I want to love it... I really, really do; but more than any other crew card this one repeatedly fails for me.

Either I hit initially, or I end up missing again on the rerolls.

So far for me it, on average, it activates twice per game on a fire spray and usually only changes the miss one time. Often times I have not been able to take a focus action when shooting, but one of the attractive qualities of Gunner is that it is passive and functions when you cannot focus, TL, or when you are forced to evade.

Is there a best way to use gunner?

Am I foolish for thinking it's pretty expensive for a crew slot that may not do anything?

Is it an auto-include for pricey ships that can take it?

I have had gunner (or Luke) used well against me, but I never have had it be an essential part of a win for me. It rarely even activates, or nets me much.

I read a lot of folks on these forums give this upgrade such high marks that I feel I must be missing (pun intended) something.

Think of gunner as insurance.

You pay for it, and may never actually need it, but when you do end up needing it you're glad you have it. The problem is as you say, you may go full games and never actually use it, because you manage at least one hit. Which means you really remember when you do get to use it and it doesn't actually help.

The value of a gunner depends on the targets.

If you are up against Y-Wings a gunner is a waste. Against interceptors he is good.

Yes.

This has been another edition of Short Answers to Simple Questions. Tune in next time…

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With less snark, the Gunner is really fairly effective. Basically, you can think of it as a stress-free Push the Limit that can be used on generic, low-PS ships: it boosts your attack in much the same way an extra action might, and gives you a reasonable chance of hurting ships you might otherwise not be able to meaningfully damage.

What makes it look a little less valuable now than it used to is that the metagame, particularly the Rebel metagame, has shifted toward ships with lower Agility, which means Gunner triggers less often. But even in the case where you're shooting at a Falcon or B-wing, bringing a Gunner along is insurance against flubbing your attack roll. It's a very good upgrade.

Beyond that it makes stripping your opponents tokens easier. Don't use your mods on the first attack. Try to make them use theirs.(This backfires when they only take one damage from the first attack though.)

I would say the Gunner is great on a YT, but not as good on a Firespray. Because Gunner only activates when you miss your first attack, it's more effective against high agility ships (which are mainly Imps). Just based on your post, I assume you mainly play Imperial in which case there are better crew cards (Vader, Rebel Captive) to take over Gunner.

Gunner helps if you can't use an action for offense and acts as insurance against bad rolls by you and good rolls by your target.

I like it best on Falcons and Firesprays. On the Shuttle or ORS it's not bad, but I usually like to keep those pretty cheap.

If you're only facing B-Wings, Y-Wings, Falcons, or Shuttles, it doesn't get used very often. But if you're firing at anything with higher agility it can be very useful. So, not an auto-include, but a strongly consider if you have room for it.

I find it's more useful on builds with fewer ships, particularly Falcons and Firesprays, as it is more essential to ensure you are getting some consistent damage from those high value ships, or when you plan on spending actions on maneuver-based abilities (Expert Handling, Engine Upgrade, etc.) and need to maintain offensive efficiency.

As someone who's been on the receiving end of Gunner, I've found myself electing to be hit for one rather than spend my tokens and risk being hit for two or three. That wookiee is vicious.

I've found myself electing to be hit for one rather than spend my tokens and risk being hit for two or three.

That's part of the insurance feel gunner has. People often will take that 1 hit on a 3HP ship just to avoid 2+ damage. It's a trade off that makes sense, but at the same time, it helps the gunner earn back those points.

As someone who's been on the receiving end of Gunner, I've found myself electing to be hit for one rather than spend my tokens and risk being hit for two or three. That wookiee is vicious.

And this now brings us to my new use for Gunner.

Kath + Ion Cannon + Gunner + Opportunist. Use your action to Target Lock.

You give your opponent a bunch of bad options:

1) eat a hit from the ion cannon

2) evade ion cannon fire (maybe gaining a stress from evading a crit) and eat more incoming fire from opportunist all the while having no tokens.

Its going to be really harsh vs Ties of all shapes and sizes.

Thanks for the advice so far on this subject. I appreciate the feedback and reasoning.

I find it's more useful on builds with fewer ships, particularly Falcons and Firesprays, as it is more essential to ensure you are getting some consistent damage from those high value ships, or when you plan on spending actions on maneuver-based abilities (Expert Handling, Engine Upgrade, etc.) and need to maintain offensive efficiency.

This made me realize that the question I should really be asking is: is the worth of gunner contextual to a list?

The fewer ships, fewer attack dice scenario makes sense to me.

Maybe it's not always worth it in lists that aren't lacking in red dice.

It has also served me very well after getting hit with a " Blinded Pilot" critical

Maybe it's not always worth it in lists that aren't lacking in red dice.

Yeah gunner isn't an auto include like some upgrades are. It's a big part of HSF, but then you're looking at a list of 3 ships, so you can't really afford to miss with Han.

The value of a gunner depends on the targets.

If you are up against Y-Wings a gunner is a waste. Against interceptors he is good.

This pretty much sums it up.

I could say it also depends a little on your attack dice but what you're shooting at makes a bigger difference. If you have a 1 die primary attack (HWK) then I don't know why you'd want to consider a Gunner; if your Turret misses but you happen to have a shot with your primary that 1 die isn't going to hit very often either. With a 2 die primary it gets better; you may miss more often which in turn triggers Gunner more often but you're still just rolling 2 dice. Strangely when you get to 3 dice is when things may get weird; your attack is less likely to miss but if it does your second attack is still likely to hit.

The "best case" situation for a Gunner is when you have a ship that can't afford to get hit and will spend resources to avoid it. Soontir Fel with Stealth Device is a prime example of this kind of target. If shot at by Han one really doesn't want the Interceptor to get hit because that will cause it to lose the Stealth Device; the problem is that if tokens are spent to avoid that hit (and maybe even Crit if Marksmanship was used) then the Gunner gets to shoot again with Soontir in a more vulnerable state. It is the ships that are hard to hit but which also can't take hits that Gunner is best against.

FYI Kath can't give stress if using the ion cannon. Ion cannon cancels all dice results if successful.

But opportunist and gunner seems like a decent combo. I used it in a 2 YT list once. I have since replaced it with different upgrades to make the 2 YT list more of a tank vs more damage output.

Gunner does seem a bit less useful than it once was. It's amazing in the right situation but when that situation isn't a factor in a match (too many low agility targets, etc) 5 points is pretty pricey for a thing you may never use

FYI Kath can't give stress if using the ion cannon. Ion cannon cancels all dice results if successful.

But opportunist and gunner seems like a decent combo. I used it in a 2 YT list once. I have since replaced it with different upgrades to make the 2 YT list more of a tank vs more damage output.

Actually this is incorrect. You roll your attack dice and modify said dice. Crits that result then need to be defended. Any hits/crits that are not defended are then negated, the defender receives 1 ion token and 1 damage.

So you can indeed stress a target and give him an ion token.

I was doing the math to sum up the usefulness of Gunner vs different abilities. I'll have to look up the results, but as I recall, the odds of a "good" outcome were not all that different, maybe 10% difference, if my math was correct. Ill look at it again. What Gunner DOES do for you is let you refill an all blanks roll, and it can force your opponent to really have to consider spending that focus or evade, which is a mind game of its own.

Gunner is really a staring game. Best case defending against the Gunner is a miss both attacks. Best case for Gunner is to have the defender spend focus on fist attack while not using his and getting all hits. If the the Gunner attacks and choses not to spend his focus on his first roll. you're unmodified defense lets one hit through But you have a focus to evad the whole attack, let it hit you as spending that focus could result in a harder hit on the second attack.

I think that, with Sensor Jammer and Flight Instructor slowly gaining ground, Gunner will end up being rediscovered.

I never undiscovered it.

On a firespray, it's awesome. It's cheaper than a heavy laser cannon and it works out of the auxiliary firing arc too.

I couldn't tell you the statistical likelyhood, but we had a 125 point tournament - I flew three bounty hunters with gunners and it felt like I was getting a 'free attack' at least once a turn. As noted, it's especially awesome for anyone reliant on tokens rather than dice for defence - the Falcon is a prime example.

Never mind.

Also don't forget the Buzzsaw shuttle! The gunner in combination with Weapons Engineer and Fire Control System is really nasty. You can take a Focus token, fire at ship 1, get a Target Lock on it AND another ship in your firing arc and if your attack on ship 1 missed you just can do it again but this time with a Target Lock and a Focus token or you open up on ship 2 using the 2nd Target Lock and the Focus. Perfect for stripping tokens away and also dishes out enough damage.

Ironically, while this thread has given me plenty of ideas on how best to use gunner; it has been instrumental in deciding that my current squad I'm working on didn't need it and I believe it is better off for using the cheaper Rebel Captive.

I like the idea of gunner being insurance in small(ish) fleets where your red dice have to count because you don't have many of them.