Are we there yet?............

See Post #97.

I think the most important thing to consider is the EU can for the most part be considered part of canon until such a time as the movies, TV shows, comics or books that are forthcoming without the Legends tagline invalidate it.

So is the Millennium Falcon a heavily modified YT-1300, until we hear otherwise sure. Does the Chiss Ascendancy exist in the Unknown Regions, last I heard yup. Did the ISD juggling Starkiller help found the Rebel Alliance as some twisted plot of the Emperor, now that's just crazy talk since no one at Lucasfilm likes that bit of EU.

I seriously doubt that they won't reuse the class names and model numbers fro the ship models which are canon.

So... What you're saying is that the state of the Extended Universe simultaneously exists as both Canon and Non-Canon until such time that it is observed?

Is that a complicated form of Peekaboo?.............

A perfect example is how they treated Mandoloreans in The Clone Wars. They were previously this ultra awesome warrior race that could squash the Sith and the Jedi (at the same time) on a whim, but for some reason decided not to involve themselves with the separatists or the republic. (This example is only from hearsay so perhaps I am wrong)

Now they are a proud people who struggled to move beyond a militaristic past and were caught between an internal struggle with traditionalist extremists, and an attempt to remain neutral in the war. In the end the extremists won and the planet was pushed to the brink. Where they fell is currently unknown.

Can someone give better details on the differences than me?

So... What you're saying is that the state of the Extended Universe simultaneously exists as both Canon and Non-Canon until such time that it is observed?

Is that a complicated form of Peekaboo?.............

Schrodinger's peek-a-boo.

EDIT: and no, that isn't a band (yet) - I googled

A perfect example is how they treated Mandoloreans in The Clone Wars. They were previously this ultra awesome warrior race that could squash the Sith and the Jedi (at the same time) on a whim, but for some reason decided not to involve themselves with the separatists or the republic. (This example is only from hearsay so perhaps I am wrong)

Now they are a proud people who struggled to move beyond a militaristic past and were caught between an internal struggle with traditionalist extremists, and an attempt to remain neutral in the war. In the end the extremists won and the planet was pushed to the brink. Where they fell is currently unknown.

Can someone give better details on the differences than me?

I think this is a pretty good example actually.

George (who is still a "creative consultant") walks in... says "I want these to be like this" and it is so. Even if piles of EU already say otherwise.

With a little luck we might be in for a Golden Age of Star Wars. George has the ability to give input and keep things in line with his concept and vision, while still being detached enough for the actual director to be able to say "Yeeeaaaahh.... this Jar-Jar guy.... we're ummm... we're gonna have to clean that up a bit before we're ready to release"

Okay, about George and Jar-Jar...

First, probably the most brilliant thing that Lucas does is throw these ideas out there and forces his team to deal with it. He's like a saboteur where the fixed product is better as a result. Now sometimes, like when he's fully in charge of the execution (as in the PT), he doesn't get that dynamic going strongly enough. I didn't mind Jar-Jar in the PT, but I get how others might have. Jar-Jar never lived up to his potential.

But in the right hands, Jar-Jar is suddenly useful and hilarious. TCW season 4 Shadow Warrior, for example. Or the latest season 6 episodes with him and Mace. These wouldn't even have worked if Jar-Jar hadn't previously been established as an annoying git, frustrating to work with for the other internal characters.

And so you see, my young Padawans, even the most evil being can be redeemed and turned to the light...

Okay, about George and Jar-Jar...

First, probably the most brilliant thing that Lucas does is throw these ideas out there and forces his team to deal with it. He's like a saboteur where the fixed product is better as a result. Now sometimes, like when he's fully in charge of the execution (as in the PT), he doesn't get that dynamic going strongly enough. I didn't mind Jar-Jar in the PT, but I get how others might have. Jar-Jar never lived up to his potential.

But in the right hands, Jar-Jar is suddenly useful and hilarious. TCW season 4 Shadow Warrior, for example. Or the latest season 6 episodes with him and Mace. These wouldn't even have worked if Jar-Jar hadn't previously been established as an annoying git, frustrating to work with for the other internal characters.

And so you see, my young Padawans, even the most evil being can be redeemed and turned to the light...

This is kinda what I meant actually... In the right hands and story Jar Jar can be funny... but in TPM Jar-jar felt like an add on party character from a D&D campaign that showed up one day and just never left the party even though he really didn't have anything to do anymore.

My favorite Jar-Jar scene is one you've probably never seen though... I was at a graphics and art Con and ILM sent a panel team. They were talking (poorly, seriously they were awful public speakers, Sony's Spiderman FX team wiped the floor with them) about the challenges of the cloth simulation on digital characters, and they showed some early renders of (then recently released) AotC. The first few were of Yoda's robes inflating like a car airbag every time he moved.

But the best... the best... Jar-Jar, early in the film, Obi and Anakin arrive at Padme's apartment, and Jar Jar runs up and hugs Obi-wan...and Jar Jars clothes just fall off and crumple to the floor, leaving a nude Jar Jar hugging Obi-wan.... Brilliant!

A perfect example is how they treated Mandoloreans in The Clone Wars. They were previously this ultra awesome warrior race that could squash the Sith and the Jedi (at the same time) on a whim, but for some reason decided not to involve themselves with the separatists or the republic. (This example is only from hearsay so perhaps I am wrong)

Now they are a proud people who struggled to move beyond a militaristic past and were caught between an internal struggle with traditionalist extremists, and an attempt to remain neutral in the war. In the end the extremists won and the planet was pushed to the brink. Where they fell is currently unknown.

Can someone give better details on the differences than me?

This is meant to be an example of how canon changes EU? If so, it's a good example.

Some details are off according to what I know, but still if you're showing the how canon has changed EU it's a good example. I've never read about Mandalorians being able to squash Sith and Jedi on a whim, just that they tend to be better against Jedi than most. If I remember correctly the EU said that after the last Sith/Jedi War prior to the Republic Era stuff, Mandalore was razed and left barren, this left the Mandalorians in a diaspora. Between this period and the Clone Wars there was a civil war fought between the True Mandalorians and the Death Watch (founded by Tor Viszla. Eventually this civil war would get the Jedi involved and Dooku pretty much kills off the True Mandalorians.

The Clone Wars changed this by making the Mandalorians recent converts to pacifism due to the charismatic Satine Kryze and left the planet Mandalore intact. But in many ways the civil war that Pre Vizsla and his version of the Death Watch kick off has many of the same aspects of the one Tor Vizsla started. This is why I don't see the Clone Wars as having destroyed the Mandalorian EU fiction. It altered it, but it also incorporated some of it. This is how I imagine this announcement will handle much of the EU aside from big stories involving the Skywalkers, I think most of it will resemble the EU we know.

In the EU the Empire takes over Mandalore sometime after the the disbandment of the Republic and tries to mine it for the beskar ore, the Mandalorians eventually revolt. We'll have to see if this remains intact or not. Given that one of the characters in the new Rebels show is a Mandalorian I have a feeling we'll get some answers to this question. She seems anti-empire, so it might be very likely that Mandalore is under Imperial occupation.

All these interpretations are great, but it isn't what has been stated. It's simple: if it isn't addressed in the movies or TCW, it's non-canon.

The loophole I point out uses the Millennium Falcon. The Millennium Falcon definitely exists, but it's model number hasn't been stated, so it being a YT-1300 falls in a gray area. Do I think they'll re-introduce it? Of course, but right now it's technically non-canon.

Also, oh no! ...whatever shall we call, like, Ithorians for example, until then? Or maybe Bith? Because I can't seem to recall at the moment ever having heard them actually be identified as a species aloud in any movies or series... Woe is them. Woe be unto them. Poor "whatever Ithorians/Bith really are until such time as the new EU names them again". Poor them. I guess I will just call them Legends Ithorians and Legands Bith until the new movies or books tell me otherwise. What else are we to do? I feel so hamstrung!!!

All these interpretations are great, but it isn't what has been stated. It's simple: if it isn't addressed in the movies or TCW, it's non-canon.

The loophole I point out uses the Millennium Falcon. The Millennium Falcon definitely exists, but it's model number hasn't been stated, so it being a YT-1300 falls in a gray area. Do I think they'll re-introduce it? Of course, but right now it's technically non-canon.

Here's the official press release from Lucasfilm.

Please support your claim.

The closest I see is:

In order to give maximum creative freedom to the filmmakers and also preserve an element of surprise and discovery for the audience, Star Wars Episodes VII-IX will not tell the same story told in the post-Return of the Jedi Expanded Universe. While the universe that readers knew is changing, it is not being discarded

Which doesn't say they are ditching every element of the EU, just that they aren't making "The Black Fleet Crisis: The Movie" Which is to be expected.

I get that even in 2014 Yellow Journalism is alive and well, but you gotta learn to read more then the headline, or you'll end up looking like Chicken Little.

All these interpretations are great, but it isn't what has been stated. It's simple: if it isn't addressed in the movies or TCW, it's non-canon.

The loophole I point out uses the Millennium Falcon. The Millennium Falcon definitely exists, but it's model number hasn't been stated, so it being a YT-1300 falls in a gray area. Do I think they'll re-introduce it? Of course, but right now it's technically non-canon.

Here's the official press release from Lucasfilm.

Please support your claim.

The closest I see is:

In order to give maximum creative freedom to the filmmakers and also preserve an element of surprise and discovery for the audience, Star Wars Episodes VII-IX will not tell the same story told in the post-Return of the Jedi Expanded Universe. While the universe that readers knew is changing, it is not being discarded

Which doesn't say they are ditching every element of the EU, just that they aren't making "The Black Fleet Crisis: The Movie" Which is to be expected.

I get that even in 2014 Yellow Journalism is alive and well, but you gotta learn to read more then the headline, or you'll end up looking like Chicken Little.

While Lucasfilm always strived to keep the stories created for the EU consistent with our film and television content as well as internally consistent, Lucas always made it clear that he was not beholden to the EU. He set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align.

Now, with an exciting future filled with new cinematic installments of Star Wars, all aspects of Star Wars storytelling moving forward will be connected.

On the screen, the first new canon to appear will be Star Wars Rebels.

This does not support you're point at all.

This is meant to be an example of how canon changes EU? If so, it's a good example.

Some details are off according to what I know, but still if you're showing the how canon has changed EU it's a good example. I've never read about Mandalorians being able to squash Sith and Jedi on a whim, just that they tend to be better against Jedi than most. If I remember correctly the EU said that after the last Sith/Jedi War prior to the Republic Era stuff, Mandalore was razed and left barren, this left the Mandalorians in a diaspora. Between this period and the Clone Wars there was a civil war fought between the True Mandalorians and the Death Watch (founded by Tor Viszla. Eventually this civil war would get the Jedi involved and Dooku pretty much kills off the True Mandalorians.

The Clone Wars changed this by making the Mandalorians recent converts to pacifism due to the charismatic Satine Kryze and left the planet Mandalore intact. But in many ways the civil war that Pre Vizsla and his version of the Death Watch kick off has many of the same aspects of the one Tor Vizsla started. This is why I don't see the Clone Wars as having destroyed the Mandalorian EU fiction. It altered it, but it also incorporated some of it. This is how I imagine this announcement will handle much of the EU aside from big stories involving the Skywalkers, I think most of it will resemble the EU we know.

In the EU the Empire takes over Mandalore sometime after the the disbandment of the Republic and tries to mine it for the beskar ore, the Mandalorians eventually revolt. We'll have to see if this remains intact or not. Given that one of the characters in the new Rebels show is a Mandalorian I have a feeling we'll get some answers to this question. She seems anti-empire, so it might be very likely that Mandalore is under Imperial occupation.

Thanks for the better details than I was able to dredge up. I have not read any of the previous books but was simply remembering what a friend told me. I must have remembered it wrong or he was not sure of his story when he told me.

This is meant to be an example of how canon changes EU? If so, it's a good example.

Some details are off according to what I know, but still if you're showing the how canon has changed EU it's a good example. I've never read about Mandalorians being able to squash Sith and Jedi on a whim, just that they tend to be better against Jedi than most. If I remember correctly the EU said that after the last Sith/Jedi War prior to the Republic Era stuff, Mandalore was razed and left barren, this left the Mandalorians in a diaspora. Between this period and the Clone Wars there was a civil war fought between the True Mandalorians and the Death Watch (founded by Tor Viszla. Eventually this civil war would get the Jedi involved and Dooku pretty much kills off the True Mandalorians.

The Clone Wars changed this by making the Mandalorians recent converts to pacifism due to the charismatic Satine Kryze and left the planet Mandalore intact. But in many ways the civil war that Pre Vizsla and his version of the Death Watch kick off has many of the same aspects of the one Tor Vizsla started. This is why I don't see the Clone Wars as having destroyed the Mandalorian EU fiction. It altered it, but it also incorporated some of it. This is how I imagine this announcement will handle much of the EU aside from big stories involving the Skywalkers, I think most of it will resemble the EU we know.

In the EU the Empire takes over Mandalore sometime after the the disbandment of the Republic and tries to mine it for the beskar ore, the Mandalorians eventually revolt. We'll have to see if this remains intact or not. Given that one of the characters in the new Rebels show is a Mandalorian I have a feeling we'll get some answers to this question. She seems anti-empire, so it might be very likely that Mandalore is under Imperial occupation.

Thanks for the better details than I was able to dredge up. I have not read any of the previous books but was simply remembering what a friend told me. I must have remembered it wrong or he was not sure of his story when he told me.

I did my best from what I remember and could easily access, some of my history may be a bit off too. Plus there is the question of does the Clone Wars directly contradict things like Jango Open Season or not... but I think we'll all find that we all have our own sense of "canon" history and this announcement will only change that personal sense so much.

I feel like I've read the word "beholden" like a zillion times in the last couple days.

I get that even in 2014 Yellow Journalism is alive and well, but you gotta learn to read more then the headline, or you'll end up looking like Chicken Little.

Well that was a fun 10 minutes spent :-D thanks for the read.

A perfect example is how they treated Mandoloreans in The Clone Wars. They were previously this ultra awesome warrior race that could squash the Sith and the Jedi (at the same time) on a whim, but for some reason decided not to involve themselves with the separatists or the republic. (This example is only from hearsay so perhaps I am wrong)

Now they are a proud people who struggled to move beyond a militaristic past and were caught between an internal struggle with traditionalist extremists, and an attempt to remain neutral in the war. In the end the extremists won and the planet was pushed to the brink. Where they fell is currently unknown.

Can someone give better details on the differences than me?

This is meant to be an example of how canon changes EU? If so, it's a good example.

Some details are off according to what I know, but still if you're showing the how canon has changed EU it's a good example. I've never read about Mandalorians being able to squash Sith and Jedi on a whim, just that they tend to be better against Jedi than most. If I remember correctly the EU said that after the last Sith/Jedi War prior to the Republic Era stuff, Mandalore was razed and left barren, this left the Mandalorians in a diaspora. Between this period and the Clone Wars there was a civil war fought between the True Mandalorians and the Death Watch (founded by Tor Viszla. Eventually this civil war would get the Jedi involved and Dooku pretty much kills off the True Mandalorians.

Do you remember where was it said that Mandalore was razed in the Last Republic/Sith war? Because what I remember was that Mandalorian space was one of the few regions outside the Core to come through that war relatively intact but a couple of centuries later the Republic and Jedi invaded Mandalorian space because the Mandalorians were independent and refused to reduce their forces to fit within the limits the Republic imposed on Republic sector and local forces after the war. Mandalore was bombed during the invasion but not to the point of being abandoned AFAIK.

A perfect example is how they treated Mandoloreans in The Clone Wars. They were previously this ultra awesome warrior race that could squash the Sith and the Jedi (at the same time) on a whim, but for some reason decided not to involve themselves with the separatists or the republic. (This example is only from hearsay so perhaps I am wrong)

Now they are a proud people who struggled to move beyond a militaristic past and were caught between an internal struggle with traditionalist extremists, and an attempt to remain neutral in the war. In the end the extremists won and the planet was pushed to the brink. Where they fell is currently unknown.

Can someone give better details on the differences than me?

This is meant to be an example of how canon changes EU? If so, it's a good example.

Some details are off according to what I know, but still if you're showing the how canon has changed EU it's a good example. I've never read about Mandalorians being able to squash Sith and Jedi on a whim, just that they tend to be better against Jedi than most. If I remember correctly the EU said that after the last Sith/Jedi War prior to the Republic Era stuff, Mandalore was razed and left barren, this left the Mandalorians in a diaspora. Between this period and the Clone Wars there was a civil war fought between the True Mandalorians and the Death Watch (founded by Tor Viszla. Eventually this civil war would get the Jedi involved and Dooku pretty much kills off the True Mandalorians.

Do you remember where was it said that Mandalore was razed in the Last Republic/Sith war? Because what I remember was that Mandalorian space was one of the few regions outside the Core to come through that war relatively intact but a couple of centuries later the Republic and Jedi invaded Mandalorian space because the Mandalorians were independent and refused to reduce their forces to fit within the limits the Republic imposed on Republic sector and local forces after the war. Mandalore was bombed during the invasion but not to the point of being abandoned AFAIK.

You might have that right. I don't remember exactly how or why it was, but I remember that prior to the Clone War period Mandalore was supposed to have been left pretty badly damaged. Not abandoned, but to a point where many Mandalorians were in a sort of diaspora.

All these interpretations are great, but it isn't what has been stated. It's simple: if it isn't addressed in the movies or TCW, it's non-canon.

The loophole I point out uses the Millennium Falcon. The Millennium Falcon definitely exists, but it's model number hasn't been stated, so it being a YT-1300 falls in a gray area. Do I think they'll re-introduce it? Of course, but right now it's technically non-canon.

Here's the official press release from Lucasfilm.

Please support your claim.

The closest I see is:

In order to give maximum creative freedom to the filmmakers and also preserve an element of surprise and discovery for the audience, Star Wars Episodes VII-IX will not tell the same story told in the post-Return of the Jedi Expanded Universe. While the universe that readers knew is changing, it is not being discarded

Which doesn't say they are ditching every element of the EU, just that they aren't making "The Black Fleet Crisis: The Movie" Which is to be expected.

I get that even in 2014 Yellow Journalism is alive and well, but you gotta learn to read more then the headline, or you'll end up looking like Chicken Little.

While Lucasfilm always strived to keep the stories created for the EU consistent with our film and television content as well as internally consistent, Lucas always made it clear that he was not beholden to the EU. He set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align.

Now, with an exciting future filled with new cinematic installments of Star Wars, all aspects of Star Wars storytelling moving forward will be connected.

On the screen, the first new canon to appear will be Star Wars Rebels.

As Lord Zack notes, all this says is Lucas has final say, and everything from Rebels moving forward will match, and if there's a conflict (which there will be), the new stuff trumps the old.

But nothing in there says "If it's not in the movies it's non-canon."

A lot of the EUs lame plots, ludicrous super weapons, and Mary Sue's are probably dead, but the release specifically calls out that EU elements are still in play. Just don't expect episode VII to feature Jaxxon fighting the Vong...

A perfect example is how they treated Mandoloreans in The Clone Wars. They were previously this ultra awesome warrior race that could squash the Sith and the Jedi (at the same time) on a whim, but for some reason decided not to involve themselves with the separatists or the republic. (This example is only from hearsay so perhaps I am wrong)

Now they are a proud people who struggled to move beyond a militaristic past and were caught between an internal struggle with traditionalist extremists, and an attempt to remain neutral in the war. In the end the extremists won and the planet was pushed to the brink. Where they fell is currently unknown.

Can someone give better details on the differences than me?

This is meant to be an example of how canon changes EU? If so, it's a good example.

Some details are off according to what I know, but still if you're showing the how canon has changed EU it's a good example. I've never read about Mandalorians being able to squash Sith and Jedi on a whim, just that they tend to be better against Jedi than most. If I remember correctly the EU said that after the last Sith/Jedi War prior to the Republic Era stuff, Mandalore was razed and left barren, this left the Mandalorians in a diaspora. Between this period and the Clone Wars there was a civil war fought between the True Mandalorians and the Death Watch (founded by Tor Viszla. Eventually this civil war would get the Jedi involved and Dooku pretty much kills off the True Mandalorians.

Do you remember where was it said that Mandalore was razed in the Last Republic/Sith war? Because what I remember was that Mandalorian space was one of the few regions outside the Core to come through that war relatively intact but a couple of centuries later the Republic and Jedi invaded Mandalorian space because the Mandalorians were independent and refused to reduce their forces to fit within the limits the Republic imposed on Republic sector and local forces after the war. Mandalore was bombed during the invasion but not to the point of being abandoned AFAIK.

You might have that right. I don't remember exactly how or why it was, but I remember that prior to the Clone War period Mandalore was supposed to have been left pretty badly damaged. Not abandoned, but to a point where many Mandalorians were in a sort of diaspora.

Yeah the campaign which the Repulic launched involved bombardments of several Mandalorian worlds including Mandalore, and its mentioned that many of those worlds still bore scars from those bombardments evein the the Clone Wars and Galactic Civil War eras. I just misunderstood what you were saying and thought you meant the planet was abandoned, or uninhabitable afterwards.