I have seen a lot of discussion about Epic Points rattling around the Star Destroyer Thread. Much of it seems to assume that Epic Points will follow a linear system akin to what ship cost is now.

I don't think that's the point.

Right now we know the following things.

Epic Team games have 3 Epic Points per player.

Epic Games have 5 per player.

The Transport costs 2.

The CR-90 Costs 3.

I doubt we will ever see a ship cost more or less than these two examples.

3 Points allows 1 per player.

2 Points allows 2 Per Player in Epic games or One and a 3 Point ship.

1 Point Epic ships would allow too many to be fielded at once. Nearly as many as large base ships. This seems unlikely.

4-5 Point Epic ships would be unavailable to Epic Team games, and this seems unlikely as well, because restricting an Epic ship out of part of the Epic Format seems counter-productive on the part of FFG.

I have a strong suspicion that the distinction will come from being a weapon bearing ship or an unarmed one, but we will have to wait and see. I doubt the Empire will get any Large ships at less than 3 Epic Points either way. Their Capitol ship style has always been one of enormity. Smaller ships like the Transport don't seem to fit that style.

This will allow Imperial players to have one Large powerful ship on the field per game. (2 in team games, but likely taking up 90 of each players costs.)

Or, the rules change. Nothing says the current point limits have to stay the same. They could easily add a 1 point Epic and limit it to 2 or 3 per side, or add a 4 or 5 point Epic and change it so Epic points were per team instead of per teammate.

I could see them doing a 1 epic point ship. They're already limiting Large ships to 6 of a type in Epic rules. So 50-75m type ships coming at 1 epic point. That would limit you to no more then 5 in a list, but would also reduce the number of other ships you could field.

Your logic seems sound, esp regarding epic teams (unless they change the rules).

I think also that the ship size is also a consideration in this - I really can't see FFG having any models much bigger than the CR-90 for practical reasons. So an Imp ship would likely be on par with the CR-90.

Edit: A 1 point ship would certainly be interesting Vanor.

given that we have only two samples, it's hard to derive a system from it.

Since the usual points have a balance value beyond categories, I would guess that would hold true also for epic points. (otherwise they could just have gone with named categories)

since the huge ships also have a normal point cost/limits, they could use 1pointer ships and create the balance from the other costs. I for one would guess, that the Imp combo would be a 4pointer and a 1 pointer, it would nicely play with the differences in ship sizes, highlighting the differences instead of trying to avoid them, which they have done before on fighter level. (you could always add a special rule for huge huge ships in epic team games )

OP is wrong on all counts. It's quite funny, actually as the logic used ( 4-5 Point Epic ships would be unavailable to Epic Team games, and this seems unlikely as well, because restricting an Epic ship out of part of the Epic Format seems counter-productive on the part of FFG ) seems to contradict the OP's apparently unshakeable belief that we'll see a Star Destroyer in the game sooner rather than later (we won't, and we won't.)

Smaller ships "don't fit the Imperial Style". Pffftt. Hogwash.

A 4 or 5 wouldn't have to necessarily be bigger, just tougher or with more expansion slots.. A TIE Defender is more points than an Outer Rim Smuggler.

OP is wrong on all counts. It's quite funny, actually as the logic used ( 4-5 Point Epic ships would be unavailable to Epic Team games, and this seems unlikely as well, because restricting an Epic ship out of part of the Epic Format seems counter-productive on the part of FFG ) seems to contradict the OP's apparently unshakeable belief that we'll see a Star Destroyer in the game sooner rather than later (we won't, and we won't.)

Smaller ships "don't fit the Imperial Style". Pffftt. Hogwash.

Personally, I don't expect to see Epic ships at more than 3 points--for the same reason I wouldn't expect to see a single fighter-scale ship worth more than 60 points.

Let's just say Star Destroyers do make it into the game. Why do they have to follow the current Epic Point rules? I think its fair to say a SD is worth far more than 5 EPs. Due to the shear size and firepower of the SD, It's hard to put a number on on it. So just off the top of my head - 50 EPs? My point is IF (not saying they will or won't) are added to the game they couldn't live in the currently established rule set. They would need to have a brand new point mechanic.

Let's just say Star Destroyers do make it into the game. Why do they have to follow the current Epic Point rules? I think its fair to say a SD is worth far more than 5 EPs. Due to the shear size and firepower of the SD, It's hard to put a number on on it. So just off the top of my head - 50 EPs? My point is IF (not saying they will or won't) are added to the game they couldn't live in the currently established rule set. They would need to have a brand new point mechanic.

That's applying a linear point scale to Epic Points. Instead they appear to be a limitation. As soon as something costs 3 Epic Points You can only field 1 on any given squad. So Functionally 3 is as appropriate for a Star Destroyer as it is for the Tantive. Of course, so would costing it at over 150 points. But it would also restrict the player have having more than on 3 point Epic ship. It's, in my opinion, purely a way to restrict people to one of a give style of ship, 2 of another. There isn't much reason to have Epic Points in general other than to restrict the Epic ships further than regular ships as is.

Let's just say Star Destroyers do make it into the game. Why do they have to follow the current Epic Point rules? I think its fair to say a SD is worth far more than 5 EPs. Due to the shear size and firepower of the SD, It's hard to put a number on on it. So just off the top of my head - 50 EPs? My point is IF (not saying they will or won't) are added to the game they couldn't live in the currently established rule set. They would need to have a brand new point mechanic.

That's applying a linear point scale to Epic Points. Instead they appear to be a limitation. As soon as something costs 3 Epic Points You can only field 1 on any given squad. So Functionally 3 is as appropriate for a Star Destroyer as it is for the Tantive. Of course, so would costing it at over 150 points. But it would also restrict the player have having more than on 3 point Epic ship. It's, in my opinion, purely a way to restrict people to one of a give style of ship, 2 of another. There isn't much reason to have Epic Points in general other than to restrict the Epic ships further than regular ships as is.

Understood. Maybe I need to rephrase what I'm saying: A SD has as much in common with a CR-90 as a CR-90 does with a Tie Fighter. Points are used to limit 'small' ships and 'large' ships. Points and Epic Points are used to limit 'huge' ships. ____________ are used to limit 'ridiculously huge' ships.

Let's just say Star Destroyers do make it into the game. Why do they have to follow the current Epic Point rules? I think its fair to say a SD is worth far more than 5 EPs. Due to the shear size and firepower of the SD, It's hard to put a number on on it. So just off the top of my head - 50 EPs? My point is IF (not saying they will or won't) are added to the game they couldn't live in the currently established rule set. They would need to have a brand new point mechanic.

That's applying a linear point scale to Epic Points. Instead they appear to be a limitation. As soon as something costs 3 Epic Points You can only field 1 on any given squad. So Functionally 3 is as appropriate for a Star Destroyer as it is for the Tantive. Of course, so would costing it at over 150 points. But it would also restrict the player have having more than on 3 point Epic ship. It's, in my opinion, purely a way to restrict people to one of a give style of ship, 2 of another. There isn't much reason to have Epic Points in general other than to restrict the Epic ships further than regular ships as is.

Understood. Maybe I need to rephrase what I'm saying: A SD has as much in common with a CR-90 as a CR-90 does with a Tie Fighter. Points are used to limit 'small' ships and 'large' ships. Points and Epic Points are used to limit 'huge' ships. ____________ are used to limit 'ridiculously huge' ships.

No, it claims that a Satr Destroyer would be 3 Epic Points. Because they are not a linear point cost, but a number that can be fielded at once. But again, this topic isn't about that debate at all. It's about what Epic points are being used for. So stay on topic and leave Star Destroyers out.

OK. On topic, your interpretation is that Epic Points are not representative of a linear points cost. My interpretation is that they are, and you are wrong. And yes, let's leave Star Destroyers out. Please. Let's leave them out.

No, it claims that a Satr Destroyer would be 3 Epic Points. Because they are not a linear point cost, but a number that can be fielded at once. But again, this topic isn't about that debate at all. It's about what Epic points are being used for. So stay on topic and leave Star Destroyers out.

OK. On topic, your interpretation is that Epic Points are not representative of a linear points cost. My interpretation is that they are, and you are wrong. And yes, let's leave Star Destroyers out. Please. Let's leave them out.

No, it claims that a Satr Destroyer would be 3 Epic Points. Because they are not a linear point cost, but a number that can be fielded at once. But again, this topic isn't about that debate at all. It's about what Epic points are being used for. So stay on topic and leave Star Destroyers out.

OK. On topic, your interpretation is that Epic Points are not representative of a linear points cost. My interpretation is that they are, and you are wrong. And yes, let's leave Star Destroyers out. Please. Let's leave them out.

Do you think we'll see 4 and 5 point epic ships then? And what fits the bill for 1 point Epics that can't just be a large base ship, seeing you think they'll happen. What would justify half the Epic cost of a Transport?(Especially give the Epic ships destroying things they run into?)

This wasn't directed at me, but again--no, I don't expect to see 4-5 point Epic ships, and although I'm open to being surprised on this point, I also don't think we'll see 1-point Epic ships.

Let's just say Star Destroyers do make it into the game. Why do they have to follow the current Epic Point rules? I think its fair to say a SD is worth far more than 5 EPs. Due to the shear size and firepower of the SD, It's hard to put a number on on it. So just off the top of my head - 50 EPs? My point is IF (not saying they will or won't) are added to the game they couldn't live in the currently established rule set. They would need to have a brand new point mechanic.

That's applying a linear point scale to Epic Points. Instead they appear to be a limitation. As soon as something costs 3 Epic Points You can only field 1 on any given squad. So Functionally 3 is as appropriate for a Star Destroyer as it is for the Tantive. Of course, so would costing it at over 150 points. But it would also restrict the player have having more than on 3 point Epic ship. It's, in my opinion, purely a way to restrict people to one of a give style of ship, 2 of another. There isn't much reason to have Epic Points in general other than to restrict the Epic ships further than regular ships as is.

Understood. Maybe I need to rephrase what I'm saying: A SD has as much in common with a CR-90 as a CR-90 does with a Tie Fighter. Points are used to limit 'small' ships and 'large' ships. Points and Epic Points are used to limit 'huge' ships. ____________ are used to limit 'ridiculously huge' ships.

If you give them a separate set of points you're nullifying the use of Epic points. Do you choose between Super-Epic Points and Epic Points. Can you run Epic ships and Super-Epic ships together? That doesn't seem an effective method.

Sure can! With the introduction of huge ships and Epic Play the amount of player points increased. If an even larger ship size and gameplay mode was introduced I'd assume both points and Epic points would also increase while also introducing Super-Epic points.

Epic Team games have 3 Epic Points per player.

Epic Games have 5 per player.

The Transport costs 2.

The CR-90 Costs 3.

I doubt we will ever see a ship cost more or less than these two examples.

3 Points allows 1 per player.

2 Points allows 2 Per Player in Epic games or One and a 3 Point ship.

1 Point Epic ships would allow too many to be fielded at once. Nearly as many as large base ships. This seems unlikely.

4-5 Point Epic ships would be unavailable to Epic Team games, and this seems unlikely as well, because restricting an Epic ship out of part of the Epic Format seems counter-productive on the part of FFG.

This is exactly how I interpreted it, OP. Saying that the limit is 5 points gives them the option of allowing two smaller capital ships at 2 points, just one larger capital ship at 3 points, or one small and one large capital ship when you combine the two for 5 points. It makes sense.

So yeah, we probably won't see capital ships at 4 or 5 points because they would be unnecessary mathematically, and we won't see 1-point capital ships because it would be almost the same as large-base ships.

With 2 whole data points we have no way of knowing how the epic points actually work. We only know that a GR-75 Transport costs 2, and the CR-90 Corvette costs 3.

That is simply not enough data to make even an educated guess.

If the point was to simply put a limit in, they could of chosen different point values.

If a GR-75 costs 1, an CR-90 costs 2, and you're limited to 3 Epic Points then you have the same effect. The fact that the two ships are in the middle of the scale, seems to hint at more and less expensive ships in the works. But the epic team being limited to 3 points does seem to hint that 3 is the most expensive you'll see for a ship in the game. Because it doesn't seem to make sense they'd put out ships that can't be used in the team epic format.

Epic Team games have 3 Epic Points per player.

Epic Games have 5 per player.

The Transport costs 2.

The CR-90 Costs 3.

I doubt we will ever see a ship cost more or less than these two examples.

3 Points allows 1 per player.

2 Points allows 2 Per Player in Epic games or One and a 3 Point ship.

1 Point Epic ships would allow too many to be fielded at once. Nearly as many as large base ships. This seems unlikely.

4-5 Point Epic ships would be unavailable to Epic Team games, and this seems unlikely as well, because restricting an Epic ship out of part of the Epic Format seems counter-productive on the part of FFG.

This is exactly how I interpreted it, OP. Saying that the limit is 5 points gives them the option of allowing two smaller capital ships at 2 points, just one larger capital ship at 3 points, or one small and one large capital ship when you combine the two for 5 points. It makes sense.

So yeah, we probably won't see capital ships at 4 or 5 points because they would be unnecessary mathematically, and we won't see 1-point capital ships because it would be almost the same as large-base ships.

I tend to agree with the theory that epic points don't serve to represent ship power but serve as a limit to the number of huge ships you can field - the standard points system serving to balance ship power.

However, I don't see a 1 point epic ships as being out of the question entirely.

I have a feeling a 1 point epic ship might come with a restriction to the number of ships of the same type you can field at once (12 small ships, 6 large ships, 2? 3? huge ships). Or it might just be a unique. This would allow you to field a 1pt, a 2pt and a 3pt huge ship in Team Epic.

They could also come out with an upgrade for the Shuttle or another large ship that buffs it but costs 1 Epic Point. But I don't think this is likely

A 4-5 point epic ship does seem like it would "contradict" the 3 Epic Points limit per player for Team Epic...

Let's just say Star Destroyers do make it into the game. Why do they have to follow the current Epic Point rules? I think its fair to say a SD is worth far more than 5 EPs. Due to the shear size and firepower of the SD, It's hard to put a number on on it. So just off the top of my head - 50 EPs? My point is IF (not saying they will or won't) are added to the game they couldn't live in the currently established rule set. They would need to have a brand new point mechanic.

That's applying a linear point scale to Epic Points. Instead they appear to be a limitation. As soon as something costs 3 Epic Points You can only field 1 on any given squad. So Functionally 3 is as appropriate for a Star Destroyer as it is for the Tantive. Of course, so would costing it at over 150 points. But it would also restrict the player have having more than on 3 point Epic ship. It's, in my opinion, purely a way to restrict people to one of a give style of ship, 2 of another. There isn't much reason to have Epic Points in general other than to restrict the Epic ships further than regular ships as is.

Understood. Maybe I need to rephrase what I'm saying: A SD has as much in common with a CR-90 as a CR-90 does with a Tie Fighter. Points are used to limit 'small' ships and 'large' ships. Points and Epic Points are used to limit 'huge' ships. ____________ are used to limit 'ridiculously huge' ships.

If you give them a separate set of points you're nullifying the use of Epic points. Do you choose between Super-Epic Points and Epic Points. Can you run Epic ships and Super-Epic ships together? That doesn't seem an effective method.

Sure can! With the introduction of huge ships and Epic Play the amount of player points increased. If an even larger ship size and gameplay mode was introduced I'd assume both points and Epic points would also increase while also introducing Super-Epic points.

Epic Team games have 3 Epic Points per player.

Epic Games have 5 per player.

The Transport costs 2.

The CR-90 Costs 3.

I doubt we will ever see a ship cost more or less than these two examples.

3 Points allows 1 per player.

2 Points allows 2 Per Player in Epic games or One and a 3 Point ship.

1 Point Epic ships would allow too many to be fielded at once. Nearly as many as large base ships. This seems unlikely.

4-5 Point Epic ships would be unavailable to Epic Team games, and this seems unlikely as well, because restricting an Epic ship out of part of the Epic Format seems counter-productive on the part of FFG.

This is exactly how I interpreted it, OP. Saying that the limit is 5 points gives them the option of allowing two smaller capital ships at 2 points, just one larger capital ship at 3 points, or one small and one large capital ship when you combine the two for 5 points. It makes sense.

So yeah, we probably won't see capital ships at 4 or 5 points because they would be unnecessary mathematically, and we won't see 1-point capital ships because it would be almost the same as large-base ships.

I tend to agree with the theory that epic points don't serve to represent ship power but serve as a limit to the number of huge ships you can field - the standard points system serving to balance ship power.

However, I don't see a 1 point epic ships as being out of the question entirely.

I have a feeling a 1 point epic ship might come with a restriction to the number of ships of the same type you can field at once (12 small ships, 6 large ships, 2? 3? huge ships). Or it might just be a unique. This would allow you to field a 1pt, a 2pt and a 3pt huge ship in Team Epic.

They could also come out with an upgrade for the Shuttle or another large ship that buffs it but costs 1 Epic Point. But I don't think this is likely

A 4-5 point epic ship does seem like it would "contradict" the 3 Epic Points limit per player for Team Epic...

If a GR-75 costs 1, an CR-90 costs 2, and you're limited to 3 Epic Points then you have the same effect.

That's not quite true if you consider the case of Team Epic.

Supposing costs of 1 and 2 Epic Points, if you give Team Epic a limit of 2 Epic Points per player, you could have 2 GR-75 per player for a total of 4 huge ships in the combined squad.

With costs of 2 and 3 Epic Points and a limit of 3 Epic Points/player, each can have one or the other, but there is no way of fielding >2 huge ships at once.

I still agree with your assessment that speculating based on 2 data points is slightly futile... But it's fun

I actually really like the idea of Upgrades that cost 1 Epic Point for Large Ships. I can see Epic Point Upgrades being a thing. Had not thought of that. Brilliant work sir. The best part is that it means the Large base ship won't destroy other ships when they run into them.

I just don't know where they would put them - I doubt they'll sell card packs...

Maybe if they come out with, as certain people are speculating in "The next BIG announcement" thread, large ship repaints for the Millenium Falcon and Slave-I they could stick them in there!

I like this...

If a GR-75 costs 1, an CR-90 costs 2, and you're limited to 3 Epic Points then you have the same effect.

That's not quite true if you consider the case of Team Epic.

Supposing costs of 1 and 2 Epic Points, if you give Team Epic a limit of 2 Epic Points per player, you could have 2 GR-75 per player for a total of 4 huge ships in the combined squad.

With costs of 2 and 3 Epic Points and a limit of 3 Epic Points/player, each can have one or the other, but there is no way of fielding >2 huge ships at once.

I still agree with your assessment that speculating based on 2 data points is slightly futile... But it's fun