Given a high enough PS (or Jendon) to ensure you have a target lock at range 3, what would people think of a Homing Missile/Advance Proton Torpedoes combo? You can fire off the homing missile at range 3, which still leaves you target locked. Next turn, you can get into range 1 and focus, pretty much ensuring the maximum 5 hits before any evades.

The main drawback I can see is that both attacks would be at the same target if you're using the same target lock, and that's a lot of overkill for most targets. It should cause a whole world of hurt against a tank such as a YT-1300 though!

On paper it sounds nice, but the fact that you give 11 pts of ordnance on a ship that cost 22pts takes a third of your squadron. Advanced Torpedoes will make this ship a high priority target and with 2 agility and no shield, things can go wrong quickly. There is good a good risk that you'll lose your ship first round, maybe second, and good odds that you won,t be able to shoot your torpedo. Being a PS6 ship, the elite pilot like Wedge go before you can shoot your torpedoes and you just went into range 1 to be able to shoot it, that's 4 dice vs 1 for you. And all that is considering that you've been able to keep your target in line. Since you tagged it last round with your homing missile TL, he has better chance to evade your tactic entirely.

So, it sounds nice, but in a game against a fair opponent, this ship is too much of a threat and juicy to be left alone. I'm not a big fan of multiple ordnance, unless you have more than one bomber.

Given a high enough PS (or Jendon) to ensure you have a target lock at range 3, what would people think of a Homing Missile/Advance Proton Torpedoes combo? You can fire off the homing missile at range 3, which still leaves you target locked. Next turn, you can get into range 1 and focus, pretty much ensuring the maximum 5 hits before any evades.

The main drawback I can see is that both attacks would be at the same target if you're using the same target lock, and that's a lot of overkill for most targets. It should cause a whole world of hurt against a tank such as a YT-1300 though!

On paper it sounds nice, but the fact that you give 11 pts of ordnance on a ship that cost 22pts takes a third of your squadron. Advanced Torpedoes will make this ship a high priority target and with 2 agility and no shield, things can go wrong quickly. There is good a good risk that you'll lose your ship first round, maybe second, and good odds that you won,t be able to shoot your torpedo. Being a PS6 ship, the elite pilot like Wedge go before you can shoot your torpedoes and you just went into range 1 to be able to shoot it, that's 4 dice vs 1 for you. And all that is considering that you've been able to keep your target in line. Since you tagged it last round with your homing missile TL, he has better chance to evade your tactic entirely.

So, it sounds nice, but in a game against a fair opponent, this ship is too much of a threat and juicy to be left alone. I'm not a big fan of multiple ordnance, unless you have more than one bomber.

Howlrunner

Scimitar + APT

Academy Pilot x 5

As you stated, a bomber with ordnance like the APT will surely get targetted and taken out in the first or second round of shooting. This squad plays on this by putting the Bomber up in the front line with the APT, almost forcing your opponent to HAVE to shoot it, taking the heat from Howlrunner and the less survivable Academy Pilots. Those bombers are quite durable, and can't be 1 shotted. If they don't shoot the APT bomber, they now have to deal with that threat the whole game, maneuvering the TLd ship into unfavorable positions or mess up and take 5 damage. 5 Ties with Howlrunner is the real threat, after all. And in my experience, the Bomber doesn't usually die until the second round of shooting, which is backed with some math.

I suppose the moral of the story is, knowing which ship your opponent will prioritize is not all that bad, and can be used in your favor. It was good enough to get me to the 2nd place, out of 70 or so people. With these other bomber swarms, maybe there some clever tricks to play odd the same concept.

Of course, but the difference is that a scimitar with APT cost 22pts. Captain Jonus with Homing missiles and APT cost 33pts. That's not the same thing. In your squadron exemple, depending on range and all, my priority target would be Howlrunner in the first round of attack. A one shot 5 dice attack in range 1 that needs 2 rounds of preparation on a PS2 ship is not a very big threat, you can maneuver around that. I still prefer to kill the leader that affects every attack.

ok, i am warming up to Jonus a lil more. what about something like this...

SQUAD #1 (100pts)

Captain Jonus + Seismic Charges + Draw Their Fire (25)

Howlrunner + Determination + Hull Upgrade (22)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Assault Missiles + Cluster Missiles + Seismic Charges (29)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Capt. Jonus is ur sacrificial lamb who draws crits away from ur other ships, esp howlrunner.

After your ordinance is away, if hes is still alive he can stay as wingman and body guard for Howlrunner who sits at the back of the formation.

Would like to find room for a finisher like Bakstabber, but that would mean running Howlrunner naked with no additional protection.

something like...

SQUAD #2 (100pts)

Captain Jonus + Seismic Charges + Draw Their Fire (25)

Howlrunner + Determination (19)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Assault Missiles + Cluster Missiles + Seismic Charges (29)

Backstabber (15)

Academy Pilot (12)

one more variant...

SQUAD#3 (100pts)

Captain Jonus + Seismic Charges + Draw Their Fire (25)

Howlrunner + Determination + Hull Upgrade (22)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Assault Missiles + Cluster Missiles + Seismic Charges (29)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Cluster Missiles + Seismic Charges (24)

thoughts?

I like the third one better. Similar to Jonus+Howlrunner+3xScimitar but with a higher PS bid to help place the TL on who you want. I don't think Jonus is worth it if there is only one ship firing secondary weapons, that's why I'm not in favor of the first two.

I actually like the idea of Draw their fire on Jonus, it might help survive the first strike. Just hope for not getting the critical that remove your pilot ability.

I like the third one better. Similar to Jonus+Howlrunner+3xScimitar but with a higher PS bid to help place the TL on who you want. I don't think Jonus is worth it if there is only one ship firing secondary weapons, that's why I'm not in favor of the first two.

I actually like the idea of Draw their fire on Jonus, it might help survive the first strike. Just hope for not getting the critical that remove your pilot ability.

Captain Jonus + Seismic Charges + Draw Their Fire (25)

Howlrunner + Determination + Hull Upgrade (22)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Assault Missiles + Cluster Missiles + Seismic Charges (29)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Cluster Missiles + Seismic Charges (24)

if i drop 2 of the seismics i hav room for another cluster missile on that last bomber but i like the threat of running multiple seismics (3) as u can pull off some nasty traps by dropping 2-3 of them close together and then K-turning back to blast them to pieces

im not sure this squad is stronger than running 5x gammas all with seismic charges (100pts) but it is more versatile and u should have a strong endgame if u can keep howlrunner on the table past turn 3-4.

Just a thought here, I don't know if it would be any good.

How about dropping the Cluster on the first Gamma Pilot to upgrade the second one into Assault missiles. With the 3 pts left, you can upgrade Jonus Seismic Charges into Proton ones. A crowd control/formation disturber Squadron:

Captain Jonus+Proton Charges+Draw Their Fire

Howlrunner+Determination+Hull Upgrade

Gamma Squadron Pilot+Assault Missiles+Seismic Charges

Gamma Squadron Pilot+Assault Missiles+Seismic Charges

Not too sure about the effectiveness, but at least it would make your opponent think twice. A variant would be to remove DtF from Jonus to replace Determination for Swarm Tactics. I love to shoot early!

Just a thought here, I don't know if it would be any good.

How about dropping the Cluster on the first Gamma Pilot to upgrade the second one into Assault missiles. With the 3 pts left, you can upgrade Jonus Seismic Charges into Proton ones. A crowd control/formation disturber Squadron:

Captain Jonus+Proton Charges+Draw Their Fire

Howlrunner+Determination+Hull Upgrade

Gamma Squadron Pilot+Assault Missiles+Seismic Charges

Gamma Squadron Pilot+Assault Missiles+Seismic Charges

Not too sure about the effectiveness, but at least it would make your opponent think twice. A variant would be to remove DtF from Jonus to replace Determination for Swarm Tactics. I love to shoot early!

not bad. this looks like a swarm killer squad. if u have lots of tie-swarms in your meta id run this. it should be decent versus other squads too but i think esp good versus imperials.

Only thing to say, bombers with Ion pulse missiles are going to be nasty.

I should add that I placed in top 8 in the Houston Regionals with:

5x Gamma Squad Pilot + Seismic Charges

It's a really tough list.

4 Scimitars and a Bounty Hunter with either Weapons Engineer or Recon Specialist was my main squad for a few months. It never lost against a rebel squad, but it's low damage and high durability makes it a really long fight.

i quite like this squad:

Bounty Hunter + Gunner + Seismic Charges (40)

Gamma Squadron + Seismic Charges (20)

Gamma Squadron + Seismic Charges (20)

Gamma Squadron + Seismic Charges (20)

thoughts?

I've had fun with Jonus brings a Lamb:

Jonus w Homing Missiles

2x Gamma with Cluster and Assault

Black Squadron w Draw their Fire and Shield upgrade

I continue to have success with this list after a few more games. (I do like the idea of the 5x with seismics and will be giving that a go at some point.) A few thoughts as to why I think it’s been working:

1) Alpha Strike: Between 14 dice at range 2-3 or 18 dice at range 1-2 (with Jonus rerolls). Follow-up between 12-16 (with rerolls), that’s before consideration of splash damage. There are probably alpha strikes that are better, but the “follow up” is pretty devastating as well.

2) Assault Missiles: A pair of assault missiles affects opponents’ flying. (Not unlike what Sable mentioned about the seismics, though I think people worry about the missiles less). I don’t think one would do this as well, but a pair is more threatening.

3) Effective Ordnance: In games I’ve played with this, I’ve been able to discharge at least 4 of my 5 pieces of ordnance. I think that’s the limit of where it is cost effective. The combination of long range and short range helps this, but the Black Squadron is a key to the list as well.

4) Black Squadron: He looks like an expensive distraction and damage soak, but he’s been a pain in his own right. Besides preventing a possible crit that would prevent a bomber from using/releasing its payload, he’s often ignored and left to concentrate on attack. While not devestating, he’s been key to peeling off an extra HP here and there to take ships down faster.

Weaknesses: It’s not an incredibly maneuverable list and if the payload is spent and it hasn’t taken down a couple of ships, it’s going to be trouble and a long fight. The rerolls eliminate some of that, but it can still happen, obviously. I’ve faced Wes and he’s definite annoyance to this list, but he becomes target #1.

I don’t remember exactly where I got the idea for this list, but someone here posted something similar, though it didn’t have the Black Sq (and not with DTF). I know that Vorpal is running it with an Alpha instead, and I’ll be interested to see how it does, essentially trading the assurance I have in getting ordnance off with a ship that will put out a more consistent firepower (while still likely being ignored).

Either way, the appeal and design for the list for me was an attempt at a direct counter to the plethora of rebel B-Wing and Falcon builds I’ve seen.

i quite like this squad:

Bounty Hunter + Gunner + Seismic Charges (40)

Gamma Squadron + Seismic Charges (20)

Gamma Squadron + Seismic Charges (20)

Gamma Squadron + Seismic Charges (20)

thoughts?

Interesting trade off. I think it depends on how much you like the BH, because 2 Gammas over it give you an extra bomb, two more "hit points" and comparable firepower in some ways. That doesn't account for the value of shields over hull, gunner's impact, and even just the psychological effect of the BH. Other drawbacks are that it is a single, big target that contains all 40 points.

hmm wonder what would do more damage 5x seismic charges or 2x assault missiles?

hmm wonder what would do more damage 5x seismic charges or 2x assault missiles?

Seismic Charges. Not necessarily directly from the missiles, but how they force your opponent to fly, which gives you more and better shots against them.

hmm wonder what would do more damage 5x seismic charges or 2x assault missiles?

Seismic Charges. Not necessarily directly from the missiles, but how they force your opponent to fly, which gives you more and better shots against them.

I could definitely see that being the case, though I see similar things with assault missiles. I haven't run the 5 by 5 list but I plan to and I could imagine it being more intimidating. I like the initial odds swing my list gives me from the early going right now.

i quite like this squad:

Bounty Hunter + Gunner + Seismic Charges (40)

Gamma Squadron + Seismic Charges (20)

Gamma Squadron + Seismic Charges (20)

Gamma Squadron + Seismic Charges (20)

Thoughts?

I finally gave this list a try. I found it quite effective. 4 Bombs is still scary. The difference between the 5 x Gamma squad is your option to formation fly and and scare enemies with 5 bombs if they k turn is reduced to 3 bombs, likely 2 when they take out the first Gamma. The tradeoff is you get really reliable 3 dice gun, which can be invaluable in some circumstances. It really upsets me when 4/5 2 dice Ties roll 1 hit and 1 blank when they all have a focus. Just grinds my gears. Also, it's almost the same total hull, and attack damage effectiveness as well. It is just the total bomb payload and ease of formation bomb dropping that is missing, which may make or break the list. You also paint a big target on the Firespray, which is both good AND bad.

My next mission is creating a Bomber list with Flechette Torpedoes. Could do...5 x Gamma + Flechette. Or could do Jonus and 4 Bombers, all with Flechette torps. Some cool options that might be okay. Ill have even more fun with those ion pulse missiles. Does anyone know how many copies of Flechette torps comes in the Rebel Transport? I haven't bought mine yet.

i quite like this squad:

Bounty Hunter + Gunner + Seismic Charges (40)

Gamma Squadron + Seismic Charges (20)

Gamma Squadron + Seismic Charges (20)

Gamma Squadron + Seismic Charges (20)

Thoughts?

I finally gave this list a try. I found it quite effective. 4 Bombs is still scary. The difference between the 5 x Gamma squad is your option to formation fly and and scare enemies with 5 bombs if they k turn is reduced to 3 bombs, likely 2 when they take out the first Gamma. The tradeoff is you get really reliable 3 dice gun, which can be invaluable in some circumstances. It really upsets me when 4/5 2 dice Ties roll 1 hit and 1 blank when they all have a focus. Just grinds my gears. Also, it's almost the same total hull, and attack damage effectiveness as well. It is just the total bomb payload and ease of formation bomb dropping that is missing, which may make or break the list. You also paint a big target on the Firespray, which is both good AND bad.

My next mission is creating a Bomber list with Flechette Torpedoes. Could do...5 x Gamma + Flechette. Or could do Jonus and 4 Bombers, all with Flechette torps. Some cool options that might be okay. Ill have even more fun with those ion pulse missiles. Does anyone know how many copies of Flechette torps comes in the Rebel Transport? I haven't bought mine yet.

Phildo - u get 2 flachette torps in transport expansion.

theyr cheap, im just not sure theyr worth using wout Jonus - limiting their appeal for me and the lists i like to play.

gr8 feedback on ur play with BH/3xgamma. i agree the target will be painted on ur firespray early, perhaps limiting ur options with it but i think u could get really good at flying it if u put in enough time. my head says 5 ships with 2 attack dice are better than 3 bombers+ firespray. ive flown kath with a two bomber escort and found it pretty solid but kath has way more options with her elite pilot talent slot (i tend to go with expert handling).

im doing some testing this sunday so ill post here and let u know how i get on and what bomber squads i go with.

i quite like this squad:

Bounty Hunter + Gunner + Seismic Charges (40)

Gamma Squadron + Seismic Charges (20)

Gamma Squadron + Seismic Charges (20)

Gamma Squadron + Seismic Charges (20)

thoughts?

Interesting trade off. I think it depends on how much you like the BH, because 2 Gammas over it give you an extra bomb, two more "hit points" and comparable firepower in some ways. That doesn't account for the value of shields over hull, gunner's impact, and even just the psychological effect of the BH. Other drawbacks are that it is a single, big target that contains all 40 points.

I've played this list about 10 times over the last 4 weeks or so since Bomber first posted it. It's currently undefeated against a mix of lists and players both on vassal and on tabletop.

The threat of 4 charges is similar to the effect 5 have on opponents not knowing what to do at the point of the first pass. In most games I split the BH from the 3 bombers. Since most opponents I've played have had at least 1 ps 3 or lower ship most of the time I deploy the bombers straight away and bring the BH in on a flank being careful to make sure they arrive at the same time. Between the rear arc and gunner having the BH has been really nice when dealing with higher agility ships. I think it's a deceptively strong list.

Sounds exactly like how I flew it. I only got 1 match in though, against a 4 B Wing squad, it was pretty 1 sided, though I've played against a lot of 4 B Wing lists, so experience likely helped.

D4rkt3mpl4r, we should try this list out against our tournament lists on Vassal sometime, try to give it a proper thrashing and see if it prevails.

Sounds exactly like how I flew it. I only got 1 match in though, against a 4 B Wing squad, it was pretty 1 sided, though I've played against a lot of 4 B Wing lists, so experience likely helped.

D4rkt3mpl4r, we should try this list out against our tournament lists on Vassal sometime, try to give it a proper thrashing and see if it prevails.

Sounds like a great idea. I might have a cup match tonight but should be around this weekend during the evenings. Tie swarm, int build, dual falcons, etc.

Here's 2 I've been thinking about:

Omicron - Adv Sens, Ion Cannon, ST-321, Engine Upgrd

Jonus - Swarm Tactics, Flechette Torps

BH - HLC

The idea is to get Lambda in front, BH next and Jonus in back. Then jam it in so no one moves for a round or 2. Ion can keep enemies going 1 (which keeps them jammed), HLC for obvious reasons, and Jonus in the back is w/in range of of both larges to make sure they hit. Haven't played it yet. May not need ST-321 or Swarm Tactics....which could let me upgrade to Jendon who could advance a TL and pass it back to Jonus.

Next:

2x Omicron - Adv Sensor, Engine Upgrd, Int Agent

2x Scimitar - Proximity Mine

That leaves me 4pts to play with. Could upgrade to gammas for that. Anyway, the name of the game is again, jam up opponents. Then, when they finally get free, use Int Agent to see which way they're going to know when to use the Proximities. Again, haven't had a chance to test, so they're both still just rough ideas.

Bomber Swarm (100pts)

Howlrunner + Push the Limit + Shield Upgrade

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges

Black Squadron Pilot + Draw Their Fire

BSP is howlrunners bodyguard. 4 pilots with PS4. PTL lets howlrunner take focus + evade every turn and BSP takes any crits for her.

what do you think?

Bomber Swarm (100pts)

Howlrunner + Push the Limit + Shield Upgrade

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges

Black Squadron Pilot + Draw Their Fire

BSP is howlrunners bodyguard. 4 pilots with PS4. PTL lets howlrunner take focus + evade every turn and BSP takes any crits for her.

what do you think?

I like the inclusion of the Black Squadron in a lot of lists, and am excited for when wingman is also an option. Anyway, I think it works well here as a bodyguard to Howlrunner, where you might have otherwise been served better by simply taking another Gamma with a seismic. The difference in your black squadron and mine is that I give the extra shield to him because he will be taking the crits and it keeps him effective for longer. On the other hand, I don't run Howlrunner, so I could see keeping the shield there.

My final thought is that there is probably a threshold in the number of seismic bombs that will alter an opponent's flying to the degree they become effective. Three may still do that, but maybe not to the extent of four or five, and that seems to be the key part of the Gamma+Seismic (x5) list. On the other hand, your primary attacks will be much improved and that might make seismics more effective.