I beg someone to disagree with me on this. The Anti K' is I honestly believe currently the most game defining card in all of block 2 and soon to be block 3 UFS. Every single deck has to worry about what they play first turn less they get time walked, it is one of the few cards that can punish someone for going first, its a great stop to early Feline spikes because often they will be forced to commit down a foundation they needed to push though the spike (and devistating against 6 HS spike Felecia), and it lets you flush unwanted cards from your hand. in a pinch it can even nuke a block (action or foundation) on a game winning attack and its 1/5 with a printed block too boot.

When building decks latley I will often consider what my foundation base looks like and often side with lower power / lower difficulty cards just to get a better curve in my build that can pass my checks with at least +1 in case i face Anti K. Often times its the only card ill splash in what would be an otherwise mono symbol deck. Even when the card winds up being usless junk against on opponent in a tourney who gets lucky and gets out a destiny turn one or is playing galford, it's still not a wasted card based on the other matches it wins me and even with Ocladans being in every single deck Ill still run it in everything.

I honestly feel that in block 3, this card DEFINES the entire block of cards and helps shape the game more than anything else. Discuss.

You know, I have overlooked this card so much, and I don't know why. This card is pretty awesome on T1, and even T2.

Thanks, Rock Howard just got another trick in his bag.

I can't disagree, it is absolutely devastating, in fact in some ways it's worse than YWNE because at least you had a chance to attempt an attack, and if you had a cheap one your turn wasn't over. Everyone in our area hates Anti-K and it's gotten to the point that we may ban it for local events.

VikramS said:

I'm banning it from mine with 100% certainty

its funny, nobody plays it over here for many reasons

Captain Ren said:

Care to list any of them?

my meta is more casual (but more than casual)

1. i don't play it, if i would, it would be a filler foundation since it would end up in angry players, which needs to be avoided here (we need more players...)
2. They would run it if they play a Kula deck, which isn't going to happen. Even then i don't think they would play the printed effects, thus a simple filler foundation.

Good? Yes

Game Defining? Not Yet

The Anti K has always been one of those fun cards. Ya know the type? Cards that have a decent use, but at the same time a terrible use in most situations? Kinda like Pure Violence.

At the current time the Anti K is a good card. I will never debate that ever in a million years. Yes it can POTENTIALLY stop someone on turn one. Yes it can POTENTIALLY stop someone from Spiking you. But you see the key word in those points is potentially. Let's examine:

The average deck these days runs around 35-40+ foundations and roughly 6-10 attacks (some decks, like a fire deck may run more attacks). Now of those 35-40 foundations, I'm willing to wager the majority are 1/5's, 2/5's, and 1/6's. Maybe one 2-3/4 or a 3/5 but very rarley anything with worse stats than that. Throw in three-four Olcadan's (0/6 for those that don't know) and maybe a Lynette's (3/6) or possibly Family Heirloom (2/4 I think) and you've got the majority of your deck checking 4+.

Now let's examing the standard non balls to the wall first turn:

2 diff foundations, followed by another 2 diff (now 3) foundation, followed by (usually) a 1 diff (which turns into a 3), potentially another 1 diff (now 4) foundations, an an Olcadan's (at this point diff 4).

Now assuming that the player's deck doesn't suck he should be able to check a 2/3/3/4/4 pretty gosh darn easily. On the off chance he spins a 3 on his 4 diff foundation, not too big a loss in that he or she already has three foundations on the board and the Olcadan's safely in hand for next turn.

Now let's look at the other player's deck. Said player has to be able to play a Chaos/Evil/Life card to start with. Not too much of a stretch, but unless they're playing one of those three symbols main, that's kinda a smidge risky, especially if yer stuck with it, and an off symbol block on a kill turn.

Next point is that the player in question has to have said Anti K in his hand. Now going on the assumption that the average deck is 59+ character- 64+ character cards big, and the average character's handsize is 6, that's a roughly 10% chance (my math is terrible at 3 am so feel free to correct me) that you'll draw one in the opening hand (not counting a mull).

Now here's the next problem with the card. Let's say your opponent aces his checks first turn. What are you going to do with it now? Discard it so it can become Olcadan bait? (that's my next point). Let it sit in your hand as a potential off symbol block? Keep it in the hopes of it committing just one more foundation for when they attack you? (which in turn floods your card pool). Anti K's usefulness as an off symbol card in a lot of decks drops significantly after the first two turns, and I've personally found through play testing that you'll be hard pressed to use one.

My next point is that it's a god awful foundation. It has good stats in a 1/5, a mediocre +3 mid block, and the most overcosted ability I've ever seen. It in my opinion next to Clones, is the biggest Olcadan's bait out there.

R: Commit AND destroy 2 foundations (there's a cost, so if there's an inhuman perception out... What a waist): Before a control check is made, it gets -X. X = the LOWEST DIFFICULTY PRINTED (yes I cap for emphasis, more on that later) on the foundations destroyed to pay the cost. Failing this check doesn't end the combat phase.

Now let's disect this:

Cost: Commit it, and blow up two of your foundations. For a hack that is little (as I said the average printed difficulty on a foundation in a deck is 1-2) that doesn't end the phase, this card is horribly overpriced.

Effect: Now I'd give this card some thought, if it doubled with Secret Project. Then it might be usefull as your normal 3 diff foundation shoots upwards of 6-7 diff. However it has that blasted word of "printed" on it. As such, the difficulty on the foundations stays the same... Sad. Oh and did I mention it doesn't end the combat phase? So you just commied/blew up three foundations, and their turn keeps going.

Symbols:

Chaos- Chaos is good, and ready to bust into the top tier. So yay for that

Evil- Great foundation base, but does it honestly have a way to kill you?

Life- Eheh.... Remember back when Life had Deceptive Look and was kinda scary? Well Deceptive Look is gone now, and Life sucks.

So anywho's I'm sure I could type more if it wasn't 3 am, and I'm prolly missing some points but eh, here's a start.

Cheers,

Brad

I think my argument against you is that the anti K is so powerful half the time the card dosent have to be in your deck to affect how someone plays.

Play against any character with one of the anti k's symbols, even if not the primary one they are chaining off of, and see how you decide on what to play based on if they have 2 cards in there hands or not. Even if you do not stop the first or second foundation, you can drasticly slow a player down by nuking an early foundation, and if someone rolls an attack your most likley gonna get them on it.

As Ocladas bait I disagree as well. First and formost everyone needs foundations to pass checks so its the first to be committed. Woppie. Regardless of your discard pile, if the foundation you had in play was a danger to your opponent its getting removed for whatever is least useful to you anyways. I have won games based on the strength of a -2 to a block late chain from anti k as well, so it has it's uses unlike clones which in some decks truly was a dead foundation.

Lastly the bit about the game being mostly 6 HS characters is wrong too. well not wrong, but misleading. 99% of the characters in the game could be 6 HS, but that dosent matter much if the 1% are the ones that see play. Let's face it on a competitive level 7 HS still dominates, and the 6 HSer who sees the most play is alex who is basicly a 9 hand sizer.

Anyone who was at worlds saw anti K running rampant. I know James acredits quite a few game wins to it in his worlds winning ibuki deck, and most people who were there remember shouts of "OH #### ITS THE COPS"

Our meta hasn't really run The Anti K' until recently, and to be honest, it's no better or worse than Akuma's Dark Hado was back in the legacy days. don't get me wrong, it's certainly unpleasant to see in combination with Forethought and the like, but I don't think it's game breaking just yet. Whenever I've played it, I've found that it's less than useful past turn 2, and is ideal Olcadan fodder.

I did, however, play a nasty Sophitia:: deck built off Order and Chaos that used Forethought/Anti K'/Herself to lock the opponent, with Ira Spinta to get rid of whatever they did have. It wasn't nice, it was a Defender loop waiting to happen. I'm just praying that more cards like it don't come out, lest cards with a difficulty of higher than 3 become obsolete.

Viewtiful_Joe said:

Except Akuma's Dark Hado has to be in play, so you can't use it going second, and your opponent sees that card coming.

I'm pretty sure Rejection is the most important card in the format right now... all Anti-K does is ask you to play more conservatively on turns 1 and 2, so far as deckbuilding goes it doesn't discourage anything players wouldn't want to avoid anyway. What does it make you do? Play less high diff foundations? Play better checks? Make sure to have some low diff foundations? These are all things people are usually trying to do anyway. On the other hand, Rejection (especially now with its looping capabilities) flatly invalidates a vast number of strategies, and is pretty much the sole reason why everyone these days seems to feel like they need to kill with loops/mill or a Feline Spike with near-CSS levels of protection. That's format warping.

Protoaddict said:

While I agree with you that The Anti K' is powerful, I can not in any way shape or form say that this card DEFINES block 3.

I don't think its anywhere near as close to defining the block as Ocladans has and continues to be. Even in your post you give a nod to making a concious decision to run it despite Ocladans. Ocladans furthermore can be in any deck, and a lot of people have to find reasons not to run it. Ocladans has also pushed and forced many players to make better decisions in constructing their decks and work to learn better deck design. Its also one of the defining reasons why people wish there was more asset destruction.

Feline Spike as well I believe has had more effect on the game both in block 2 and so far for block 3. Its -the- attack currently. Heck the only excuse not to run Feline Spike on those symbols, for the most part, seems to be 'because I don't have them'. And even for some people thats not enough reason. I saw Feline Spike at ECC this past year, but I didn't see or hear of The Anti K' really and maybe thats because I didn't play the right people, or my friends didn't play the right people, but in a meta at the time that was dominated by evil...and there was really no The Anti K' to be seen...you can't really say it defined block 2. Chain Throw would be a better canadite for defining block 2, absurd being closely behind it if not tied.

Another huge canadite for defining block 3 is Rejection, yet another card that if you're running those symbols people all over the place look at you funny if you don't run it. A card that forces people currently to adapt their stratagies to being Rejection looped and dealing with Rejection loops. A card thats been banned from a good number of water tourneys if the old boards are any indication. When someone comes up with a combo half the time on the boards the first question is "What happens if they have Rejection?" if its not already answered in the post.

Locally the The Anti K' doesn't really see play. Granted that is partialy because we've started getting newer players who don't have it. And its partialy because we don't have a lot of evil or chaos decks. Not a single person played it durring the life event either...or the evil event....or the chaos event. It just hasn't really seen any amount of play outside of two decks that were fun themed Kula decks that were primarily using her card pool.

The Anti K' to me, in comparison with the other cards in block 3 so far and what we saw in block 2, is a meer footnote in what has and currently is defining the game. Should it be? Maybe not. But is there enough evidence to even think of saying its defined the game more than some of the most hated and stratagized against cards in the game? No I don't think so. And I honestly don't think there ever will be, or even that there can be in the face of just the 3 cards I talked about here.

Some decks I have play Anti'K, some don't.

If an opponent is playing it (or could be playing it), you have to play round it, that's a given, there are other cards you have to play round, such as Rejection, Battle Prowess, Red Lotus. There are other hand based counter cards you have to play around - KFT, Absurd, Tag Along.

Not every one of my evil decks runs Anti'K. It's good, very good, but unless you've got a way of maximising it's use past turn two, it can end up a redundant card. Some characters can, some can't; and the ones who can make the card deadly.

All that being said, it's not the be all and end all. With Owlface and other 0 diff's around, it's very easy to go 2-1-0 on the first turn (assuming 3cc consistency) or even 1-0-1 (assuming 2cc). The threat of Anti'K also discounts the potential for an Anti'K player even having the card in hand turn one. While they can mulligan, they won't always and even if they do, they may not see a starting Anti'K.

In conclusion (after going round the houses!), I'd certainly list it as a power card, but not as "the most important card in the game." That honor goes to Owlface.

VikramS said:

I've been slacking then. I've made people hate Ways of Punishment, and X has made people hate Self-Sacrifice, but The Anti-K' definitely isn't the target of wanton hatred.

Gotta remedy that.

Anti K' is real good, but I wouldn't use it wihtout access to megolomania and manifest destiny. Otherwise it just sucks in the late game... at least with those, you can have some mid-late game power with those cards and end turns prematurely.

I think it falls Directly in the "both overrated and underrated" catagory heavily.

It's great because it is a 5 check card that can pretty much outright win you games.

It's actually not so great because when it isnt outright winning yougames, it's not doing you much good at all. I know at some events Andrew never used the **** thing once, and at the same times, James hata Got past me in top 4 of worlds 2008 because of a well placed double anti-k.

It's amazing, but sometimes its totally dead, and when im up against it I don't play any differently past the first turn of the game, so it rarely bothers me.

I dunno I think its great but it shouldn't be banned I honestly still feel forethought is more of a problem if were worried about cc hax. I mean your opponent has to check a 3 or lower turn one and its a auto mentoring in card most of the time . I see where everyone is coming from but at the same time some people dont see it played everywhere.

I've never felt it needed to be banned. Lost Memories and Ring Vet helped shape block one, neither needed to be banned.

The Anti K' is a very good card no doubt when coupled with forethought but I don't think Anti K' is much of a threat past turn 1, most games I've played against it all it does is maybe prevent me from playing a foundation.

In terms of blocking it will force your opponent to tap an extra one possibly, provided they haven't already over shot the mark when they checked already and you've put more cards in your own card pool, so it wouldn't be the "most important card in the game" but it still is a decent card, I would possibly run 3 in a deck but never 4, it would just be olcadan's fodder.

You BEG somebody to disagree with you? Then beg no more =D

Overhyped card is overhyped, plain and simple. Permitame...

It's obvious you're referring to its action side, so let's talk about its foundation side, yes?

It's garbage. I realize people will say it has some use, and that it isn't completely Olcadan'sbait, but let's face it, its use is as limited as Clones'. You're committing it, then destroying 2 foundations (could include itself) to possibly give your opponent's check...like -1 or 2. Blood Runs True covers more than that at less a cost. Maniac and Ostracized do a better job. 1 difficulty is nice, but so are Unrequited Love, Forethought, and Won't Settle for Second Best, all of which do things. It's foundation side, case and point, is worthless.

As an action, it rots in your hand (with a crap block modifier, I might add) until it can be used. If it isn't used turn 1, I'm sorry, it's just not very useful, and really, why would you judge a card based on its turn 1 effectiveness? Infiltrating is a good card because it can be used at ANY point in the match and matter. Its action IS only good during the first turn. Sure, you could reduce their already failed check on an attack, but reducing a check from 3 to 2 doesn't mean anything seeing as how they will be able to pass it, and now you've used two cards from the hand to clog two spots in the card pool.

And look at its symbols. Life is trash, Chaos is pretty alright, and Evil is amazing. But, I don't mean just that: look at their competition. Evil and Life have Rejection and Kung-Fu Training to compete with, and Evil also has Absurd Strength, meaning you have to compete with 2 to 3 of the best actions in the game (unless you're Chaos).

Is Anti K' good? Yes. We've seen the mark its made on our game at Worlds, so to deny it of any use would be stupid and basically wrong. However, best card in the game? No. Like I said, its usefulness declines the later in the game it gets, its block modifier sucks, has a costly action side, an even more costly foundation side, I'd say average symbol spread.

So, there lol, you've been disagreed with.

It, combined with Rejection, make 16-20 attack aggro decks completely unplayable.

I'd get in to why, but I trust most of you are smart enough to figure it out by now, and besides, I'm going out for poker and beer.

it's the Armored Defense of the set.

It's both your savior and some random card you don't really need.

I believe that it is ONE of the most important cards in the game. There are quite a few cards that combine to shape this new season.

Running this card based on just the fact that it WILL win games is most definitely a great reason to run it. AND YES, the foundation side is very useful!

I will say one thing. During Worlds, I had NO chance against Hata. The Anti K' single handidly forced me out of the game. Well placed, it forced a my Revitalize to end my turn instead of forcing a stall out.

it, rejection, gorgeous team, hybrid style all good cards. I also like how The Bigger They are... is really overlooked, it has caused some serious pain with my decks, especialy in a straight order deck; Experienced Combatant + TBTA = profit if timed right; Chinese Boxing + Program Malfunction is also a defining part of block 3. Do take note that these cards w/the exception of the Cops has either Water or Order or both. That is all... *goes back to corner and shuts up*

N.J.