If you are trying to ram your opinion down someone else's throat as superior you are infringing on their freedom. I said nothing about unconstitutional which would make it a government vs. the people issue. People insisting on imposing artificial % breakdowns on society are not about freedom, they are about imposing their perspective on others which is tyranny.

That is incredibly eyeroll-worthy. Yes let's really consider having different viewpoints, over an internet forum, "ramming opinions down someone's throat as superior" in a way that is going to have a practical effect on their freedom.

So I guess now you'd call it tyrannical to have an opinion-driven discussion over game rule or fluff interpretations where I try to convince you that I'm right and you're wrong? That happens with much greater frequency on the board than talking about the movies, but I've never seen anyone get up in arms saying "your opinion on the applicability of the Outdoorsman Talent is tyrannical because it's different from mine and you're trying to convince me otherwise!" But that's the logical extension of "claiming your opinion is superior to theirs is infringing on their freedom."

It's pretty sad if you think it's tyrannical for people to share their opinions and try to convince others. Some might call that a spirited debate which is pretty antithetical to tyrannical imposition of belief. And I think it's too bad that some people in this thread chose not to engage in the actual conversation and just resorted to nonsensical political rants and name-calling (in this case I'm not referring to you, 2P51). But I think that sort of thing adds nothing worthwhile to the discussion at all.

So petitions, protests, and debates are all forms of tyranny because "they are about imposing their perspective on others"? How do you think we've made social progress over the years? How do you think black people became treated as humans rather than property (or 3/5 humans), in the US? How do you think women gained the right to vote?

If a petition/request to the producers of Star Wars to hire a set of actors that more accurately represents its demographics is considered tyranny, I can't imagine what those other examples must be.

I think it would be really fun if these new movies had absolutely nothing to do with any EU stories that took place post RotJ. Everybody would be thrown a curve ball and there would be less chance of people complaining about how they screwed things up.

Seriously, I would love for all of this to be completely new.

I think it would be really fun if these new movies had absolutely nothing to do with any EU stories that took place post RotJ. Everybody would be thrown a curve ball and there would be less chance of people complaining about how they screwed things up.

Seriously, I would love for all of this to be completely new.

That could certainly be interesting. I'm not sold on either approach (throwing it all out or adhering to it 100%). But as long as the stories are good, engaging and have a true sense of Star Wars I'll likely enjoy the movies.

I think it would be really fun if these new movies had absolutely nothing to do with any EU stories that took place post RotJ. Everybody would be thrown a curve ball and there would be less chance of people complaining about how they screwed things up.

Seriously, I would love for all of this to be completely new.

I think that's the idea.

The official news release from Lucasfilm does come out and say:

In order to give maximum creative freedom to the filmmakers and also preserve an element of surprise and discovery for the audience, Star Wars Episodes VII-IX will not tell the same story told in the post- Return of the Jedi Expanded Universe. While the universe that readers knew is changing, it is not being discarded. Creators of new Star Wars entertainment have full access to the rich content of the Expanded Universe.

Pretty transparent statement there. Story is gonna be an all new one. Which is good for everyone in the long run.

If you are trying to ram your opinion down someone else's throat as superior you are infringing on their freedom. I said nothing about unconstitutional which would make it a government vs. the people issue. People insisting on imposing artificial % breakdowns on society are not about freedom, they are about imposing their perspective on others which is tyranny.

That is incredibly eyeroll-worthy. Yes let's really consider having different viewpoints, over an internet forum, "ramming opinions down someone's throat as superior" in a way that is going to have a practical effect on their freedom.

So I guess now you'd call it tyrannical to have an opinion-driven discussion over game rule or fluff interpretations where I try to convince you that I'm right and you're wrong? That happens with much greater frequency on the board than talking about the movies, but I've never seen anyone get up in arms saying "your opinion on the applicability of the Outdoorsman Talent is tyrannical because it's different from mine and you're trying to convince me otherwise!" But that's the logical extension of "claiming your opinion is superior to theirs is infringing on their freedom."

It's pretty sad if you think it's tyrannical for people to share their opinions and try to convince others. Some might call that a spirited debate which is pretty antithetical to tyrannical imposition of belief. And I think it's too bad that some people in this thread chose not to engage in the actual conversation and just resorted to nonsensical political rants and name-calling (in this case I'm not referring to you, 2P51). But I think that sort of thing adds nothing worthwhile to the discussion at all.

Just as I think the lack of an artifical 50/50 breakdown in gender representation in a room full of soldiers being viewed in a negative way is eye roll worthy when there are quantifiable facts and figures to show the genders do not make free willed independent decisions that would support that % break down.

Remember that Disney said they wanted to make a new Star Wars movie every year, which would include stand-alone/spin-off films in between the Sequel Trilogy releases. I know a lot of people were disappointed at the lack of Billy Dee Williams, but he could very well show up in Episode VIII/IX or one of the in-between movies. I could speculate all day on what the stand-alone films could be. A Young Han and Chewie or Lando movie. Some kind of animated feature. A bounty hunter film. A heist or other crime movie. Hell, you could even do a comedy or musical in the right hands; it couldn't be worse than the Holiday special.

So petitions, protests, and debates are all forms of tyranny because "they are about imposing their perspective on others"? How do you think we've made social progress over the years? How do you think black people became treated as humans rather than property (or 3/5 humans), in the US? How do you think women gained the right to vote?

If a petition/request to the producers of Star Wars to hire a set of actors that more accurately represents its demographics is considered tyranny, I can't imagine what those other examples must be.

We aren't talking about social progress though, we are talking about %s of people represented in a photo and I point out a 50/50 breakdown is not an accurate representation of the choices women are allowed to freely make and they have chosen not to for decades.

My point is subtle and clearly lost on you, freedom and equality aren't %s and numbers, they are equal access, if people choose not to avail themselves of that opportunity, that's called freedom. If you force %s onto the scene to make the math look correct, that's tyranny. Equality and freedom are not synonyms.

I'm confident Mr. B. D. Williams will appear beginning in one of the sequels (probably VIII). Seeing our heroes return in this trilogy is a big draw, and they need to spread some of that out. Plus, I have no problem believing Lando would have hung up the Rebellion once the war was won, and went back to making money and having a good time.

As regards the spinoffs, I dearly hope they avoid 'prequel-itis', and give us only stories happening in the here and now. The 'Young Han and Chewie Adventures' don't interest me at all. Harrison Ford is Han Solo, and that's it. Ditto Boba Fett (and everybody else) - he's just a mask. Save that stuff for the novels.

I'm confident Mr. B. D. Williams will appear beginning in one of the sequels (probably VIII). Seeing our heroes return in this trilogy is a big draw, and they need to spread some of that out. Plus, I have no problem believing Lando would have hung up the Rebellion once the war was won, and went back to making money and having a good time.

As regards the spinoffs, I dearly hope they avoid 'prequel-itis', and give us only stories happening in the here and now. The 'Young Han and Chewie Adventures' don't interest me at all. Harrison Ford is Han Solo, and that's it. Ditto Boba Fett (and everybody else) - he's just a mask. Save that stuff for the novels.

As much as I'd love a good Mandalorian spin off I agree. Though I'm fine with a Old Republic spin off, something that doesn't involve any of the main characters from the other movies. For the Spin offs I'd love the SW universe to get explored in more depth.

So petitions, protests, and debates are all forms of tyranny because "they are about imposing their perspective on others"? How do you think we've made social progress over the years? How do you think black people became treated as humans rather than property (or 3/5 humans), in the US? How do you think women gained the right to vote?

If a petition/request to the producers of Star Wars to hire a set of actors that more accurately represents its demographics is considered tyranny, I can't imagine what those other examples must be.

We aren't talking about social progress though, we are talking about %s of people represented in a photo and I point out a 50/50 breakdown is not an accurate representation of the choices women are allowed to freely make and they have chosen not to for decades.

My point is subtle and clearly lost on you, freedom and equality aren't %s and numbers, they are equal access, if people choose not to avail themselves of that opportunity, that's called freedom. If you force %s onto the scene to make the math look correct, that's tyranny. Equality and freedom are not synonyms.

And if you think one's choices can be broken down to their levels of testosterone and estrogen like freaking midichlorians, then your point isn't subtle, it's just wrong. Did you ever think that women haven't chosen to make these decisions because of centuries of oppression? Women haven't even held the right to vote in the US for a full century yet. Our Representatives do not represent the gender balance of our nation, not even close. And these are the people who make legislature. Men making laws that concern women (abortion, military service, sexual violence). And you don't think that has an effect on their choices in life? That's not even getting into religion, education, or a dozen other things.

Star Wars is a clean slate. Sexism and racism aren't necessarily a part of its history, especially its human history. Nobody brings up Lando's race. Nobody makes Leia's gender an issue. Even when Han is teasing her, it's more about her social class than her gender. There's no reason to say "Women in the Star Wars galaxy wouldn't be pilots or soldiers because estrogen" because so what ? People are shooting lasers and jumping 15 feet in the air and flying ships through hyperspace, but aggressive women and compassionate men are just too absurd to comprehend? I can barely understand anyone believing that it's an impossibility in real life, let alone in a fictional fantasy universe.

Like I say, I think it is about verisimilitude rather than realisticness.

Imagery like

puts one, or at least me, in mind of things like

So watching the scene in the film evokes stuff like

That is a lot of storytelling ground to make up if you choose to forego it.

So petitions, protests, and debates are all forms of tyranny because "they are about imposing their perspective on others"? How do you think we've made social progress over the years? How do you think black people became treated as humans rather than property (or 3/5 humans), in the US? How do you think women gained the right to vote?

If a petition/request to the producers of Star Wars to hire a set of actors that more accurately represents its demographics is considered tyranny, I can't imagine what those other examples must be.

We aren't talking about social progress though, we are talking about %s of people represented in a photo and I point out a 50/50 breakdown is not an accurate representation of the choices women are allowed to freely make and they have chosen not to for decades.

My point is subtle and clearly lost on you, freedom and equality aren't %s and numbers, they are equal access, if people choose not to avail themselves of that opportunity, that's called freedom. If you force %s onto the scene to make the math look correct, that's tyranny. Equality and freedom are not synonyms.

And if you think one's choices can be broken down to their levels of testosterone and estrogen like freaking midichlorians, then your point isn't subtle, it's just wrong. Did you ever think that women haven't chosen to make these decisions because of centuries of oppression? Women haven't even held the right to vote in the US for a full century yet. Our Representatives do not represent the gender balance of our nation, not even close. And these are the people who make legislature. Men making laws that concern women (abortion, military service, sexual violence). And you don't think that has an effect on their choices in life? That's not even getting into religion, education, or a dozen other things.

Star Wars is a clean slate. Sexism and racism aren't necessarily a part of its history, especially its human history. Nobody brings up Lando's race. Nobody makes Leia's gender an issue. Even when Han is teasing her, it's more about her social class than her gender. There's no reason to say "Women in the Star Wars galaxy wouldn't be pilots or soldiers because estrogen" because so what ? People are shooting lasers and jumping 15 feet in the air and flying ships through hyperspace, but aggressive women and compassionate men are just too absurd to comprehend? I can barely understand anyone believing that it's an impossibility in real life, let alone in a fictional fantasy universe.

Ahh, we get to it, I'm wrong, see you just proved my point, I'm wrong and you get to label me but you're all about freedom. I think you just proved my point quite eloquently actually.

I don't know what anyone thinks, women or otherwise, and I don't try to tell them how to think or label them as wrong when I don't agree with them. I think that point is lost on you as well.

Neither of those scenes from the film directly represent a historical event. You have Guerrilla warfare and trench combat. Adding women in camo or hunkering down in a trench doesn't break anything.

Think of a story like The Seven Samurai. It's about seven male, Japanese samurai. The Magnificent Seven tells the same general story with seven male cowboys, gunslingers, etc. Not Japanese, not samurai, but the story stands on its own. A Bug's Life did the same thing with a bunch of animated bugs. It still references The Seven Samurai, it still tells the same overall tale, even though it's completely different in many ways.

One could just as easily take the story of Band of Brothers and adapt it to a futuristic, sci-fi setting with a different cast that shares similar personality traits. Fellowship and camaraderie and courage under fire are not male traits. I've already mentioned this game series twice I think, but Mass Effect does this perfectly. The movie Aliens echoed the Vietnam War, but the presence of women like Ripley, Ferro the dropship pilot, or Vasquez the heavy didn't somehow make that analogy irrelevant.

Like I say, I think it is about verisimilitude rather than realisticness.

Imagery like

puts one, or at least me, in mind of things like

So watching the scene in the film evokes stuff like

That is a lot of storytelling ground to make up if you choose to forego it.

I don't know these images evoke similar ideas and concepts and are just as real.

So petitions, protests, and debates are all forms of tyranny because "they are about imposing their perspective on others"? How do you think we've made social progress over the years? How do you think black people became treated as humans rather than property (or 3/5 humans), in the US? How do you think women gained the right to vote?

If a petition/request to the producers of Star Wars to hire a set of actors that more accurately represents its demographics is considered tyranny, I can't imagine what those other examples must be.

We aren't talking about social progress though, we are talking about %s of people represented in a photo and I point out a 50/50 breakdown is not an accurate representation of the choices women are allowed to freely make and they have chosen not to for decades.

My point is subtle and clearly lost on you, freedom and equality aren't %s and numbers, they are equal access, if people choose not to avail themselves of that opportunity, that's called freedom. If you force %s onto the scene to make the math look correct, that's tyranny. Equality and freedom are not synonyms.

And if you think one's choices can be broken down to their levels of testosterone and estrogen like freaking midichlorians, then your point isn't subtle, it's just wrong. Did you ever think that women haven't chosen to make these decisions because of centuries of oppression? Women haven't even held the right to vote in the US for a full century yet. Our Representatives do not represent the gender balance of our nation, not even close. And these are the people who make legislature. Men making laws that concern women (abortion, military service, sexual violence). And you don't think that has an effect on their choices in life? That's not even getting into religion, education, or a dozen other things.

Star Wars is a clean slate. Sexism and racism aren't necessarily a part of its history, especially its human history. Nobody brings up Lando's race. Nobody makes Leia's gender an issue. Even when Han is teasing her, it's more about her social class than her gender. There's no reason to say "Women in the Star Wars galaxy wouldn't be pilots or soldiers because estrogen" because so what ? People are shooting lasers and jumping 15 feet in the air and flying ships through hyperspace, but aggressive women and compassionate men are just too absurd to comprehend? I can barely understand anyone believing that it's an impossibility in real life, let alone in a fictional fantasy universe.

Ahh, we get to it, I'm wrong, see you just proved my point, I'm wrong and you get to label me but you're all about freedom. I think you just proved my point quite eloquently actually.

I don't know what anyone thinks, women or otherwise, and I don't try to tell them how to think or label them as wrong when I don't agree with them. I think that point is lost on you as well.

If you're going to ignore decades or centuries of science, psychology, and philosophy by breaking down human choice into hormones and base urges, I don't know what else to call you. Antiquated?

I don't know these images evoke similar ideas and concepts and are just as real.

I doubt it is an insurmountable problem. I just think you might need to work at it, because people don't have a lifetime of watching stuff like

to draw on.

deleted

I don't know these images evoke similar ideas and concepts and are just as real.

I doubt it is an insurmountable problem. I just think you might need to work at it, because people don't have a lifetime of watching stuff like

to draw on.

But we're also talking about Star Wars, where there are laser swords and spacey mind-magic people. I mean I think most people can accept that it is not the same universe. In fact many people going to Star Wars have already drawn on these:

I really want to jump into this sexism argument, but reading it may have made me a little dumber.

Well, I expect your modern Star Wars to look at least as cool as this photo:-

If you can get in lots of lady soldiers without compromising that, knock yourselves out.

****, but that is one badass photo.

So I don't want to get into the sexism debate here more than I did a few pages ago, but I want to point something out: comparing the Rebel Alliance to 40s American military isn't just wrong because Star Wars is in space and all, but it's a congregation of desperate freedom fighters who are fighting for their rights, against oppression, and for their very lives.

Why wouldn't there be women there, looking every bit as serious as the guys? This is an important question.

Well, I expect your modern Star Wars to look at least as cool as this photo:

--snip--

If you can get in lots of lady soldiers without compromising that, knock yourselves out.

****, but that is one badass photo.

That came across as a challenge. I'm not saying it was intentional, but it sounds like there's an implicit "I doubt you can do it, but..." before "if you can..." there.

Again, not saying you're doing it on purpose, but that's how I read it.

That came across as a challenge. I'm not saying it was intentional, but it sounds like there's an implicit "I doubt you can do it, but..." before "if you can..." there.

Again, not saying you're doing it on purpose, but that's how I read it.

I do doubt you can do it. It is a challenge. Go win it.

Awesome! Only 41 posts and I already found somebody to put onto my ignore list! Congrats Sylpheed, I found out that you're a sexist ass! Everybody give him a hand, I won't be able to tell how he receives it.