So I've always liked running these guys (Wedge, Luke & Biggs), but they never quite cut it competitively (at least for me). Now with all the new shiny headed our way, I am thinking maybe they could stand a chance in the tourney scene. Here's a few possibilities I've been mulling over, but not sure what would be best at this point...

Option 1

Wedge w/ R5-P9 & Predator

Luke w/ R2-D2 & engine upgrade

Biggs w/ R5 & hull upgrade

This version makes Draw their Fire on luke redundant. I like having engine upgrade on Luke for closing (when the other 2 inevitably bite it).

Option 2

Wedge w/ R5-D8 & Predator

Luke w/ R5-P9 & Draw their Fire

Biggs w/ R2-D2 & Shield Up.

As tanky as I could make 'em. R5-P9 is a really good fit for Luke, and thanks to Predator, Wedge doesn't lose too much offense when he spends his action to hopefully ditch a damage card...

Option 3

Wedge w/ R5-D8 & Predator

Luke w/ R5-P9 & Predator

Biggs w/ R7 & Shield Up.

This is the one I'm the least certain of, but its different. R7 gives Biggs better defense against one shot than a focus token can (TL on the enemy with who can deal the most hurt in any given round), so that should help durability. Luke gets a pseudo TL+F every round, giving the list slightly more offensive punch than the others.

Thoughts? Anyone have better/alternative ideas?

What EPT would you choose for Biggs if you'd put R2-D6 on him?

IMO, 'Wasting' your astro slot for an EPT doesn't seem like a good idea yet, since so far, there are no good EPTs that provide as much increased protection as the astromechs do. For example, Elusiveness can't compete with R2-F2's benefit, or look at determination vs an R5: the R5 is cheaper (since you have to count R2-D6's cost) for similar benefit. Hopefully we'll get some better defensive EPTs, although nothing spoiled yet for wave 4 seems helpful for biggs...

Sure, there are astromechs that function as well as an ept, but I'm also thinking about, say, Expert Handling to put Biggs into arc if some fancy flying allowed the enemy to ignore him. Or to get rid of a TL. VI and EU allow him to move later and boost to, again, get in range or slip to range 3 for the enemy.

He might not live as long, on the other hand, he just became a bigger threat.

He can take Wingman to relieve stress or Decoy to whatever it is that Decoy does but it sounds Biggsey.

Well for me, I am really hesitant to spend points to give him greater utility when ultimately his purpose in your squadron is to 'take it for the team'. Yeah it would be nice to get him to live longer by dodging arcs/avoiding fire, but then its very likely those shots will instead go into your more valuable ships (the ones Biggs is there to protect). Even wingman I would be hesitant to use because you might only get to use it once or twice a match, but in theory, it would be nice to have with a PtL Wedge...but can you justify those 3 points just for shedding 1 or 2 stress when they could've been used to get Biggs something like R2-F2/R5-P9 or hull upgrade/stealth device?

Decoy I have no idea. I really do hope it could be useful for Biggs though!

I wouldn't use EH or EU to get him out of trouble, I'd use them to put him into the line of fire if the enemy kept him out of arc.

R2-D6, VI and EU put him at 2 points less than say R2-D2 and SU but do give him greater utility than just a big old bullseye. .

R5-P9, I feel, is better used in conjunction with Kyle and/or Garven where you'll be bound to have a bunch of focus tokens.

R5-P9, I feel, is better used in conjunction with Kyle and/or Garven where you'll be bound to have a bunch of focus tokens.

Yeah, agreed! Typing too fast

So IMO, WLB and other 3 elite builds have fallen short because they just don't make up enough fire power to be worth dropping that 4th ship. After all, they all shoot the same number of dice... Or at least up until and including W3 that was the case.

I would think you would want to go for things that maximize the killing power, outmaneuver seems nice at first since it gets rid of a defensive die, but you're going to be flying them as a group so Biggs can protect them, so you'll likely not be able to use it in the beginning of the game. Predator makes the damage more reliable, allowing you to reroll one, but for 3 points, I'd rather PTL for a TL+F and reroll all of them, so it doesn't actually increase the damage.

Thus far, I think the only thing that helps that build out is opportunist. Rolling that 4th die (or 5th at R1) actually increases the killing power of the squad. But realistically, that can really only go on Luke (or if you want to put VI on Luke, you could put it on Wedge, but that seems kinda pointless to me).

I think the best thing for the 3 elites might actually be to start looking at other elites.

Wedge, Janson, and Luke/Porkins/Ibby/Ten as the 3rd might be the way to go. Yes, you lose the meatshield known as Biggs, but stick with me for a second... Lets put Ibby in as the 3rd ship.

If your opponent goes for Wedge first, you can still rip off the tokens via Janson, which is both a defensive and offensive buff btw, so Janson and Ibby will end up living longer. Then, if he goes after Janson, Ibby is a beast in endgame. If he goes after Ibby, Janson basically denies the opponent tokens to close the game, so he should be hard to solo kill.

If your opponent goes for Janson first, then Wedge is still around to keep putting the pain out, along with Ibby. This might be the best move for your opponent to make, assuming Wedge+Ibby both have opportunist (though I'm not sure that's the best thing for them - will discuss later) since at least one of them can't use it. Then if he goes for Ibby, Wedge should be able to kill anything remaining by himself... and if he goes for Ibby, you have a brilliant closer.

Finally, if he goes for Ibby first, you have the two best X wing aces shooting him down at all times...

There's no kill order that now gives the opponent an advantage... You've now made all 3 ships deadly in their own right, and therefore you really don't need Biggs. Furthermore, you gain the advantage of no longer needing to fly in formation since each can act independently, as long as they focus fire.

So how would one equip them?

There's 14 points remaining to spend on upgrades. Ibby needs some sort of stressful thing, let's start with Opportunist. If we put opp on Wedge, we would want VI on Wes, but I'm not sure that's the best thing to do... Let's go ahead and give Wedge R7-T1. This way he can make use of his PS9 to arc dodge with boost when he's in the thick of things, and it acts as a pseudo PTL and EU, which combined would cost 7 points. Wes doesn't particularly need his actions to hit and be productive, so lets put EH on him so he can be slippery, and then R2D2 so he can regen a shield after he barrel rolls. With 1 point remaining, lets put AR on Wedge, so he can K turn behind his target, boost back into R1 w/ a TL.

Wes w/ R2D2 + EH

Wedge w/ R7-T1 + AR

Ibby w/ Opportunist

I'm still not sure that this would be deadly enough to outweigh having a 4th ship, but you're more deadly than WLB, and each ship is more defensive as well (Ibby with her reroll, Wes with EH + R2D2, Wedge with his pseudo boost, and they all benefit from Wes' ability). Worth a shot.

So IMO, WLB and other 3 elite builds have fallen short because they just don't make up enough fire power to be worth dropping that 4th ship. After all, they all shoot the same number of dice... Or at least up until and including W3 that was the case.

I would think you would want to go for things that maximize the killing power, outmaneuver seems nice at first since it gets rid of a defensive die, but you're going to be flying them as a group so Biggs can protect them, so you'll likely not be able to use it in the beginning of the game. Predator makes the damage more reliable, allowing you to reroll one, but for 3 points, I'd rather PTL for a TL+F and reroll all of them, so it doesn't actually increase the damage.

Thus far, I think the only thing that helps that build out is opportunist. Rolling that 4th die (or 5th at R1) actually increases the killing power of the squad. But realistically, that can really only go on Luke (or if you want to put VI on Luke, you could put it on Wedge, but that seems kinda pointless to me).

I think the best thing for the 3 elites might actually be to start looking at other elites.

Wedge, Janson, and Luke/Porkins/Ibby/Ten as the 3rd might be the way to go. Yes, you lose the meatshield known as Biggs, but stick with me for a second... Lets put Ibby in as the 3rd ship.

If your opponent goes for Wedge first, you can still rip off the tokens via Janson, which is both a defensive and offensive buff btw, so Janson and Ibby will end up living longer. Then, if he goes after Janson, Ibby is a beast in endgame. If he goes after Ibby, Janson basically denies the opponent tokens to close the game, so he should be hard to solo kill.

If your opponent goes for Janson first, then Wedge is still around to keep putting the pain out, along with Ibby. This might be the best move for your opponent to make, assuming Wedge+Ibby both have opportunist (though I'm not sure that's the best thing for them - will discuss later) since at least one of them can't use it. Then if he goes for Ibby, Wedge should be able to kill anything remaining by himself... and if he goes for Ibby, you have a brilliant closer.

Finally, if he goes for Ibby first, you have the two best X wing aces shooting him down at all times...

There's no kill order that now gives the opponent an advantage... You've now made all 3 ships deadly in their own right, and therefore you really don't need Biggs. Furthermore, you gain the advantage of no longer needing to fly in formation since each can act independently, as long as they focus fire.

So how would one equip them?

There's 14 points remaining to spend on upgrades. Ibby needs some sort of stressful thing, let's start with Opportunist. If we put opp on Wedge, we would want VI on Wes, but I'm not sure that's the best thing to do... Let's go ahead and give Wedge R7-T1. This way he can make use of his PS9 to arc dodge with boost when he's in the thick of things, and it acts as a pseudo PTL and EU, which combined would cost 7 points. Wes doesn't particularly need his actions to hit and be productive, so lets put EH on him so he can be slippery, and then R2D2 so he can regen a shield after he barrel rolls. With 1 point remaining, lets put AR on Wedge, so he can K turn behind his target, boost back into R1 w/ a TL.

Wes w/ R2D2 + EH

Wedge w/ R7-T1 + AR

Ibby w/ Opportunist

I'm still not sure that this would be deadly enough to outweigh having a 4th ship, but you're more deadly than WLB, and each ship is more defensive as well (Ibby with her reroll, Wes with EH + R2D2, Wedge with his pseudo boost, and they all benefit from Wes' ability). Worth a shot.

Well thought out arguments and explanations. Thank you. I tend to agree that the 3x ship build just isn't as reliable as a 4x ship build. Named pilots with really cool abilities are nice. It's just hard to give up the ability to shoot at different targets and multiple defensive targets. I still like flying 3x ship builds, just don't seem to win as often.

I like playing around with 3-(small)ship builds for the unique pilot abilities and interesting synergies as well but it also frustrates me that no matter how good they look on paper they just don't seem to cut it against simple 4-ship builds. It may have firepower but defensively they're as good as any other rookie ship, with the exception of Luke and Ibi, but even they can't dodge forever. I make one wrong move and it usually costs me the game. For every match I win I will lose 2-3 other matches, unlike the reliability of the 4-ship Rebel build, which usually has a more consistent dps and a healthy hp pool to stay competitive.

That being said I don't think I'll stop experimenting with 3-ships but if I wanna win I'll go for 4-ships. Hopefully the E-wing and Rebel Aces will reinvigorate the 3-ship Rebel build and make them more competitive. I'm looking at you Corran and Keyan! Don't disappoint me:)

Wes w/ R2D2 + EH

Wedge w/ R7-T1 + AR

Ibby w/ Opportunist

I'm still not sure that this would be deadly enough to outweigh having a 4th ship, but you're more deadly than WLB, and each ship is more defensive as well (Ibby with her reroll, Wes with EH + R2D2, Wedge with his pseudo boost, and they all benefit from Wes' ability). Worth a shot.

While I like the idea of this list, I wouldn't say that the increase in firepower compared to WLB is significantly greater. Its basically Ibby's circumstantial bonus +1 red die from opportunist.

My feeling with 3 ship builds is that you have to accept that you won't have as much firepower as a 4 ship list. What you do have is better piloting skill and special pilot abilities to take advantage of (I know you realize this, Khyros, but just sayin' anyways). I mean, 3 ships with 3 attack each can take out at least one TIE fighter per turn (even more likely when one of those is Wedge), so the firepower is decent.

My feeling is, 3 ship builds fall down because their firepower gets reduced so fast when you lose that first ship. So I have been thinking how to get increased survival that allows all three ships to last as long as possible. With the new astromechs we're seeing, I think this is finally possible for WLB, because there's a good defensive 'mech for each ship now. I see Predator synching well with R5-P9 and even R5-D8 (previously not used due to the cost of using up your action) because you're still very likely to get 2-3 hits per attack even when you can't afford to spend your action offensively.

For example:

Wedge w/ R5-D8 & Predator

Luke w/ R5-P9 & Draw their Fire

Biggs w/ R2-D2 & Shield Upgrade

Each ship has a way to regenerate shields (hull in the case of Wedge) and still dishes out decent punishment. I'm hoping it will not be possible for the enemy to wipe Biggs out in the first round of shooting, and after the initial pass, it will get even tougher on the opponent because focus firing becomes that much harder...

I think the problem with WBL may be the fact that it's a bit too defensively oriented with not a lot of synergy happening.

Wedge

Opportunist

R7

Wes

Veteran Instincts

R7-T1

Luke

R5-P9

For 99 points.

You'll be shooting before anyone else but Vader, especially if you spend the last point on another VI for Luke.

Wes strips the offensive stuff, which gives Wedge the opportunity. Luke keeps buffing his shields, he's really focused on that.

I think the problem with WBL may be the fact that it's a bit too defensively oriented with not a lot of synergy happening.

Wedge

Opportunist

R7

Wes

Veteran Instincts

R7-T1

Luke

R5-P9

For 99 points.

You'll be shooting before anyone else but Vader, especially if you spend the last point on another VI for Luke.

Wes strips the offensive stuff, which gives Wedge the opportunity. Luke keeps buffing his shields, he's really focused on that.

I see what you did there

But I don't see how too much defense can be a bad thing. I mean, 3 attack ships that are hard to kill, especially with the new tourney format, might work out well.

As to your list, I think you got your R7's mixed up. Wouldn't Wedge benefit more from R7-T1?

As to your list, I think you got your R7's mixed up. Wouldn't Wedge benefit more from R7-T1?

I though about that, but I think it's more likely that Wedge is face to face with an attacker, and less in need of a target lock for rerolls, whereas Wes can make good use of the boost and target lock in 1 action in order to hit at maximum damage, or to gain a lock on one enemy while setting up to strip another.