Hello. I'm very new to these forums, though I've played EotE for a few months now (though I know my GM has changed a few things about the core rules to make it more suitable for our party - he's a very good GM). I only recently decided to create an account because I was having an issue with one mechanic within the game.

I feel that the fact that races have prebuilt stats limits the specialization in character creation. I understand that EotE strives to be an accurate and "realistic" game, but this bothers me, and other players I know. For example, my first character I made is a Wookiee Bounty Hunter. I was tired of playing a support role or utility character, so I decided to make this Wookiee, Tarkazza, as bad ass as possible. He's intimidating, dangerous, resourceful, and most of all fearless. Where he downfalls (for balancing purposes) is pretty much anything other than combat. He can't fly a ship, he can't make a robot, roughly injecting a stimpack is the extent of his medical knowledge, and if you asked his party, he's not the most amicable person either. So you can understand Tarkazza is just the right character for the bad ass role I was looking for. However. Character pages do not just include the physical make up of a race, but also some mental aspects (Willpower and Presence, and partly Intellect). So every time my GM goes to roll the dice on a discipline check to see whether or not Tarkazza runs in fear when something attacks them, he's at a serious disadvantage because Wookiees have a Willpower of one. So no matter how fearless I want my Wookiee to be, he will always be a sissy according to the books.

Does anybody else run into this sort of issue where the race is perfect, but the stats limit how you want to roleplay? Please give me feedback that I can share with my GM to see if we can tweak things up a bit. Even if you're just telling me I need to deal with it and stop wanting my character to be overpowered, all input is appreciated.

For 90pts you can get Brawn 4, Willpower 3 and everything else at 2 or variations thereof to suit.

Alternatively, if you're in play already, pop points into Discipline and Cool to offset fear rolls, as you progress pick up the Dedication talent to improve whatever stat you want.

Fairly common pitfall with players making characters 'veterans' at the start of the game with complicated backstories that don't necessarily translate well to the production of a character. Sometimes its easier to make a new-guy kind of character fresh off the moisture farm that knows what they know and just does what they can.

That's what upping characteristics during character creation is for - a nice clean boost to everything related to the characteristic without dedicating experience to a specific skill, so you can get your species to how you want your specific character to play.

And beyond character creation, there's always dumping experience into a specific skill. Tired of your wookiee being scared? Dump experience into discipline - maybe he's not as powerful with beating people up, but now he's not going to suffer setbacks by being afraid of everything.

I feel your pain, man. There are plenty of people I know that would have a Brawn of 1, but all humans start out with 2. Just talk to your GM and see if you can come up with a compromise; the rules are pretty laid back.

If I were the GM and it was early in the campaign, I'd allow one free respec. Usually, it takes one or two sessions before characters are really set in stone, role-play-wise and I would prefer to be more lenient than strict if it meant the difference between a player having fun vs possibly suffering with character-generation regret.

But if you've been playing for months, that's a harder sell. You're probably stuck with a Willpower of 1 and that's just your character. Probably best to roll with it and have fun. Do you think Chewbacca had any higher of a Willpower in the movies? He thought with this stomach, acted impulsively, and actually really did act scared on occasion. It made him a memorable character.

But, if you don't want to continue playing a trigger happy scaredy-walking-carpet, you can always pump skill points into Discipline and maybe even Cool and you'll be passing those fear checks with regularity. Over time, you can spend your Dedication talents on increasing your Willpower to get yourself an extra yellow die on those checks.

But yeah... I know you probably didn't intend to have a "dump stat", as it were, but that's what you've got and you just gotta suck it up and play the hand you've been dealt. Willpower is an important stat and not something you want to take lightly as this game really rewards well-roundedness.

See if your GM will let you adjust Tarkazza's stats a bit. Like MKX and Lathrop suggest, it helps to focus your starting XP on raising the Characteristics that are most important to the character. You can always buy Talents and Skills up later on.

In many story-based games, a character is supposed to be a skilled veteran with plenty of life experience behind them, but the character-creation rules don't always allow this. In such cases, it is sometimes useful or needed to make the big purchases (again, Characteristics) at the expense of the little things (Talents and Skills). I once saved up XP for a dozen sessions just to give my character "what he needed".

Another thing you might want to consider is how you roleplay your character's fear. There is nothing in the book that says you run away when your character is afraid; not even on a despair.

How does Tarkazza react when he is going against the unknown or something truly terrifying like a Rancor?

Sure the rules say you get a setback die with each action, that's because Tarkazza faces his fear with recklessness, so he's not thinking clearly, which explains the Setback die. A despair just means he is facing the encounter with wild abandon, the lust of the kill and the prestige it would bring has incensed him.

Tarkazza rolled a lot of threat and now he's staggered and can't take an action next round? That's because he's too busy reading the Rancor's movements, waiting for the most opportune moment to strike. He may be recklessness, but he's not suicidal. (Take those moments to use the aim maneuver, or get closer. If Tarkazza was really afraid of it, why would me move closer?)

Because of the threat generated on the check, Tarkazza got on his check, he suffered 2 strain. I guess his Wookiee rage is starting to get to him.

In game, when one of my players fails a fear check, I always say "It looks like your character would find this thing scary. I'll let you decide how that translates."

I like to think of it like the dice are telling you how scary something is to the character, not how how scared the character is of the thing.

Two questions:

1) How often is your GM asking for Fear checks?

2) Why is your GM rolling the Fear checks, and how are they playing out?

In my experience and opinion, Fear checks should be relatively scarce and altogether situationally dependent. If your Wookiee is a veteran, there are probably several situations which are entirely familiar to him and should therefore not require a fear check, at least from him. It's the unknown/unfamiliar variables that most often call for fear checks.

*minor Firefly spoiler*

If you're into Firefly, check out episode 10 ("War Stories") for an example of how the fear check can effect a particular character but shouldn't be required of everyone. When the party raided Niska's compound, Simon and Kaylee would have both rolled fear checks since both were combat inexperienced and facing a very large opposing force. Being the fairly disciplined type, the doctor passes the check, but the mechanic fails.

Book, Zoe, Jayne, and River do not require fear checks since the first three are all capable combat veterans and River is just completely competent.

Alternately, Simon and Kaylee might have had to make very difficult fear checks, and the others might have had to pass more easy checks, even on down to Simple checks.

*End spoiler*

Point is, fear checks shouldn't be made anytime there is something attacking your character. It's really annoying (I say this coming from the table of a GM who required fear checks pretty much any time combat was initiated), and is certainly not within the parameters set out by the rulebook. Fear checks are meant to accompany exceptionally dire circumstances and should generally not occur more than once every other session (IMHO).

Also, the players should be the ones rolling the fear checks. Just sayin. Funny business if your GM is rolling skill checks for you.

You never said, but if you started your wookiee off at Brawn 5 then that's the source of the problem. 4 is plenty, allows more flexibility, and Dedication isn't that far away.

I guess my point was that I didn't like how I HAD to put experience into those skills in order to roleplay the way that I wanted to, and because I was a beginner I didn't know that it was going to be causing me problems. So now I'm way beyond character creation. Soon I will be getting my dedication, but I've mostly been dancing around the gadgeteer skill tree to pick up all the tank boosts (I can now survive a thermal detonator with no successes - according to the book, not my GM)

And no, Whafrog, I started my Wookiee off at four brawn.

And to awayputurwpn, he recently rolled them when we were attacked by a large black Nexu with cybernetic enhancements on it's claws as it pounced on us from behind. He also has rolled them for when we fight other Creatures or have opponents try to use coersion on us. He likes to make the excuse that we're used to killing storm troopers, not big game, so we can't use our character's bad ass-ery as an excuse to bypass fear checks. And when he rolls them he typically rolls them for us to pass since we are a very combat oriented group, but it does weigh heavily on our Willpower and Discipline (and with 5-10 exp per session from showing up and motivation it's hard to get points into that and still be advancing in combat)

Kaosoe, I really like what you said. My GM typically just makes us actually run away, so I'll talk to him about this.

The Fear rules are on page 298 of the core rule book, it would probably be good to review them. It's fine to ask for a fear check, but your GM isn't applying the results as per the rules. It sounds like you're running through the Beyond the Rim module, and that module does call for fear checks for several things (I won't spoil and say why), but running away isn't a rule-based result.

There are a lot of aspects to the game and it's tough sometimes to get everything the way you like, especially first time through. True of any game, really, but I think this game surprises people with how important the non-combat aspects are. Personally I'm pretty generous with refactoring if someone wants to redo their character, you might talk to your GM about how to reconfigure so that the stats more accurately reflect your character concept. If he doesn't let you, then invest-invest-invest in Discipline...by rank 4, and spending Dedication on Willpower, your Wookiee should be as fearless as you want.

he's a very good GM..... My GM typically just makes us actually run away...

These two points don't jive to me.

So no matter how fearless I want my Wookiee to be, he will always be a sissy according to the books.

Does anybody else run into this sort of issue where the race is perfect, but the stats limit how you want to roleplay?

In some ways, Rules Working As Intended. You could have put 20 Destiny into Willpower to roll GG instead of just G, and I don't know what Career/Spec you are so Discipline may not have been viable to start with, but picking up a single rank post chargen is only 10. So in that way I am not really sympathetic. Every character has holes in competency - it's the name of the game, unless you have a seriously high amount of bonus XP, in the hundreds, to play with after basic chargen.

Now that said, I think that Chewbacca actually models Willpower 1 pretty well, and is the main inspiration for the species.

Chewie...

1) Throws a hissy fit when R2 makes a successful move against him in dejarik chess (ANH)

2) Through exposition from Han, Wookiees pull peoples' arms from their sockets when they lose, implying they are really sore losers (ANH)

3) Growls and threatens Luke when Luke tries to put binders on him, after being told that being in handcuffs will be part of a plan to get a payoff (ANH)

4) Is afraid to get near the garbage compactor after they get out, and is visibly cowering in fear (ANH)

5) Grabs and chokes Lando even though Lando is the only person who can tell them where Han is (ESB)

6) Walks up and grabs a piece of meat on a stick that is very obviously planted there, ignoring the clear indicia that it is a trap (RotJ)

I'm sure there are scenes I'm forgetting but they paint a clear picture of low Willpower, aka emotional instead of rational, with little self-restraint when confronted with stimuli.

Kind of like anyone with a 1 Agility is a crummy dancer and someone with a 1 Intellect isn't the go to guy for hacking. If you build a character with a 1 in the stat governing Fear checks them's the breaks. No single race is all or nothing and everything all the time. Chewie was a big wussy at times. Besides fear isn't a bad thing in reality, makes us think and plan and avoid, which are good.

he's a very good GM..... My GM typically just makes us actually run away...

These two points don't jive to me.

Just to expand on this, I don't think a GM should be making a character do anything. I mean, if you want your character to bend over and moon Vader after failing and getting despairs on a fear check, then that's what your character does. How the GM handles the despair aspect of your character being bent over in a compromising position is up to him, and there are plenty of interesting options in the fear result chart that don't involve taking control of a character.

I think some of you may be missing my point. This post isn't about fear checks and how I think my character shouldn't have to deal with them, it's about how the rules limit role playing capabilities by giving stats for mental aspects based on race. I don't think a player should have to burn four sessions worth of experience to make his character act the way he wants it to. It is a role playing game after all.

And to the comments about my GM making us run away on fear check fails and therefor contradicting my earlier statement about him being a good GM: I talked to him and he said it was only due to the characters miraculously failing the checks with like one despair and two failures.

Also to those saying Wookiees are supposed to have low willpower based on how Chewbacca acts, who says all Wookiees act that way? What How a character acts does not depend on what race they are.

So no matter how fearless I want my Wookiee to be, he will always be a sissy according to the books.

Well, the obvious solution - at least in your case - spend your starting experience on raising your willpower from 1 to 4. That should get you in the neighborhood of where you want your Badassery to be.

Does anybody else run into this sort of issue where the race is perfect, but the stats limit how you want to roleplay? Please give me feedback that I can share with my GM to see if we can tweak things up a bit. Even if you're just telling me I need to deal with it and stop wanting my character to be overpowered, all input is appreciated.

On the other hand, going by the one wookiee example we have to work from, a willpower of 1 is just about right. Chewie is scared of the dianoga, tends to fly off the handle at the slightest provocation, and has impulse control issues (going after the meat in the obvious trap on Endor). Honestly, I think a low willpower is dead accurate.

I think some of you may be missing my point. This post isn't about fear checks and how I think my character shouldn't have to deal with them, it's about how the rules limit role playing capabilities by giving stats for mental aspects based on race. I don't think a player should have to burn four sessions worth of experience to make his character act the way he wants it to. It is a role playing game after all.

But fear checks (success or failure) do not "dictate how you act". At most, they may influence the ability to succeed or fail at other things due to the results. But you are still free to act as you see fit for your character. The rules seem quite clear to this point, AFAIC.

And to the comments about my GM making us run away on fear check fails and therefor contradicting my earlier statement about him being a good GM: I talked to him and he said it was only due to the characters miraculously failing the checks with like one despair and two failures.

You can fail a fear check against Darth Vader himself, suffering massive penalties to everything you do for the encounter because you are trembling in your boots and wetting yourself, and still decide to charge him with a broken twig if you want.

I don't get where belief otherwise is coming from.

Ccarlson101: if I want my character to be something, I shouldn't have to put points into a skill, I should just be able to role play my character as having that characteristic.

Another couple points that make it seem to me that your GM is being pretty unfair.

1) 5-10 XP per session is an incredibly low payout. I suppose if you're only playing for an hour or two it'd be reasonable, but still it's just really low. I can understand your reticence to spend XP on something like Discipline. You should be gaining anywhere from 15-25 XP per session if you're playing well to your Motivations, and perhaps even more if your GM is allowing you to make major milestones with your character.

2) Making you run away from threats after every Fear check is not cool. This is another point where the game breaks down for you. Under normal circumstances, Fear is only supposed to impose Black dice, difficulty increases, or strain, not make you run away (unless of course you exceed your Strain threshold!).

Both of these points are, as I see it, a big part of your problem and they are entirely on your GM. Talk to him, show him the rules and how the game is intended to work.

Heck, if you're not having fun, that's enough reason to go the GM and tell him. But since your not having fun coincides with the GM not following RAW/RAI, you've got a good lot to bring to his attention. But do this out of game, and not within earshot of the other players.

The others have had some good points, though. Sometimes even tough characters can be big sissies. Besides, the game isn't just about fighting. Sometimes your character might have a good reason for leaving a fight alone, or at least be able to sell that reason to the other PCs without coming across as a wuss

Ccarlson101: if I want my character to be something, I shouldn't have to put points into a skill, I should just be able to role play my character as having that characteristic.

I honestly cannot tell if this is sarcasm, or a really poorly put together point...

I think some of you may be missing my point. This post isn't about fear checks and how I think my character shouldn't have to deal with them, it's about how the rules limit role playing capabilities by giving stats for mental aspects based on race. I don't think a player should have to burn four sessions worth of experience to make his character act the way he wants it to. It is a role playing game after all.

I will agree with you that I don't necessarily agree the way the designers stat'd out certain races, but I'm not sure why mental characteristics should be handled differently from physical. I'm sure you were happy to your Wookiee had a Brawn starting point of 3, but there needs to be some balance. I sounds like you didn't think Discipline or Willpower would be a big deal in this game, and now you're finding out it is. Your GM should allow you to reconfigure a little to suit.

if I want my character to be something, I shouldn't have to put points into a skill, I should just be able to role play my character as having that characteristic.

I confess I'm confused by this. In D&D you can't pretend to be a sage advisor or really smart without having Wisdom or Intelligence. Why is Willpower any different?

I suspect what you mean is your GM is not letting you play your character the way you want, which I don't think is right of him to do, and you're confusing this with what the system allows. Like ccarlson101 said, you should be able to act the way you want, but that doesn't mean the GM can't apply a penalty to your actions because you failed a fear check. This would be true for *any* skill...you can't decide you're really great at hacking a computer in the driving rain even though you have an Intellect of 1 and no skills.

But maybe you mean something else?

Ccarlson101: if I want my character to be something, I shouldn't have to put points into a skill, I should just be able to role play my character as having that characteristic.

I dunno, man. You built the character, you've got to deal with the game-mechanical and roleplay consequences. What'd be like if I built a character with Intellect 1 and no knowledge skill ranks, yet I want to roleplay him as the leading expert on galactic history and bioscience?

Anyway, the Fear check deal is a moot point. As I said above, your GM shouldn't just use it as an excuse to make you run away from a fight when you fail (unless that Strain exceeds your Threshold).

Make you could give us some examples of the Difficulty he's been setting for the Fear checks?

Ccarlson101: if I want my character to be something, I shouldn't have to put points into a skill, I should just be able to role play my character as having that characteristic.

Sounds like you have a disconnect between game mechanics and character concept. Yes, you can write up a bad ass smuggler gunslinger gambler ladies man all you want. However you need to put points into piloting, blaster, gambling and charm to back that up. You just cant say "I'm playing Jackie Chan" right out of the gate and expect to be beating 20 people up with a ladder like a champ.

Ccarlson101: if I want my character to be something, I shouldn't have to put points into a skill, I should just be able to role play my character as having that characteristic.

Are you arguing against us or are you arguing against your GM?

You can role play your character however you want. Mechanically, whatever happens—from missing when firing your blaster because you have low Agility to becoming visibly shaken when a nexu pounces out of the darkness because of low Willpower—is a result of those numbers written down on your character sheet and how those influence the dice pools.

You can't role play your way back into success when the dice say you fail.

With that said, you should have a calm, civil, and rational conversation with your GM and with the other players on how fear checks are done and about when or if the GM should take character agency away from the player. Sometimes it's warranted (like in the case of mind-control, etc.) but usually the GM should ask the player to decide how the PC should react and then engage in a quick negotiation until everyone is satisfied. It's called "buy-in" and it's an important management technique to get others to agree to do something less favorable than they would otherwise agree to without having to enforce mandates.