I just wrecked my party of heroes using harpies during "The Wyrm Turns." I had won encounter 1, but I still don't think they could have won otherwise.

I started the map with a minion harpy adjacent to the dragon skull, and the master 5 spaces away. Minion harpy picked up the token and moved 3 spaces toward the master, then the master used "Flock" twice, moving it 4 more spaces. The harpy is now 9 movement points from the win at the end of my first turn, and out of range of all of the heroes. I passed the token to Belthir when he spawned and he walked off with it, but the harpy could have otherwise been standing on the last entrance tile by the end of my second turn. A "Dash" or "Blinding Speed" would have ended it in two turns. Since the harpy can fly, I don't see how the heroes could have possibly countered this- there was a similar strategy/outcome in "The Frozen Spire."

My point is that the combination of "Flock" , "Fly" , and a native speed of 5 make harpies deadly for race quests, and it borders on overpowered. Has anyone else noticed this? Is this as bad as the Elemental's "Air" ability once was?

EDIT: Misspoke- the harpy was 9 movement points away- two more were granted by flock on turn 2.

i played this quest as a hero, i countered the use of harpies by blowing heroic abilities, racing to the last tile then killing them all in one turn

This was a while back though when still nutting out the finer parts of the rules - we were wrongly playing it that the monsters could not pick up the skull is a player was standing on it. Despite this, the overlord managed to kill the hero, pick up the token, and got 2 movement points away from winning the quest.

Looking back on it i find it hard to see how the heroes could actually win this quest at all. The OL was using harpies, hybrid sentinels and vultrix reavers - i remember it well because it was the quest that i worked out that we were playing that rule wrongly. The only way to win would be to kill anything that flys then block the entrance, which is easier said than done if the overlord is using harpies + hybrid sentinals(they also fly and are difficult to kill).

You also need to remember that harpies did not exist when this quest was being created.

Razorwings did.

There's always a way. You might have to get really creative and blow all of the parties fatigue/heroic feats in a balls-out charge on turn 1, but thems the breaks. My group has become insanely good at predicting the earliest turn on which its possible for them to lose and then using that as an ever-fixed brick wall of non-optional "win by this point at all costs."

You also need to remember that harpies did not exist when this quest was being created.

I understand that they're an expansion monster, but that's kind of my point- their particular set of abilities is almost quest breaking. I chose not to use hybrids, because I knew I would have Belthir- also, I know my heroes, and they like to kill things- so I gave them targets- merriods and reavers (merriods for damage, and reavers that could pick up the skull + skirmish if need be.)

I purposely kept my monsters away from the entrance to lure the heroes away from it- but none of them had the ability to get close enough to my harpies to take them out on the first turn- I really don't think it was possible for them.

I should point out I'm facing:

Avric the Disciple

Leoric the Necromancer

Durik the Beastmaster

Jaes the Runemaster

Therefore, none of the heroic feats (or abilities, really, except Durik) had much to do with movement. Leoric killed 3 monsters (and damaged 3 more) with an "Army of Death," but it didn't affect my objective at all.

I'm having a hard time picturing this. I can't figure out how your minion harpy was 7 squares away from winning on the first turn. And even if it was, that places it well within move+kill/snipe range. What am I missing here?

Jee

I'm having a hard time picturing this. I can't figure out how your minion harpy was 7 squares away from winning on the first turn. And even if it was, that places it well within move+kill/snipe range. What am I missing here?

Jee

The harpy was 9 spaces from winning at the end of it's first turn. It started diagonal and adjacent to the Dragon skull- after picking it up, it moved 3 spaces, and was "Flock" moved twice by the master harpy, who was on the upper of two spaces connecting the waterfall to 17A (on the right.) The harpy ended on the first of the connector pieces- two of the heroes had gone to the left, and two to the right. On the right, I also had 4 reavers, who dealt a fair bit of damage, while still blocking a hero path to the harpy.

On turn 2, the master moved and flocked once more, moving the harpy within 7 of victory. Minion moved 3, dropped the token in an adjacent space. It was picked up by Belthir, (who spawned on the entrance that turn) and he carried it off. Even if he had not been there, the harpy would have been on the last entrance tile if she performed a second move- a dash or blinding speed would have won the game at that point. Since she flies, she can't be stopped.

I didn't use harpies for that quest and I lost encounter one. I still won. It was a pain staking win though. My heroes where butt sore from it. Close call for all of us. I had road blocks muscling their way, keeping my weaker beasties safe while it got out with that I needed.

Sorry, I don't remember what I was playing. One of the monsters had knock back or throw, which pushed the hero blockade out to let my monster threw. Nail biting, for sure!

Sorry, I don't remember what I was playing. One of the monsters had knock back or throw, which pushed the hero blockade out to let my monster threw. Nail biting, for sure!

I'm not using 1st edition monsters, and I've been shying away from Ettins because the heroes' might values are 3,3,3,1 (with equipment.) Throw is a coin flip wasted action. If I didn't pick harpies, I don't know what would have done it except perhaps hybrid sentinels (I could have probably chosen them instead of reavers anyway.) The harpies are just such an obvious pick for quick monster movement- if needed, ALL of the minions could move 14 spaces in 1 turn without any OL cards (two flock + 2 move each.)

I'm not so impressed that I think "Flock" should be limited to once per turn or "within 3 spaces" rather than 5, but they outmatch any competition as far as raw speed, especially considering that they can fly, and are only 1x1 (so even though a shadow dragon can move almost that far, it has placement restrictions.)

Sorry, I don't remember what I was playing. One of the monsters had knock back or throw, which pushed the hero blockade out to let my monster threw. Nail biting, for sure!

I'm not using 1st edition monsters, and I've been shying away from Ettins because the heroes' might values are 3,3,3,1 (with equipment.) Throw is a coin flip wasted action. If I didn't pick harpies, I don't know what would have done it except perhaps hybrid sentinels (I could have probably chosen them instead of reavers anyway.) The harpies are just such an obvious pick for quick monster movement- if needed, ALL of the minions could move 14 spaces in 1 turn without any OL cards (two flock + 2 move each.)

I'm not so impressed that I think "Flock" should be limited to once per turn or "within 3 spaces" rather than 5, but they outmatch any competition as far as raw speed, especially considering that they can fly, and are only 1x1 (so even though a shadow dragon can move almost that far, it has placement restrictions.)

Coin toss or not, I got it. ^.~ you just need to know who to target.

But I guess my point is that the quest has been won without flying or flock. It wasn't easy, but it is worth it.

Why didn't the heroes kill the Minion Harpy carrying the token on the first turn?

Why didn't the heroes kill the Minion Harpy carrying the token on the first turn?

Their way was blocked by two merriods on one side, and a group of reavers on the other- the only character who could have potentially gotten close is the beastmaster, who would have to move once, spend all but 1 fatigue, summon his wolf for his last fatigue and second action, and then let the wolf move his 4- he would still be too many spaces away for a melee attack. I killed the beastmaster with my reavers on my first turn, so those shenanigans wouldn't be possible on their second turn.

Oh I see. Your heroes didn't have a scout. Eh, you can hardly be blamed for choosing fast monsters to exploit that particular weakness. And I'm not sure you can make a conclusive balance judgement on those types of monsters when they're up against a group that they're meant to exploit.

What did your heroes do on their very first turn? It seems like your setup (1 harpy next to the skull, master only 3 squares away) would sorta give away your intentions. Even if you were blocking the left with Merriods, I can see a number of options for the Heroes here:

- Necromancer move up, summon skele behind merriods, move skele, attack Minion Harpy
- Do the same with the Beast Master and the Wolf (you mentioned this)
- Have Pathfinder Durik spend 2-3 Fatigue + Move Action to walk through the Merriods (burn heroic on the way?) and next to the Harpy, then attack it.
- Focus fire down one of the Merriods (Jaes heroic for Pierce 4?) and then burn fatigue to get to the harpy and attack with the leftover heroes

Was this the first quest in Act 2? Did the heroes just not have enough moxy to burn the monsters down?

I dunno man, from where I'm sitting it sounds like you made a great play and your heroes failed to counter it. I don't see an issue with the Harpies.

Jee

The lack of scout was a weakness I exploited- no question there. However, neither the Necromancer or the Beastmaster were in range of the harpy at the start- the harpy was 14 spaces from the entrance. The reanimate's speed is only 3, and it's melee- the wolf's speed is 4, also melee. Durik's speed is 5 (potential plus 1 from elven boots) and fatigue is 4, but he needs 1 to summon wolf. Leoric has speed 4 (potential +1,) 5 fatigue (1 is used summoning.) So either character could move at most 9 spaces, summon familiar in the 10th, and the familiar could attack either the 14th or 15th space away from the entrance, but this is excluding the existence of any other monsters on the map. Placement of the merriods, reavers, and other harpies shortens that range.

The heroes split up at the beginning- the disciple(10/12 wound) and necromancer(0/10) went to kill the master merriod- they failed, even with a double prayer of healing attack augment. The beastmaster(5/16) and the runemaster(9/12) went toward the reavers. Damaged one, killed another. The necro summoned the reanimate, (buit I web trapped him before he could strike the merriod) the beastmaster did not summon the wolf.

On my first turn, the merriods killed the disciple, and my reavers took down the beastmaster.

The beastmaster was picked up, but did not kill my harpy- even if it did, there were enough reavers around to pick up the token and bring it to Belthir, who would fly off. The encounter had already been lost by the end of my first turn, and I won on my second.

I think it's worth repeating that I don't think the harpies are broken- I just think they're a unique, incredibly powerful monster group for race quests.

- Necromancer move up, summon skele behind merriods, move skele, attack Minion Harpy

- Do the same with the Beast Master and the Wolf (you mentioned this)

I'm believe this only works if there are no valid empty spaces, not if the space you want to put it in is occupied. Which doesn't seem likely in this encounter.

Yes, you're correct. I'm playing against a Geomancer right now and his stones can appear within 3 spaces. Brain fail on that one.

Jee