Hi! I'm new with this game and have a question.

Can a Ghoul abandon a Raised from Dead Follower?, Will he stay in the space where the Ghoul abandoned him?

What happen with the Raised from Dead Followers of a Ghoul if he is turned into a Toad?

Thanks in advance

;-)

Erni said:

Hi there!

Ghoul can abandon a raised from dead Follower, but it's going to discard pile (because, when it became a Follower, it stopped being an Enemy). Same is for, when Ghould became a Toad. Only Ghoul can have raised from dead Followers, when link between them is broken, thise Enemy-Followers are put at discard pile.

IMO of course

Nemomon said:

I have actually never think about this one.

Ditching dead followers lol. Nah that is not possible. I think you are correct my friend

Erni said:

Never thought of voluntarily abandoning a Raised Corpse, but if you do this the card will go to the discard pile. I would also say that the Raised Corpses go to the discard pile if the Ghoul is turned into a Toad.

An interesting follow-up question is:

Q: Can Ghoul's Raised Corpses (and Minstrel's charmed Animal) be Mesmerized or taken by the Sorceress as normal Followers? If answer is yes, what happens?

It might be possible to do this now, since all other "Events that act as Followers" have become real Followers. If Ghoul's Corpses & Minstrel's charmed Animal might be taken, I don't think that other Character's can use them as if they were Ghoul or Minstrel, but should treat them as if Ghoul or Minstrel have been toaded (or killed). Corpses go to discard pile and Animal reverts to be an Enemy.

But I've read in this thread new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp that the Black Unicorn returns to be an Enemy Spirit if lost by a Character. The Unicorn has definitely been defeated in psychic combat... so I'm dubious now. Should lost Corpses become Enemies again?

The_Warlock said:

I think the same.

Ghoul's corpses go to the discard pile if you want to ditch it or someone use mesmerized and Minstrel animal followers will become animal again..

It would be a bit weird if a death corps can make it on his own...

And I think otherwise, if we should make a rule about that.

Whenever we're ditching an Enemy at the space, it became a normal Enemy. Whenever we're trying to mesmerize an Enemy-Follower it is put to the discard pile.

But like I said early, I'm playing that Enemy-Follower always is going to the discard pile, whenever link between it and character who made him a Folloower has been broken.

Nemomon said:

I also play in this fashion: diched/dropped/mesmerized Enemy Followers go to the discard pile if they have been previously defeated, otherwise they return Enemies on the board.

talismanamsilat's response in that thread made me think. Perhaps I'm wrong. If the (previously defeated) Black Unicorn returns to be an Enemy Spirit, it doesn't follow my distinction and procedure.

I hope Elliott will come back to us and sort the matter.

I read the solution Elliott wrote and... "?"

At Staff of Mastery isn't written, that we put an Enemy at it, so when we somehow lost the Staff, enemy inside of it is free, then we can force another Friend to be with us. Really, weird case...

Personally, I would go this route: Ghoul followers can be stolen. The Ghouls animated friends are basically constructs in my opinion and can be taken. If I construct a sword, that can be taken as an object (please, no emails from the National Association for the Advancement of Reanimated People concerning Zombies being people with rights too). The Sorceress' powers seem to be focused more on human manipulation and I would allow her to steal humanoid followers, but maybe not animals (depends if you read her power as more psychic or magical versus sexy in revealing clothing). As always, everyone can make their house rules and everyone is right at their own table.

For the Staff of Mastery, we feel that if the Staff is used to enslave, then it alone is the controlling power, not the character using it. If the Staff is lost or broken in our games, we allow the creature enslaved to reattack the character instantly. If it survives, it remains on the board where the character is standing. Sweet revenge.

mmmm I vote for it to become a normal enemy again if you get toaded and he is "free" (you resurrected him!) but no sure about mesmerize, depend if spells check the types on card, because while resurrected enemies are "follower" for the ghoul they dont have the "follower" word on them.

I have another thought about Mesmerism and what Elliott said about Unicorn and other Followers. Mesmerism can be cast only at the begonning of the turn. We can cast it at the Enemy-Follower, but since we cannot keep them, we must put them at the space we're currently in, then we're rolling the die for a movement.

Nemomon said:

I thought that had already been ruled on that you can't cast Mesmerism/use Sorceress's power against Minstrel's Animal Followers, they don't have the Follower keyword.

www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/298654

Dam said:

Weird, i thought i have read something else here on this forum...

But if Jon New says that you cannot mesmerism minstrels followers....

Then you cannot mesmerism ghoul followers too.

Then one question is left..

If a minstrel ditch the animal follower, it will become a enemie again, but if a Ghoul ditch a resurected follower then........

i am waiting for the answer

Dam said:

So they keep the old FAQ that you cannot take these Followers since they're not real Followers (no Follower keyword printed on card). This implies you can't sacrifice these so-called Followers in Vampire's Tower and you can't lose them in the Chasm. This implies that also the Black Unicorn cannot be taken with Mesmerism since it's an Enemy Spirit, not a Follower.

I don't want to over-complicate things, but I don't like contradictions or partial applications of a rule. If a charmed Lion is taken as a Follower, the Black Unicorn is exactly the same. Shouldn't it become the exact copy of the Unicorn?

The_Warlock said:

Black unicorn is different. If you ditch the Black unicorn, then a other player can defeat it and take it as a follower.

If a minstrell ditch his followers, a other player must fight it and keep it as a trophie.

But what you said is true.You could say that you may not sacrifice those followers because they are no real followers...

I see no problem with this rule, but it is good if it is clarified on this forum too

Velhart said:

I also said that since Black Unicorn is taken as a Follower, it cannot be sacrificed, lost in the Chasm, Mesmerised or taken by the Sorceress. Is this correct? For me it's wrong, because I see the defeated Black Unicorn as an exact copy of the Unicorn. It shouldn't revert being an Enemy Spirit on the board, because it has already been defeated. An Enemy is never defeated twice in a game of Talisman.

I never liked the concept of "take as a Follower"; if it's not to be considered a real Follower, the keyword should be removed for clarity's sake!

The_Warlock said:

/me too. Or at least changd to something different.

All we can do is wait until Elliot or Jon says something about this.

And then we must accept the outcome or make a house rule for it, if you don't like it

But remember... If Jon already says that you can't mesmerize a enemy follower from a minstrell because it's not a real follower, then i think this will aply also for resurected enemies or the Black Unicorn...

I am still waiting for a answer.

1 can mesmerized be use on enemy followers( i thought this question was already answered so that you must ditch it on the space..(But Jon says something else..)

2 are they considered as real followers ( black unicorn, ghoul minions, animal followers etc)

3 can you lost them in the chasm, vampire tower etc

4 If a ghoul ditch his minion, does it become a enemie again same as minstrell or does it go to the discard pile because it's death and only under the controll of the ghoul?

I am still waiting for elliot to clariffied this...

Enemy and Animal Followers cannot be mesmerised unless the person who casts the spell is able to actually take them as Followers.

If a resurrected Enemy is discarded/lost it reverts to being an Enemy as it has already been resurrected and is no longer "dead".

You can lose them as "normal" Followers. To all intents and purposes they are Followers.

talismanisland said:

Thanks Jon