure where my career in diplomacy is meant to go since I'm not a diplomat but thanks for your kind wishes!

Nice to see you elaborate a bit on your points but it seems like you're still not quite able to grasp that your initial post (no matter how it was intended) easily could be conceived rude (and I still believe that it is).

And no, I do not consider myself an "Ace" and I will most likely never aspire to much fame in this game or many/any others due to this one simple fact that will most likely seem incomprehensible to so many: I simply like to do unexpected/risky/experimental setup/squad/moves simply because I have fun playing it so. I will never be able to become that guy with the first 3-5 moves planned out and rehearsed for hours. And yes, I know doing a series of koiograns in the first round most likely never will become a classic opening move and nor should it become mine. Because I think that if I consistently would always do the expected/normal move that "everyone" does then my opponents will always know what I will do and will be able to take proper precautions.

But hey: that's just me. And though I/we must sadly settle for "basic play" and never face superior players like you (btw, I haven't seen your Regionals final stream?) I/we and you may at least find some comfort in knowing that we DO have a lot of fun and I do enjoy the game and making honest/unedited Battle reports that also put the less clever bits on display for you to enjoyment and simultaneous dismay.

Ohh, and do not take my diplomacy comment too literally ;-)

And lastly: an apology to Major Juggler for clogging/polluting your tread with this quibble; you're doing a great job.

Grats to the e-wing winning the local....er regional tournament. Good thing someone figured out how to beat that howlrunner 4 ship list. That thing has been an absolute terror in the meta. Especially with that deadly predator + fcs combo on the phantom. We should give chile 3 more regionals to more accurately delve into the diverse meta there.

/facepalm

/end sarcasm

Must be nice to so easily win hundreds of dollars worth of prize support.

I won the regional in Chile. For your knowledge, run a regional of any game in Chile has a basic cost over $350 dollars, due to shipping and custom expenses. Probably in some part of your brain, maybe you can get that is a really expensive event for 12 players.

Next year you are more then welcome to come here with your absolutley unique and wise knowledge to "teach" us how to play X wing in the correct way.

We have fun playing the game, I dont need to copy any squad from forums to have fun doing my hobby, and certainly we dont need your "wise" sarcarsm about our tournament.

Asi que ahorrate tus comentarios imbéciles!

Pd: Thank you MajorJuggler for the support!

Grats to the e-wing winning the local....er regional tournament. Good thing someone figured out how to beat that howlrunner 4 ship list. That thing has been an absolute terror in the meta. Especially with that deadly predator + fcs combo on the phantom. We should give chile 3 more regionals to more accurately delve into the diverse meta there.

/facepalm

/end sarcasm

Must be nice to so easily win hundreds of dollars worth of prize support.

I won the regional in Chile. For your knowledge, run a regional of any game in Chile has a basic cost over $350 dollars, due to shipping and custom expenses. Probably in some part of your brain, maybe you can get that is a really expensive event for 12 players.

Next year you are more then welcome to come here with your absolutley unique and wise knowledge to "teach" us how to play X wing in the correct way.

We have fun playing the game, I dont need to copy any squad from forums to have fun doing my hobby, and certainly we dont need your "wise" sarcarsm about our tournament.

Asi que ahorrate tus comentarios imbéciles!

Pd: Thank you MajorJuggler for the support!

I think some of us definitely don't consider what it might be like to run a regional in another country (starting with the cost), so thank you letting us know.

Congrats on your win!

FWIW, it's cool to see an E-Wing team win the Regionals. Perhaps the E-Wing will gain some popularity or ultimately prove to be a viable potential counter to the Phantom.

I think variety is what makes this game great. Would be awfully boring if the TIE Phantom always wins.

Can't we all just get along? I'm glad a game that is less than 2 years old has a global appeal at the competitive level. I expect my regional, this Saturday, to be one of if not the largest in the us. I for one am stoked about that. Does that mean my chances of walking out with valuable prizes is diminished. Sure. But I'm excited to see a roomful of winging. I'm sure the chile players had mixed emotions. Great, less players. Higher probability to win. But I'd like for this event and this game to be huge.

Look all the bickering aside, the point was don't anyone get it in their heads that 3 small ship rebel or e-wing squads or w/e are going to be running gangbusters cause they won 12 person tournaments. Great for the person that one, but understand that it's kind of a stretch to really call it a "regional" in terms of how it represents the meta. Again, I did finish top 8 at a regional bigger than both of these events combined, and my other two friends since high school that I constantly play with and went along to the tourney finished top 4 and champion respectively, and had to beat a top 16 2013 world's player to do it. I/we have some understanding to back this up. I'm sorry if I hurt Chile's feelings.