It's only 5 points of uncancelled damage if you only hit one ship per bomb.Remember: they hit EVERY ship at Range 1 when they detonate.Im gonna give this squad a run today:
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20).....
both squads have high durability and the option to drop multiple charges
I've been thinking about running this one as well. It seems super strong passing on initiative to squads like bloody daggers or other PS4 lists. The prospect of 5 points of uncancelled damage is bonkers.
Potentially, it's 65 points of guaranteed damage (assuming every bomb hits every ship upon detonation, including your own, against an 8 tie swarm. Without hitting your own, we're looking at 40 points of damage as the maximum).
And THAT'S bonkers!
I'm a pessimist, I assume the worst and if it doesn't seem bad it means it's probably pretty awesome.
Hence the best case scenarios you listed above. That stuff doesn't happen for me. I take this list against a Tie Swarm, I'm getting barely 5 points of uncancelled damage, missing Howlrunner completely, and only over killing a single Academy Pilot.
I agree with you, the potential for multiple 5 points of guaranteed damage is bonkers.
Rise of the bombers
I played a match today with
jonus - determination
scim - assault missiles
scim - assault missiles
lambda_jendon - st-321, ion cannon, weapons engineer
against wedge, 2 rookies, and a y-wing
I advanced very slowly, passing target locks to the 2 bombers. With weaps eng, the lambda could make a 0 maneuver on round 2 and still pass the other target lock. Then jendon can fly directly into the shuttle, conveniently moving the formation at a snail's pace.
Once the opponent was at range, my bombers had target locks and focus. A re-rolled die has over a 93% chance to hit if you have focus. Wedge took 4 (rolled badly) from assault missiles, then died when the y-wing next to him took the other assault missiles. The y-wing limped away at 1 hull. From there it was just a mop up. I flew the shuttle straight and let the bombers k-turn, while passing target locks from the shuttle.
After that, the shuttle was fairly useless. I think I may swap the weaps eng for vader. Or even dropping the ion and weaps eng for vader and gunner (also dropping determination and 1 assault missiles to concussion). I do love a good doom-shuttle
I've been having a fairly good run with:
Captain Jonus - TIE Bomber
+ Squad Leader
Scimitar Squadron Pilot - TIE Bomber
+ Assault Missiles
+ Cluster Missiles
Scimitar Squadron Pilot - TIE Bomber
+ Assault Missiles
+ Cluster Missiles
Royal Guard Pilot - TIE Interceptor
+ Push The Limit
= 99pts
A pair of Assault Missiles to break up formations and keep swarms honest and a pair of Cluster Missiles to punish B-Wings and Falcons with Jonus to make them hit hard and the RGP Interceptor to swing wide and punch in for easy kills from the rear.
When I don't screw it up it works VERY well.
I'm thinking of giving the following a try:
Jendon + Weapon Engineer, ST-321 & Fire Control System
Jonus + Concussion Missiles
Scimitar + Concussion Missiles
Scimitar + Concussion Missiles
Any thoughts? I was considering shoehorning Gunner or HLC on the Shuttle, but figured an extra bomber might be better...
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)
2 wins with this squad versus Han Shoots 1st. both games i only got to use 3 seismic charges but it was enough. the high hull value of these bombers really helps, letting u chip away for consistent damage throughout the game. Taget Lock, even on a 2 atk dice ship is really good - at least as good as having howlrunner in the mix imo as u get to reroll both dice if u need to
I am tweeking some early game tactics and setup options.
B B B
B B
moving forwrd in this formation gives u the option to drop multiple charges from ur front line ships and your back line ships. if the front line K-Turns, u also can follow up with some firepower to finish off what ur seismics just damaged
another sneaky ploy is to block with a back row bomber (its moves forward into the enemies path) and drop charges with ur front line. dont be afraid to blow up ur own guys - they have the hull to take it. if u r aggressive and get in max damage early, you will likely take down their weaker ships early and gain a numerical advantage.
this squad really hurts low PS ships like rookie pilots. which are prone to flying blindly into ur charges.
Edited by The_Brown_BomberConsider the prox mine, you should. Imagine flying 5 bombers in a line and having each of them drop a mine, or plugging the holes between asteroids with mines. If the enemy turns after the pass, drop the mines right in front of them, then gloat and say, you cannot escape your destiny, it is unavoidable. I encourage you to at least try them out a couple of times. I much prefer them to seismic charges, especially when fighting rebels. In a mirror match, I like the seismics better.
Another option I'm thinking of for epic play is proton bombs. I don't care how reinforced your shields are, your corvette is having some lumps!
Here is a different thought,
1- Jonus semic charge
2- Bombers cluster missiles, 2x Flect, Sem charge
1- shuttle with ion
Edited by CubanboyHere is a different thought,
1- Jonus
3- Bombers missiles, torp
1- shuttle with ion or HLC
In less than 2 hours I will try the following:
Colonel Jendon: Adv.Sensors/ST321 title (target lock anything before making red moves and later pass that TL on)
Captain Jonus: Homing missiles (rerolls for everyone! HM because these 'work' best of all ordnance with 'only' TL)
Scimitar : Assault missiles ( regardless what he brings; he will not be keen on grouping his lot together.)
Scimitar; Concussion missiles (ideally with a focus and Jendon-TL he should get 4 hits. I hope)
Here is a different thought,
1- Jonus
3- Bombers missiles, torp
1- shuttle with ion or HLC
In less than 2 hours I will try the following:
Colonel Jendon: Adv.Sensors/ST321 title (target lock anything before making red moves and later pass that TL on)
Captain Jonus: Homing missiles (rerolls for everyone! HM because these 'work' best of all ordnance with 'only' TL)
Scimitar : Assault missiles ( regardless what he brings; he will not be keen on grouping his lot together.)
Scimitar; Concussion missiles (ideally with a focus and Jendon-TL he should get 4 hits. I hope)
I like the shuttle with ion more then anything else is because you can plan our someone's next move and make the bombs more effective.
Consider the prox mine, you should. Imagine flying 5 bombers in a line and having each of them drop a mine, or plugging the holes between asteroids with mines. If the enemy turns after the pass, drop the mines right in front of them, then gloat and say, you cannot escape your destiny, it is unavoidable. I encourage you to at least try them out a couple of times. I much prefer them to seismic charges, especially when fighting rebels. In a mirror match, I like the seismics better.
After a few zero hits proximity mines they tend to leave a bad taste. You go though all the trouble to line up a drop, an opponent flys over the mine and you get two Eyes and a Blank. Then you think of all the things those three points could have bought and you look at the other 2-4 proximity mines on our other ships and imagine the ships being shot down before they can even be dropped. I think the meta is geared towards more ships over more upgrades. Five bombers and Howlrunner is a pretty tough squad and you don't really even need to keep the formation, especially after Howlrunner explodes.
Proton Bombs, wow I really want these to work but the cost of five points in conjunction with the number of critical effects that aren't all that bad make it very hard for me to exchange a 14 point generic Tie with Veteran Instincts for two or three Proton Bombs.
I like the shuttle with ion more then anything else is because you can plan our someone's next move and make the bombs more effective.
I'd love ion on the shuttle.
But alas, no clue where to get the points....
Here is a different thought,
1- Jonus
3- Bombers missiles, torp
1- shuttle with ion or HLC
In less than 2 hours I will try the following:
Colonel Jendon: Adv.Sensors/ST321 title (target lock anything before making red moves and later pass that TL on)
Captain Jonus: Homing missiles (rerolls for everyone! HM because these 'work' best of all ordnance with 'only' TL)
Scimitar : Assault missiles (regardless what he brings; he will not be keen on grouping his lot together.)
Scimitar; Concussion missiles (ideally with a focus and Jendon-TL he should get 4 hits. I hope)
I REALLY like the idea of running Jendon with ST321 alongside Jonus and some Scimitars,
But I don't feel like that is enough ordinance to actually shoot and take advantage of all the upgrading you are investing in giving them.
This assumption seems correct.
Compare everything to PS4 for my personal comfort and ease:
You invest 5 points in Jendon + 3 for the ST321 title (8 combined) and another 6 in Jonus -> 14 points spent.
Of course not all points are 'ordnance enhancers', some is for the extra PS which is nice in itself. Still...
Then you pay 13 or 14 points for the ordnance itself meaning that for the actual missile strike you deprive yourselves of a named interceptor or two tie fighters or...
Yesterday my list above worked like a charm until AFTER I delivered the missiles. then you are left with clunky, unwieldy tie fighters with more hp but less defence dice.
I guess another thing to factor in is if the game is casual or timed.
From reading these forums, my understanding is that for timed games the edge goes to the side that can lay down the damage quickly, gaining points for if time runs out. I would expect this situation to favour ordnance, and therefore work more in the Bomber's favour.
That said, I still haven't had a game yet. Such theorising may not survive first contact with the enemy...
I guess another thing to factor in is if the game is casual or timed.
From reading these forums, my understanding is that for timed games the edge goes to the side that can lay down the damage quickly, gaining points for if time runs out. I would expect this situation to favour ordnance, and therefore work more in the Bomber's favour.
That said, I still haven't had a game yet. Such theorising may not survive first contact with the enemy...
neko - u r correct - in times games the bombers shine - they hit hard early and then are difficult to take out due their 6 hull.
if u r smart you can spread the damage and 'hide' your damaged ships at long range and outside enemy firing arcs and further prolong their life
initially i though holding only some seismic charges would be the best course of action - no after a few games with bombers carrying seismic charges i am not so sure - it seems to be a good idea to drop them at the first available opportunity - get in the early damage and them adapt your middle game tactics according to how things play out n the first few exchanges.
I guess another thing to factor in is if the game is casual or timed.
From reading these forums, my understanding is that for timed games the edge goes to the side that can lay down the damage quickly, gaining points for if time runs out. I would expect this situation to favour ordnance, and therefore work more in the Bomber's favour.
That said, I still haven't had a game yet. Such theorising may not survive first contact with the enemy...
neko - u r correct - in times games the bombers shine - they hit hard early and then are difficult to take out due their 6 hull.
if u r smart you can spread the damage and 'hide' your damaged ships at long range and outside enemy firing arcs and further prolong their life
initially i though holding only some seismic charges would be the best course of action - no after a few games with bombers carrying seismic charges i am not so sure - it seems to be a good idea to drop them at the first available opportunity - get in the early damage and them adapt your middle game tactics according to how things play out n the first few exchanges.
Excellent!
If my LGS gets my order in stock in time, this one list I'm seriously considering for Imdaar:
Lambda - Omicron Pilot
Ion Cannon, Advanced Sensors, Engine Upgrade
31pts
TIE Bomber - Captain Jonus
Assault Missiles, Seismic Charges
29pts
TIE Bomber - Scimitar Pilot
Cluster Missiles
20pts
TIE Bomber - Scimitar Pilot
Cluster Missiles
20pts
The basic plan will be for Jonus to lock and unload at range 3, hopefully doing significant damage if I'm up against a formation. The Scimitars can lock up ready to unleash hell the next turn, each with a total of 6 attack dice and potentially 4 rerolls thanks to Jonus. The shuttle is a basic dogfighting layout, with the ion cannon added as a cheap upgrade that can both add firepower at range 3 and disrupt/delay any formations with an ion token. For added lulz, the ion cannon also benefits from Jonus, increasing its reliability. Jonus also has a seismic charge as a deterent to getting behind him (and the shuttle).
I'm hoping that such a formation can deal serious enough damage on a first pass primary weapons will be enough for cleanup thereafter.
Another idea with 4 variations, Bombers with fighter escort:
Version 1:
Gamma Bomber+homing Missiles+Seismic Charge
Gamma Bomber+homing Missiles+Seismic Charge
Obsidian Pilot
Obsidian Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Version 2:
Gamma Bomber+homing Missiles
Gamma Bomber+homing Missiles
Howlrunner
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Version 3:
Gamma Bomber+Concussion Missiles
Gamma Bomber+Concussion Missiles
Howlrunner+Swarm Tactics
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Version 1:
Gamma Bomber+homing Missiles+Seismic Charge
Gamma Bomber+homing Missiles+Seismic Charge
Obsidian Pilot
Obsidian Pilot
Saber Squadron+Push the Limit
Hmmm I have tried adding just 1 Gamma with 2 x Homing missile with to a swarm with SOME success.
I think ill try 2 x Gammas each with 1 Homing. Nice idea!
Given a high enough PS (or Jendon) to ensure you have a target lock at range 3, what would people think of a Homing Missile/Advance Proton Torpedoes combo? You can fire off the homing missile at range 3, which still leaves you target locked. Next turn, you can get into range 1 and focus, pretty much ensuring the maximum 5 hits before any evades.
The main drawback I can see is that both attacks would be at the same target if you're using the same target lock, and that's a lot of overkill for most targets. It should cause a whole world of hurt against a tank such as a YT-1300 though!
Another idea with 4 variations, Bombers with fighter escort:
Version 1:
Gamma Bomber+homing Missiles+Seismic Charge
Gamma Bomber+homing Missiles+Seismic Charge
Obsidian Pilot
Obsidian Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Version 2:
Gamma Bomber+homing Missiles
Gamma Bomber+homing Missiles
Howlrunner
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Version 3:
Gamma Bomber+Concussion Missiles
Gamma Bomber+Concussion Missiles
Howlrunner+Swarm Tactics
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Version 1:
Gamma Bomber+homing Missiles+Seismic Charge
Gamma Bomber+homing Missiles+Seismic Charge
Obsidian Pilot
Obsidian Pilot
Saber Squadron+Push the Limit
i like Squad#2
Gamma Bomber+homing Missiles
Gamma Bomber+homing Missiles
Howlrunner
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
id even make a slight tweek to it and go with this...
Gamma Bomber+homing Missiles+Seismic Charges
Gamma Bomber+Seismic Charges
Howlrunner+ Determination
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
or even
Gamma Bomber+Seismic Charges
Gamma Bomber+Seismic Charges
Howlrunner+ Stealth Device+PTL
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
or
Gamma Bomber+Seismic Charges
Gamma Bomber+Seismic Charges
Howlrunner+ 2pts for an upgrade (elusiveness? swarm tactics? determination?)
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Backstabber
i think the initiative might be important depending on matchups, especially against other swarm squads but staying at 100pts even is ok too.
im not a huge fan of missiles/torps on bombers (at least until munitions failsafe gets here). Bombers just with seismics are surprisingly effective - u r getting a very durable ship with 6 hull that even without missiles/torps is a decent dogfighter that will likely be the last ship destroyed.
As long as you run Jonus there aren't often issues with ordinance "whiffing".
But he is a fairly high opportunity cost.
Mind you, against a range of opponents including full Howl Swarm, Han Shoots First, Twin Falcons and Biggs Walks the Daggs I've yet to lose a Scimitar before getting both Missiles off with the exception of those occasions where I screwed up my approach. And even then I've only ever lost a single un-used piece of ordinance.
Im gonna give this squad a run today:
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20).....
both squads have high durability and the option to drop multiple charges
This was my very first squad list until I figured I could add Howlrunner based on ideas from the forum. My buddy added Elusiveness to Howlrunner and won a store championship last Saturday. The Seismics hit a lot more ships that I expected but the overall impact was quite a bit less than I expected. In the end, another ship really makes the difference.
Store Championship or just a regular tournament? I know there are a couple late stragglers left over. If its a championship you should post the winning list in the Store Championship thread. :-)
i think running Jonus is too expensive. for those points u can get more upgrades on ur Gammas. To be honest id rather go with Howlrunner of Jonus so that ur bombers have a stronger mid-end game.
Gamma Bomber+Seismic Charges
Gamma Bomber+Seismic Charges
Howlrunner+ Stealth Device+PTL
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
or
Gamma Bomber+Seismic Charges
Gamma Bomber+Seismic Charges
Howlrunner+ 2pts for an upgrade (elusiveness? swarm tactics? determination?)
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Backstabber
i think the initiative might be important depending on matchups, especially against other swarm squads but staying at 100pts even is ok too.
im not a huge fan of missiles/torps on bombers (at least until munitions failsafe gets here). Bombers just with seismics are surprisingly effective - u r getting a very durable ship with 6 hull that even without missiles/torps is a decent dogfighter that will likely be the last ship destroyed.
For my part, if I was going with charges instead of missiles, I would go with either of these two, probably the last one with Swarm tactics on Howlrunner. I would prefer to leave the initiative to my opponent so he moves his PS4 or less ship before mine, this way I have a better idea when to drop the charges. Swarm tactics help me get an early shot against a same PS ship that should shoot before me and since bombers are very vulnerable to criticals with no shields, I like to shoot before.
But, I have yet to have some success with charges, might have to do with the fact that most of my opponents fly low count ship squadron and not in formation, so getting more than 1-2 is hard, especially when they are also higher PS than me. I've had more success with launching a couple of missiles first strike to kill or cripple one ship. Without Jonus or a second action, I don't think missiles are very reliable. At least with homing, you still keep your TL if the shot goes bad, that kinda help you in the same way Jonus do. That's why it's pretty much the only missile I use without him. It will change once I get my hand on the Flechette Torpedoes and maybe the munition failsafe. But then again, since I don't like the idea of giving more than one ordnance to a ship, why would I pay 1 pts to keep a concussion or proton torpedo when I miss, when I can get a homing missile for the same price and have better chance to hit in the first strike. I might be wrong on the statistics though. Maybe homing is not really better.
For Jonus, I don,t think he's too expensive, depending on the rest of the squadron. Combined with two other bombers, he really help to bring the hurt, especially with Cluster missiles. Since I usually carry no missiles with him, my oppnent tend to leave him alone at first. So in the end, I get to dogfight with a PS6 bomber, which is not that bad. When I have the points left, I like to give him squad leader so the bombing strike is more effective, a charge at PS6 is not that bad too. Also, since his ability is only useful until the ordnances are drop, you can break formation after the alpha strike without remorse.