Before you finish, I'd like to throw my two ent-cents: shifting regular allies to Ents comes to me as no surprise. Great stats, low cost, synergy among them, penalty that one can live with and they're likable in opposition to Outlanders. Add it all up and they're no-brainer choice, which doesn't exactly make ally part of deckbuilding a rocket science.

Yeah it was inevitable that Ents take over the decks. I absolutely LOVE the Ents thematically and mechanically. Plus I really love the art for all of them except the Treebeard ally (and hero for that matter!).

I actually went the whole way and replaced Faramir (ally) and Sword-thain for two copies of Booming Ent and put the new leadership Faramir Hero in instead of Sam and gave that a try before the changes above and found that it was pretty **** powerful and fun. Leadership Faramir hero is a blast to play with and early game he readies Bill the Pony or Naith Guides and gives you a spare emergency chump blocker/an additional point of attack from that ally. Then as you build forces he is amazing with the Ents and also really good with allies like Orophin who has 2 willpower and attack so is ideal for double duties. As soon as you get Treebeard out he is usually questing for 2 every turn then readied by Faramir to attack or defend later. Gandalf is also amazing (when not sneak attacked) with Faramir. I also swapped the two copies of fast hitch in the other deck to 2 copies of Wingfoot to go on Faramir. I tried a handful of quests and really liked the changes but starting threat was just that little bit too high and the single point of difference in willpower between Sam and Faramir seemed to make far more of a difference than I thought it would. Ultimately I wanted to keep the changes but decided against it and swapped back to Sam....

Shame really. I'm really hoping the new Dunedain leadership hero has relatively low threat (9 or 10) and high willpower (2 or 3), low other stats and a great ability as a alternative to Sam who is great but I am a little over. I bet they will be high threat cost however and more beefy being a dunedain....

Deck 1: Tactics/Leadership

Warriors of Eregion

Heroes:

Sam Gamgee - 8

Elrohir – 10

Elladan - 10

Starting threat – 30

Is that a typo for starting threat, or am I missing something that's increasing it?

Bah totally a mistake, I think that is from when Halbarad was the third hero and the starting threat was indeed 30. I must have never changed it... Thanks for picking up on that I'll edit the most recent post!

I built your two decks up this evening to give them a go (i had to proxy a couple of cards as I don't yet have land of shadow/across the ettenmoors) - I only got one game in, against Wastes of Eriador, but i found they played really well.

I've never particularly liked the twins, but I think you've just changed my mind.

A couple of questions (apologies if this has been asked elsewhere in the thread) - why the one copy of Unexpected Courage? Are you building with one core set, or was this a specific choice?

I found I never wanted to actually play Gildor's Council rather than some other card in hand - how useful do you find this card to actually be? Am I missing it's value?

Oh nice, thanks heaps for giving them a go. Yeah I've found they have really come together over the last few months and work like a well oiled machine at this point! So much refining and changing of just a few cards at a time to try and find the best possible combinations. Yay!!! I love the twins so the fact I have changed your opinion of them means a lot to me, I still think they are vastly underrated.

Only one copy of Unexpected Courage as I only have one core set and only one copy of all the x1 cards. I did however buy a set of cards off ebay early on that gave me 1 copy of all the 2 of cards from the core set which is why I have 3 copies of test of will, hasty stroke, feint, sneak attack etc. At various points I proxied extra copies of Unexpected Courage but never found them that amazing. Glorfindel, the twins and Sam all have inbuilt readying (well Glorfindel with LoV but you get my point) and Fast Hitch and Lembas provide more. There isn't really that much need for more than the one copy of Unexpected Courage which most often goes on Haldir so he can perform his combat action and then attack later in the round as well as there is plenty of readying and it also costs 2 in spirit. This 2 cost in spirit is expensive when there is only 1 spirit hero and often you want to hold a spirit resource back as well for Hasty Stroke or Test of Will. Honestly the second copy would very often sit in my hand for many turns while I played other cards instead. Also lastly I do use proxies quite often but then replace them when I get my hands on the new pack, with unexpected courage any extra copies would remain proxies as I have no intention of getting another core set (probably ever) which kind of bums me out. I like using proxies but also like knowing I will get my hands on the actual card in the near future and swap it in when I do. So to answer with way too long a rant both are kind of true, I am indeed building with one core but it is also a specific choice as well and probably more so because of this as I did at times have a second copy in the decks

Hmmm Gildor's Council seems to be a card that MANY have very different opinions of, see this recent thread for example:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/186388-gildors-counsel/

I still think it is very powerful and very useful and am happy any time I draw a copy. It can give you breathing room to slow the encounter deck down if too many enemies or locations are in play so you can clear what you can of what is in play without much more coming out in a single round. It can help you power quest through a stage that has a very nasty effect you need to escape ASAP, it can give you a free round of staging if a treachery is revealed and you have test of will ready to cancel that treachery. Also in a way gives you a free round of questing when combined with Ranger Spikes if an enemy is revealed. It can stop a quest stage that reveals an extra card during staging from doing so (Journey Down the Anduin quest stage 2, the last quest stage of the Saga Quest Breaking of the Fellowship, Across the Ettenmoors quest stage 2).

Also an underrated card in my opinion.

Thanks so much for giving them a go and giving some feedback

Any other notes or feedback you could give me would be much appreciated, especially if you keep using them.

Played against Escape from Mount Gram earlier, with Sam and Glorfindel as my starting heroes. Worked pretty well, aside from a horrible shadow effect that removed all the attachments I had built up on Sam (he was acting as defender as I never rescued Elrohir).

It was my first go at the quest, so I wasn't certain what to expect. I drew into a couple of sneak attacks early on, and rescued a Gandalf, so I was able to sneak Gandalf and kill a couple of enemies after they had captured some cards, so he functioned like card draw as well, while keeping the threat in staging manageable for Sam to quest and shortly rescue Elladan.

Glorfindel rescued Asfaloth early on, with the location that allows a rescued card to play for free, so he burned through the capture locations quickly.

By the time the jailor and final location emerged, I was in control of the quest, and victory was swift.

A second game followed much the same pattern, but more capturing resulted in rescuing all three of the spirit/lore decks heroes.

I then played Intruders in Chetwood, and defeated it easily. In the later part of the game, I loaded up Haldir with attachments, and he was able to kill the orc war parties after the twins deck engaged them, prior to their attack.

Overall, no real suggestions for tweaks yet, the decks are playing smoothly. I still have yet to play Gildors Council, but considering two of my three games since the last post were escape from Mount Gram, with a starting spirit hero, its probably not surprising.

Are there any quests these decks struggle with? If so, what tweaks do you make for them?

Oh wow, thanks so much for continuing to use them and for providing all this feedback, really means a lot to me!

You went into Mount Gram playing blind! Nice! That would have been pretty exciting. I myself look at spoilers TOO MUCH before a quest is released and lose part of the magic because of this. ah well!

Yeah attachment hate is pretty devastating against these decks, some of the hardest quests in the game for them are the two hobbit saga quests that feature the treachery wind whipped rain.... I absolute hate that card.... leaves on trees or whatever the Druadan forest treachery that discards all attachments is, is pretty **** nasty too.

Yeah Haldir becomes an absolute beast part way into most games and provides a feint like effect many times killing foes off before they can even attack. I love how many nasty shadow effects you avoid doing this!

haha yeah it is definitely not very useful in Mount Gram especially considering it wouldn't really have any effect until both decks have joined each other in a single staging area anyway. Honestly I think Gildors Council is a very subjective card that you either love or think is useless haha, feel free to think of something to replace it with and if you do definitely let me know what you replace it with and I may do the same, at the least on a trial basis.

If you keep playing with the decks (which I highly recommend ) let me know if you do come up with any suggestions or tweaks and what other quests you play with them.

For some of the harder quests out there you definitely can beat them with these decks but you may very well need a fantastic starting hand and a bit of luck to do so. Gather Information does somewhat overcome this though and so long as you have all the pieces you need but one, Gather Information can find that last card for you (Steward, warden of healing, unexpected courage for Haldir, sneak attack to get two uses out of gandalf, arwen, asfaloth etc).

Having said that there definitely are a few quests that these decks struggle with a bit more than the rest, ill give you a list of them and what I do to try and overcome them. Because I employ the whole "one deck to rule them all", or rather two decks, strategy, I pretty much never include or swap certain cards just for a specific quest as the decks are specifically designed to be able to take on more or less everything (with few exceptions) and so instead I take on different strategies or approaches for certain quests.

-Escape from Dol Guldur is no cakewalk but hey unless a deck is built specifically for it, it never is! So long as Elrond and the twins are not the captured hero you always stand a chance. If one of those three are the captive, time to concede and restart! No other specific notes for this one but being clever with the objectives (only attaching them at the last second when you have to) and killing the Nazgul off quickly (which is usually quite easy) and really just strategies anyone would employ for this quest help a ton in getting a victory.

-Journey to Rhosgobel can be hard for any deck if you don't have plenty of healing. Essentially if you don't get a Warden or two or don't get very lucky with Athelas you may very well be screwed. You can very easily swap out a few cards for a few copies of say Waters of Nimrodel when playing this quest however to have a little more healing and have a much better chance of winning.

-Foundations of Stone is probably one of if not the hardest quest for these decks. Getting split up and losing a bunch of attachments is devastating to these deck's core combat strategies. No longer being able to defend both decks with Elrohir via Sentinel can be devastating especially when you are up against such nasty enemies. To combat this you simply need to have a defender for the spirit/lore deck well prepared by the time you get split up. Elrond is the obvious choice and with Light of Valinor on him instead of Glorfindel in certain quests you can still quest with both for 6 but then have a valuable defender instead of attacker remaining. The Leadership/Tactics deck can also struggle a bit to make enough willpower to clear the quest stage it winds up at on its own. I haven't played this quest in a while however and the addition of Sam as a hero and how much faster this deck now plays (not to mention Faramir ally and sneak attack Gandalfs) may make a lot of difference and this deck may be able to clear its own quest stage just as fast as the spirit/lore deck in its current incarnation.... Hmm I should go back and play this one sometime...

Overall how much the two decks depend on each other to be so strong is ultimately their undoing in this quest.

-The Morgul vale is not very easy for the decks as they feature very little direct damage (albeit plenty of attack power) and do have some nice threat reduction but not an abundance. Early game the Double Back player side quest is AMAZING in this quest and can help you pick off Murzag and even Lord Alcarnon with a buffed up Haldir without letting them attack at all or at least only once or twice.

Takes quite a few attempts but you can beat this one if you are clever. Killing Murzag ASAP is key.

-Stone of Erech is up there with Foundations of Stone... pretty sure I have only ever gotten one win against it... plenty of people find it to be the easiest of the POD quests but honestly other than Lake Town its the one I have had the most trouble with. The decks have plenty of attack power but that is next to useless for this quest considering you attack with willpower.... I feel like this quest needs super high willpower decks or specifically tailored decks to win. My decks just do not cut it.

-Battle for Lake town. This one just like Rhosgobel, Dol Guldur, Foundations of Stone and Stone of Erech requires specifically tailored decks to beat so is very difficult for decks like mine. There are many cards in the decks that literally do not do ANYTHING in this quest such as Feint, Rivendell Blade etc.

You definitely can beat it with the decks (have done so once quite recently) but will have a hard time doing so and will need very specific starting hands with both decks. Honestly if you are going to use them when playing this quest it probably really would be worthwhile changing them up quite a bit and at the least taking out cards like ranger spikes, feint etc. I was lazy and did not and still got a win however (and you can always discard these cards to The Old Thrush!) so it is not completely necessary.

-Any of the few Dunlending quests with lots of hand size hate.... These decks can play quickly once they get going but at times do play a little slow especially at the start and this can be very punishing in the quests that employ hand size hate. They are beatable but very frustrating and may take many attempts. Fords of Isen is the worst, Dunland Trap is not so bad... and Antlered Crown for whatever reason is easily the easiest of them and is usually a cakewalk for the decks for some reason.

I have to say that Asfaloth is a little bit of a crutch for the decks and there are a handful of quests that you really need to get Asfaloth in the first few turns to have a decent chance of winning. You can still beat them without him but nowhere near as reliably. A few of these nature I can think of off the top of my head are Redhorn Gate (get progress stacked up on Caradhras early so you only have to face its awful -1 willpower effect on stage 3 for a single turn later on), To Catch an Orc (in which you can actually employ a really sneaky trick as well by choosing the location with 2 progress points as one of the starting locations in staging and then clearing it during planning on the first turn with Asfaloth bringing the starting cards in the staging area down to 1 on the first turn) and Nin-in-Eilph which is quite location heavy but requires you to race against time counters to get anywhere.

Sure was a lot of detail describing a few tiny changes =)

haha yep. was going to keep it short and simple and got carried away ranting about Fast Hitch and Hobbits.

Barely been able to play of late, but I now have across the ettenmoors and treachery of rhuadar waiting to be played, so I'll try out these changes over the weekend.

Any updates? I'd love to read more of your deck evolution and tweaks!

Thanks Cassan =)

Just the nudge I needed to post some recent changes I've made!

I'll post new changes shortly!

I Think I could guess that big change...

As much as I like Sam , I really think Arwen suits the noldor-brother-deck so much better!

Have you thought about including Silver Harp to support the discard-play-mechanic?

Silver Harp is great for the Noldor discard mechanic in general but for my decks the aim is to always be discarding Elven Light or Lords of the Valar, there will always be games where you might discard a couple of cards early game before a copy of Elven Light appears but Silver Harp directly messes with both Elven Light and Lords of the Eldar returning them to your hand when they are both only playable from the discard pile.

If I was running cards like Elven Jeweller and Steed of Imladris I would include Silver Harp but as the decks are now I think it would be more detrimental than beneficial. Thanks so much for your feedback though! =)

You are absolutely right. I mixed up two topics here..

I thought about including Silver Harp to support Arwen 's discard-mechanic.. but with 6 cards (3 Elven-light + 3 Lords of the Eldar ) to discard already and a limit of Arwen's action once per round, it's probably not worth it.

Dude, you didn't highlight which cards changed! Now I have to do a manual comparison. You're heavily increasing my 1st-world-problem load!

=D

I took out x3 Ranger Provisions (don't need the resouces when Arwen can provide an additional resource every single turn), 1x Skinbark/Beechbone (who are great but not really necessary in the deck), 1x Bill the Pony (useless without Sam in the decks) and 1x Galadriel (who is fantastic but I couldn't figure out what else to cut and she does only last a turn, even at only x1 now she still see's play pretty often especially thanks to all the extra card draw from Arwen/Elven Light) to make room for the

x3 lords of the valar and x3 Elven Light.

In the other deck I took out the three copies of Arwen and replaced them with three copies of Galadriel's Handmaiden.

Still 2 cost spirit for 2 willpower, yes they are more squishy with 1 hitpoint but you can have more than one out unlike the 3 copies of Arwen ally and the small threat reduction is always nice. Considered many other cards for these 3 slots but ultimately decided to put in a card that would still fill the role of the Arwen ally so far as questing goes (so 2 willpower for 2 spirit resources), the handmaiden is also fairly thematic and works well with Elrond who is able to pay for her with his ability.

do you play with the decks or just curious as to the exact changes?

Just curious at this point. I have countless decks I want to try and nearly zero time to test them, but I hope to get to these eventually.