Well, ladies and gents, the title says it all. What methods are the best to use to teach people the basics of squad building? I have a small gaming group, and while most seem to have picked it up intuitively, there are a couple that haven't gotten it yet. It doesn't help that I am the only person that actually owns any X-wing stuff, so squad building falls to me most of the time. Any thoughts?

What seems to be the trouble? What aren't they getting? The whole process seems pretty straight forward.

What seems to be the trouble? What aren't they getting? The whole process seems pretty straight forward.

It's not easy to describe…it seems that while he understands the core mechanics of the game, he doesn't really get how to choose what upgrades/etc to use on each ship to maximize their effectiveness. He doesn't seem to get synergy and the "whys" behind squad building.

Does he have any experience with deck building games such as Dominion or Magic? Because the principles are the same.

Or let him pick one ship and fill it with upgrades to his heart's content, then together flesh out the rest of the squadron, cutting in his original ship when needed, explaining why.

Does he have any experience with deck building games such as Dominion or Magic? Because the principles are the same.

No, this is his first deck building game

Or let him pick one ship and fill it with upgrades to his heart's content, then together flesh out the rest of the squadron, cutting in his original ship when needed, explaining why.

I like this idea, I might try that out. Thanks!

Give him a couple examples of why some are better than others. For example, look at Soontir's ability. The best way to take advantage of it is gaining stress tokens, especially since he gets rid of stress so easily, so tell him to look for upgrades he can take that give stress tokens. If he picks PtL, give him due credit.

One method we used to use with Warhammer was let people play what they want in a legal list but very basic models. As the game goes on you ask questions like "didn't you wish you could do this?," or, "you could of done X with this upgrade card." Get them to write it down during the game so they don't. Then slowly start adding in the other variables.

You could also start the other way and give him a pre-set proven combo like the Three Amigoes (Biggs, Wedge, Luke). After a few games let them switch out one or two upgrades so they can clearly see how changing up a card changes up the play. At some point something should click.

So the issue isn't that he doesn't understand how to build a squad, it is that he doesn't understand how to build a good squad? What makes one combination of cards perform better than another?

If that is the case, I think I would layout an example using advanced proton torpedoes (because it is really obvious with APTs). Go step by step to demonstrate how much more effective APTs become when you have both a TL and a focus, but you can't normally get both at the same time. Then show how there are several options for doing so, Garven or Dutch, PTL, moldy crow. If he then groks how one card can make a second one better, explain that APT are a really obvious one, but there are more subtle combinations that do the same thing to a greater or lesser extent, and walk him through one of those as well.

Another really dramatic combo to show him would be Kyle and the Crow with Garven, especially if he understands that focus tokens are very good. Just step through, Kyle focuses, then passes a token to Garven, who then spends it, passing it back to Kyle in the process, and Kyle keeps the token till next turn, allowing him to build up quite a stockpile of tokens.

Those are the two clearest examples of synergy and force multiplication I can think of in the game, and should serve to illustrate the concept of synergy.

stick to ships without upgrades or only 1-3 upgrades to fill points if needed for getting to know the basics

having to learn what many different things are doing at the same time is very confusing for most people

i'd stick to 1-2 named pilots and mostly basic pilots to get the best out of squad building for beginners

What makes any given ship or upgrade good is pure and simple: economy. Get the most for the least. It sounds like the problem here is that your friend doesn't understand the core mechanics of the game. Why is it better to roll more dice? Why is it good to modify those dice? Why is it good to deny both of those to your opponent? Why is a higher PS better? You cannot understand why an upgrade is good until you understand what that upgrade is actually providing you.

Yeah, we really need more information as to what the specific problem is (as demonstrated by the fact that virtually every response so far has been to a different problem. "Squad Building" is just too nebulous a term.

Does he not understand the concept of using points to make balanced, but variable sides?

Does he not understand what makes some cards good and others bad?

Does he not understand synergy between cards and why it works?

Does he not understand things like focusing fire?

Does he not understand how different ships have different capabilities and so are flown differently?

Getting to learn how to build a squadron is easy. What is harder, and the more important thing, is getting to know each and every pilots and upgrades. If you don't really know them, you can't really know what is best for each. So, to make a good squadron, a player must first study the game a little.

I have a similar problem. I'm also the one lending the ships in my group. I let my friends build their squadron and take all the time they need before the game. They are smart and figure some decent team, but since they don't know each and every card, they miss on some good combos. They also makes some mistakes like going too elite. The game has a great balance, so it all works out in the end. But after the game, I tell them some change they could make to improve their squadron. After seeing it in action, it's easier to get what went wrong and why. Also, I try to always play something different to show them a lot of possibilities. It's after seeing me play with Lorrir that a friend of mine fell in love with him and now plays him most of the time. He didn't really see what he could do on paper.

So, if your friends are willing to take the time, show them a good squadron builder program on the net and let them learn about the game. I'm sure they are smart enough to make some without any real tips. But if they don't really know all the upgrades and still need to look at the cards to know they exist, the help you can give them is limited. Trial and error, explain them why after the game. When you reveal your team, explain them how it works and why you took which upgrade on which ship.

Yeah, we really need more information as to what the specific problem is (as demonstrated by the fact that virtually every response so far has been to a different problem. "Squad Building" is just too nebulous a term.

Does he not understand the concept of using points to make balanced, but variable sides?

Does he not understand what makes some cards good and others bad?

Does he not understand synergy between cards and why it works?

Does he not understand things like focusing fire?

Does he not understand how different ships have different capabilities and so are flown differently?

A combination of 1, 3, and (sometimes) 5. I think I have some ideas. I am going to "test" him next weekend and see what exactly the problem is.

The main problem could simply be his vocabulary. Cant make good combos if you don't know half the cards.

Hello,

You can use squad builder, it will help you to have access to all cards, you can integrate existing builds and tweak them in order to create your.

One limitation is also what you own.

My builder allows you to restrict the creation to what you own, but you can also check the "Free" checkbox on the fly in order to free everything.

Home page : http://fabpsb.free.fr/

Golden mode : http://fabpsb.free.fr/gindex.php

There are also other builders, like the voidstate one.

bye

Hello,

You can use squad builder, it will help you to have access to all cards, you can integrate existing builds and tweak them in order to create your.

One limitation is also what you own.

My builder allows you to restrict the creation to what you own, but you can also check the "Free" checkbox on the fly in order to free everything.

Home page : http://fabpsb.free.fr/

Golden mode : http://fabpsb.free.fr/gindex.php

There are also other builders, like the voidstate one.

bye

Ya. I love your squad builder and use it all the time. I will have to show it to him.

The main problem could simply be his vocabulary. Cant make good combos if you don't know half the cards.

Exactly what I meant. When this game came out we had what?

About 10-13 pilots each side including generic.

5 EPT

2 missiles and 1 torpedo

1 turret

6 astromech

Now, including the transport:

Around 30 pilots

14 EPT

4 missiles and 3 torpedoes

2 turret

9 astromech

6 Modifications and 5 titles

3 cannons

3 System Upgrade

3 bombs

11 Crew

No wonder someone can get loss when building a squadron.

Around 30 pilots

Make that about 60 pilots these days.

Around 30 pilots

Make that about 60 pilots these days.

I meant 30 pilots each side but yeah, you also need to learn about the opponent pilots to know how to counter them.

I have found that often times it isn't that the person in quesion is unable to figure combinations out, but rather they don't actually know all the cards/units and what they do. This doesn't necessarily just pertain to X-Wing. Many of my Warhammer friends are the same way. There can be too many choices where obvious combinations may not actually be that obvious but more like overwhelming. This can really be hard on those that learn best by instructions based on a gradual or step method.

Synergy will eventually come with more playing various build types and situational tactics. What I suggest would be to have your friend select the type of ship(s) he would like to play and then have the type of upgrades shown to him, face up and seperated in their own groups, that work ONLY for those ships. The more unnessesary items there are, the more confusion and overwhelming can seep in. Stick with LOW point games until he finds a build that works well with his playstyle and then build-up to 100 or whatever your group plays most often.

Another suggestion would be to see what type of list he wants to make.. perhaps he is an agressive player? Maybe he is more reactive? Perhaps he likes a list that would be forgiving? Whichever his perferred playstyle will be, YOU let him know which ships would be better for that type of playstyle and more importantly, the "why" of it. Usually with players that rely on a gradual or step learning method can grasp things quicker if they are given choices that are already dwindled down for them or already grouped according to what they may be looking for. It's the same reason that these same people take forever when choosing their order at a fast-food restaurant - way too many choices it's confusing due to overwhelming them.

- Lord Cedric

Having trouble grasping concepts in this game? Start your friend out with Ties. You could link endless netlists to him and force feed him concepts he might not be ready for to little or no effect if he doesn't realize that the first rule in this game is positioning. The biggest advantage you can have in this game (beside being able to regen shields every turn) is bieng able to outfly your opponent. Get shots on him while, denying shots on you.

Have him fly Ties, lots of them, named ones too. They all die if you do something foolish with them, but having several makes up for that. Once he gets a taste of what Backstabber or Mauler can do at R1 with Howlie on his wing, he'll come over to the dark side where he belongs.

It doesn't help that I am the only person that actually owns any X-wing stuff, so squad building falls to me most of the time. Any thoughts?

There's your problem right there. Until your friends get their own copy of the game, it's hard for them to study the cards and the interaction between them. If they're aren't keen to invest in the game, then you're going to be stuck with building their squads.

I've introduced a few players and had to create squads, but after the first game we swap squads so they can see how the pilots/upgrades work from the other side.

What seems to be the trouble? What aren't they getting? The whole process seems pretty straight forward.

It's not easy to describe…it seems that while he understands the core mechanics of the game, he doesn't really get how to choose what upgrades/etc to use on each ship to maximize their effectiveness. He doesn't seem to get synergy and the "whys" behind squad building.

What if that's not what they get out of the game?

It doesn't help that I am the only person that actually owns any X-wing stuff, so squad building falls to me most of the time. Any thoughts?

There's your problem right there. Until your friends get their own copy of the game, it's hard for them to study the cards and the interaction between them. If they're aren't keen to invest in the game, then you're going to be stuck with building their squads.

I've introduced a few players and had to create squads, but after the first game we swap squads so they can see how the pilots/upgrades work from the other side.

Yeah, I agree completely. The person in question had some severe monetary issues when I first got him hooked. Now that that is finally over, he is wanting to buy into the game and I think I am going to start seeing some progress.

Getting started building a list is not all that complicated.

First you decide what type of squadron you want to build.

This could be 'modified' by real life like 'availability' if needs be.

Then decide what the 'must haves' in your list are. (could be cool, could be power, could be anything; you decide)

Then round out the list. (only 100 pts mostly so odds are your musthaves ate a lot of points)

Example:

I decide I want to play a game with a Tie-Swarm. (defined in my book as 6 or more)

My 'must haves' are the following:

-Howlrunner (to actually make a swarm 'work' and the feminist committee insisted)

-Backstabber (who does not love that name? besides his mother that is?)

-Black Squadron pilot with draw their fire to keep Howlrunner alive for that bit longer hopefully.

This eats up 18+16+14+1 points for a grand total of 49 points, a tad under half of my allotted 100.

For the remaining 51 points I could fit in a maximum of 4 tie fighters (4x12=48 points) leaving me a humble 3 for upgrades.

For the three points I could get Howlrunner an extra hull point, I could upgrade an academy pilot to Night Beast or perhaps even another BS with DTF. And then another million or so options. (or more)

This is just an example of my thought process of how I went at my first ever Tie Swarm build.

Fly casual.