It boggles my mind that there are people on these forums who are opposed to a roughly 50:50 gender balance in the films.
I think there are people opposed to the idea that we need a calculator to determine whether or not gender balance, racial balance, etc. has been achieved.
It boggles my mind that there are people on these forums who are opposed to a roughly 50:50 gender balance in the films.
I think there are people opposed to the idea that we need a calculator to determine whether or not gender balance, racial balance, etc. has been achieved.
Thank you for wording that a lot better than I would have.
Bottom line I do agree, there is a lot of room for more female actors and from more diverse background. That being said I dont think gender or color should dictate who is in the movie.
Qui-Gon Jin and Mace Windu could have easily been females, and it wouldn't have changed the plot at all. Same for, say, Chewbacca or Boba Fett. And honestly, there's no reason Darth Vader couldn't have originally been Luke's mother.
[spit-take] CHEWY'S NOT A GIRL ?!
I have some fiction I need to rewrite...
Darth Mader.
Sounding a bit like Lilly in the How I Met Your Mother - Last Sigaret Ever episode.
Darth Mader.
Sounding a bit like Lilly in the How I Met Your Mother - Last Sigaret Ever episode.
Haha, just imagine how different the franchise would be if Vader were voiced by Harvey Fierstein instead of James Earl Jones.
It boggles my mind that there are people on these forums who are opposed to a roughly 50:50 gender balance in the films.
I think there are people opposed to the idea that we need a calculator to determine whether or not gender balance, racial balance, etc. has been achieved.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/geena-davis-two-easy-steps-664573
"The basics are that for every one female-speaking character in family-rated films (G, PG and PG-13), there are roughly three male characters; that crowd and group scenes in these films — live-action and animated — contain only 17 percent female characters; and that the ratio of male-female characters has been exactly the same since 1946. Throw in the hypersexualization of many of the female characters that are there, even in G-rated movies, and their lack of occupations and aspirations and you get the picture."
I think Geena Davis sums up some of my thoughts pretty well. Look at Star Wars, and you'll see that the only main female characters are Leia and Padme. Both of them are tied into romance storylines, both are sexualized at some point (Leia's slave bikini and arguably Padme's midriff-baring outfit in Episode II), though both are also leaders and independently kick-ass. As for side characters, Zam Wessell, Mon Mothma, ...Aunt Beru. Is that it? The only way to find more interesting female characters is to dip into the other media like video games, books, or cartoons.
Is it crazy to say that a gathering crowd should be about half female? Where are all of the female scum and villainy in the cantinas? Would it break any Star Wars lore if half the rebel pilots were women? You don't need a calculator to see that 17% isn't close to 50%, or to see that Leia and Padme are even more vastly outnumbered in the films. This is 2014. There's no shortage of female actors who would love to be part of the Star Wars franchise, and who are capable of playing anything from a Rodian slicer to a Corellian ace pilot to an Imperial Moff.
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Also taken from Davis' article, this can apply to GMs just as much as it can to screenwriters:
Step 1: Go through the projects you're already working on and change a bunch of the characters' first names to women's names. With one stroke you've created some colorful unstereotypical female characters that might turn out to be even more interesting now that they've had a gender switch. What if the plumber or pilot or construction foreman is a woman? What if the taxi driver or the scheming politician is a woman? What if both police officers that arrive on the scene are women — and it's not a big deal?
Step 2: When describing a crowd scene, write in the script, "A crowd gathers, which is half female." That may seem weird, but I promise you, somehow or other on the set that day the crowd will turn out to be 17 percent female otherwise. Maybe first ADs think women don't gather, I don't know.
And there you have it. You have just quickly and easily boosted the female presence in your project without changing a line of dialogue.
Edited by HothChocolateDarth Mader.
Sounding a bit like Lilly in the How I Met Your Mother - Last Sigaret Ever episode.
If we're sticking with the German, it'd actually be Darth Mudder. Which conjures the image of Darth Vader on an ATV on a dirt track after a fresh rain and I can't get this grin off of my face.
And speaking of diversity, but on a lighter note, does anyone have theories on non-human characters in the new films? Do you think all of the announced actors will be playing humans? Is it possible that Domnhall Gleeson or Max von Sydow will voice a droid, or play an alien species? I think it's a reasonable assumption that Andy Serkis will be playing an alien, given his resume.
Actually, one of the few strong opinions I have on the actual casting is that, unlike most, I would live to see Serkis get a live role and not be a CGI character. The guy deserves some real face time on the big screen.
And speaking of diversity, but on a lighter note, does anyone have theories on non-human characters in the new films? Do you think all of the announced actors will be playing humans? Is it possible that Domnhall Gleeson or Max von Sydow will voice a droid, or play an alien species? I think it's a reasonable assumption that Andy Serkis will be playing an alien, given his resume.
Personally I really want Bothans, just one **** on screen Bothan please! I'd love Von Sydow to be voicing a Chiss. I think that would work well. Serkis playing some form of Alien is also very likely, though it'd be kind of cool if he isn't.
Actually, one of the few strong opinions I have on the actual casting is that, unlike most, I would live to see Serkis get a live role and not be a CGI character. The guy deserves some real face time on the big screen.
Is it wrong of me to think that he looks kind of weird, so he could play an alien if they just touched him up with a little makeup? 
It's sorta hard to say since we've gotten no clues about what the plot could be, which would maybe provide clues as to what aliens would be appearing.
Abrams being Abrams I wouldn't be too shocked if the movies were built around the Yuuzahn Vong though.
He's got a great face and demeanor to play the "Igor-esque" right-hand lackey of the major villain maybe?
It's sorta hard to say since we've gotten no clues about what the plot could be, which would maybe provide clues as to what aliens would be appearing.
Abrams being Abrams I wouldn't be too shocked if the movies were built around the Yuuzahn Vong though.
Abrams being Abrams, he'll tease a "mystery" of some sort that gets guessed but he'll keep going "Nono, it's a Mystery!" and the marketing will build some mystery in as well and we'll go see the movie and there'll be a scene where somebody reveals the "mystery" in a really dramatic fashion but it'll fall totally flat because we all already know.
I'd be okay with the Yuuzahn Vong, though. They're pretty neat.
Would it break any Star Wars lore if half the rebel pilots were women?
You kinda start to lose versimilitude between
and
By having a lot of serious faced men standing around listening to someone talk you are evoking some powerful imagery people will already be familiar with. You might be able to do the same with half serious faced women listening to someone talk, but not necessarily.
By having a lot of serious faced men standing around listening to someone talk you are evoking some powerful imagery people will already be familiar with. You might be able to do the same with half serious faced women listening to someone talk, but not necessarily.
I'd be okay with departing from that powerful imagery. It's from a different time, a more sexist and racist time, where men were men and women did what they were told for their own good.
I doubt anybody would notice or care if half of the group were women. And those that would? I don't care what they'd think.
I'd be okay with the Yuuzahn Vong, though. They're pretty neat.
I've never really understood all the hate for that part of the EU, personally. I liked that it kind of took the series to a darker place with the deaths of long-running characters, turning personalities on their heads with the fallout and setting up a hero to fall and pursue the power of the Dark Side "for the greater good" as he saw it. To each their own I guess?
I've never really understood all the hate for that part of the EU, personally. I liked that it kind of took the series to a darker place with the deaths of long-running characters, turning personalities on their heads with the fallout and setting up a hero to fall and pursue the power of the Dark Side "for the greater good" as he saw it. To each their own I guess?
I'm not really a fan of the stories themselves. I saw the darkening of the universe as "dark and grim for the sake of being dark and grim because that's more mature", and it felt weird since a lot of these characters had suffered through a lot in the past without coming out the other end willing to compromise their ideals.
I just think the Vong are kinda neat.
I'd be okay with departing from that powerful imagery. It's from a different time, a more sexist and racist time, where men were men and women did what they were told for their own good.
I don't agree. Why is it hard to believe that the vast majority of those willing to go to war and fight are/have been/will be men? Why is it weird that it is perfectly natural for the females (you know, the ones who incubate the next generation) to be more valued?
Men have not fought all the wars throughout history "because sexism". They did/do it "because expendable".
By having a lot of serious faced men standing around listening to someone talk you are evoking some powerful imagery people will already be familiar with. You might be able to do the same with half serious faced women listening to someone talk, but not necessarily.
Despite not looking like photos from the Second World War, what would having females in that scene change?
I'd take this woman just as seriously as any of the guys in the photos you linked.
It's from a different time, a more sexist and racist time
I dunno. Anyone with a TV is still seeing pictures like
from conflict zones around the world.
Despite not looking like photos from the Second World War, what would having females in that scene change?
Potentially nothing. Like I say, it might work fine.
Darth Mader.
Sounding a bit like Lilly in the How I Met Your Mother - Last Sigaret Ever episode.
Haha, just imagine how different the franchise would be if Vader were voiced by Harvey Fierstein instead of James Earl Jones.
It boggles my mind that there are people on these forums who are opposed to a roughly 50:50 gender balance in the films.
I think there are people opposed to the idea that we need a calculator to determine whether or not gender balance, racial balance, etc. has been achieved.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/geena-davis-two-easy-steps-664573
"The basics are that for every one female-speaking character in family-rated films (G, PG and PG-13), there are roughly three male characters; that crowd and group scenes in these films — live-action and animated — contain only 17 percent female characters; and that the ratio of male-female characters has been exactly the same since 1946. Throw in the hypersexualization of many of the female characters that are there, even in G-rated movies, and their lack of occupations and aspirations and you get the picture."
I think Geena Davis sums up some of my thoughts pretty well. Look at Star Wars, and you'll see that the only main female characters are Leia and Padme. Both of them are tied into romance storylines, both are sexualized at some point (Leia's slave bikini and arguably Padme's midriff-baring outfit in Episode II), though both are also leaders and independently kick-ass. As for side characters, Zam Wessell, Mon Mothma, ...Aunt Beru. Is that it? The only way to find more interesting female characters is to dip into the other media like video games, books, or cartoons.
Is it crazy to say that a gathering crowd should be about half female? Where are all of the female scum and villainy in the cantinas? Would it break any Star Wars lore if half the rebel pilots were women? You don't need a calculator to see that 17% isn't close to 50%, or to see that Leia and Padme are even more vastly outnumbered in the films. This is 2014. There's no shortage of female actors who would love to be part of the Star Wars franchise, and who are capable of playing anything from a Rodian slicer to a Corellian ace pilot to an Imperial Moff.
-----
Also taken from Davis' article, this can apply to GMs just as much as it can to screenwriters:
Step 1: Go through the projects you're already working on and change a bunch of the characters' first names to women's names. With one stroke you've created some colorful unstereotypical female characters that might turn out to be even more interesting now that they've had a gender switch. What if the plumber or pilot or construction foreman is a woman? What if the taxi driver or the scheming politician is a woman? What if both police officers that arrive on the scene are women — and it's not a big deal?
Step 2: When describing a crowd scene, write in the script, "A crowd gathers, which is half female." That may seem weird, but I promise you, somehow or other on the set that day the crowd will turn out to be 17 percent female otherwise. Maybe first ADs think women don't gather, I don't know.
And there you have it. You have just quickly and easily boosted the female presence in your project without changing a line of dialogue.
Women and men do not choose to engage in the same forms of behavior in equal numbers. A 50/50 split would be completely artificially imposed. The US military has been an all volunteer force for decades and recruiters have nothing but trouble meeting female quotas. Women have been able to choose to be in the military for decades and yet only about 15% do choose to serve. Recruiters seek them out intentionally. Allowances are made. The benefits for serving are great, and they simply choose not to.
Look at crime, the majority of crime is committed by men. The overwhelming majority of violent crime is committed by men. Men and Women approach the world and life from different perspectives and choose different paths. There is no male dominated workplace boss that is preventing women from killing and robbing to their heart's content, they simply choose not to.
A 50/50 split would be a politically correct contrived artificial looking scene.
Edited by 2P51Star Wars is fantasy, not history. Look at Game of Thrones. Males and females play assassins, knights, royalty, peasants, prostitutes, savages, pirates/sailors. Admittedly, warfare is still male-centric, but that's because the series is also partially-rooted in history (War of the Roses, feudalism in general).
Mass Effect has a sci-fi setting with a heavy military/combat emphasis. Half of the party characters are female, the main character can be male or female, and NPCs are a mix of male and female. Alien species have more disproportionate gender balance, but in the cases of the Asari or the Krogan, it makes sense within the story.
And then of course there's KotOR and TOR, both of which have males and females playing Jedi/Sith and soldiers and smugglers and spies, and they still feel very much like Star Wars.
By having a lot of serious faced men standing around listening to someone talk you are evoking some powerful imagery people will already be familiar with. You might be able to do the same with half serious faced women listening to someone talk, but not necessarily.
Despite not looking like photos from the Second World War, what would having females in that scene change?
I'd take this woman just as seriously as any of the guys in the photos you linked.
Just sayin...
Edited by Ghostofman