What do you guys think about having FFG create a Flight Path System using capital ships? I suggest maybe putting an ISD on a large base (to scale) and use a regular small base for the CR-90 and similar corvette size ships. So you can have Home One on a large base and so forth. The fighters can still use the small base, but will be considered a fighter squadron. The attack and defense dice may have to be adjusted for having capital ships attacking/defending against fighters and vice versa. I know this will take the dogfight concept out of the game but I think it is a good way to introduce large ships and have fleet battles. I think it will be better than Attack Wing, especially if it is to scale and with the same detail as X-Wing.

I want it, but I think it should use unique bases and movement templates. Scale could be rough though. If you can hold an ISD then the corvettes will be really small.

Visually I would still prefer a game that tries to keep size in some perspective. So yes if they have Star Destroyers on a Huge base (double large as for the current Huge ships) that would look good. But I think it would look cooler if they had new tiny fighter models grouped together on a small base to represent a fighter squadron.

What do you guys think about having FFG create a Flight Path System using capital ships? I suggest maybe putting an ISD on a large base (to scale) and use a regular small base for the CR-90 and similar corvette size ships. So you can have Home One on a large base and so forth. The fighters can still use the small base, but will be considered a fighter squadron. The attack and defense dice may have to be adjusted for having capital ships attacking/defending against fighters and vice versa. I know this will take the dogfight concept out of the game but I think it is a good way to introduce large ships and have fleet battles. I think it will be better than Attack Wing, especially if it is to scale and with the same detail as X-Wing.

Honestly, I'm more likely to buy a $150 dollar Star Destroyer then invest that amount into another Miniatures game, even another good one. But I think all the people calling it's not to scale care more about their interpretation of things than the FFG designers interpretations, and given that FFG has proven themselves amazingly competent, even with my complaints about the game, I'd rather see their interpretation in this game than a whole new game. Scale is just not an issue I care about. The feel of playing something is. I can forgive a Star Destroyer being too small, and even underpowered compared to fanboy interpretations of their power. but I can't forgive a game that doesn't suddenly hinge around wiping that Destroyer off the map ASAP.

I absolutely think they need to do a capital ship scale game, but it needs to have some significant changes from X-Wing, it can't be just a reskin.

For starters, I think they need a couple more base sizes, a 60mm Medium size base (really surprised they didn't add this to X-Wing), a tiny base (20-25mm) to cover fighter squadrons and really small ships, and an xtra large base. They way they are handling huge ships in X-Wing works OK for things that there are only going to be a couple of in play, and that only occasionally, but for a standard play ship (like an ISD would be) they would need something less fiddly. With 5 base sizes that would give them (I think, anyway) enough of a possible size spread to cover ships from fighter squadrons up through ISDs in a reasonable manner.

Next, modify the flight path system. The way it works in X-Wing really (REALLY) feels like small ships dogfighting. You need a different feel for capital ships. My gut reaction would be to alter the movement templates to 30 and 60 degree turns ins tead of 45 and 90, and have them cover less distance, but whatever they do, it would require lots of playtesting to get the feel right.

Adapt the huge ship energy rules to make them easy enough to manage 4-10 ships a side without losing too much of the flavor and mechanical effect.

Combat and firing arcs would need to be completely reworked to more seamlessly handle multiple attacks per turn and multiple firing arcs on most ships.

So, yeah. All of that is what needs done, but all of that NEEDS done. Such a game would be so amazing.

(oh, yeah, and if you can integrate the 2 games in a meta way so that when 2 squadrons met and fought in the capital ship game you could, if you choose, resolve the dogfight with a game of X-Wing, that would be stupendously incredible)

I have been calling for a Cruiser (capital) Scale game forever. Truth be told I don't want ISD in the X-wing game. And it isn't even the 17 meter long scale issue. It is a power scale issue. ISD are just tooooooo powerful. And not really designed to fight fighter sized craft.

As for price even if it was only twice the length of the Tative it would probably be more that $150. Twice the length is 8 times as much plastic.

So, yeah. All of that is what needs done, but all of that NEEDS done. Such a game would be so amazing.

(oh, yeah, and if you can integrate the 2 games in a meta way so that when 2 squadrons met and fought in the capital ship game you could, if you choose, resolve the dogfight with a game of X-Wing, that would be stupendously incredible)

Agreed. It would also take FOREVER to play. But it would be stupendous.

(oh, yeah, and if you can integrate the 2 games in a meta way so that when 2 squadrons met and fought in the capital ship game you could, if you choose, resolve the dogfight with a game of X-Wing, that would be stupendously incredible)

Agreed. It would also take FOREVER to play. But it would be stupendous.

And of course, come out with a Star Wars mod for twilight imperium that allows for the space battles to be fought with the capital ship game, the trading, espionage and political stuff to be run with the RPGs and then of course we would need a ground forces game to complete my concept of heaven.

(oh, yeah, and if you can integrate the 2 games in a meta way so that when 2 squadrons met and fought in the capital ship game you could, if you choose, resolve the dogfight with a game of X-Wing, that would be stupendously incredible)

Agreed. It would also take FOREVER to play. But it would be stupendous.

And of course, come out with a Star Wars mod for twilight imperium that allows for the space battles to be fought with the capital ship game, the trading, espionage and political stuff to be run with the RPGs and then of course we would need a ground forces game to complete my concept of heaven.

(oh, yeah, and if you can integrate the 2 games in a meta way so that when 2 squadrons met and fought in the capital ship game you could, if you choose, resolve the dogfight with a game of X-Wing, that would be stupendously incredible)

The old GW Mighty Empires game attempted this. If 2 army tokens met on the game board, then the encounter could be resolved with a full Warhammer battle- you just had to keep track of what the initial army token represented (eg if not just 100 points, but how those point were made up). This would be cool way to transition from capital ships to fighters, but you would need at least 2 gaming tables!

And of course, come out with a Star Wars mod for twilight imperium

You had me at hello.

(oh, yeah, and if you can integrate the 2 games in a meta way so that when 2 squadrons met and fought in the capital ship game you could, if you choose, resolve the dogfight with a game of X-Wing, that would be stupendously incredible)

Agreed. It would also take FOREVER to play. But it would be stupendous.

And of course, come out with a Star Wars mod for twilight imperium that allows for the space battles to be fought with the capital ship game, the trading, espionage and political stuff to be run with the RPGs and then of course we would need a ground forces game to complete my concept of heaven.

Yes. This. My brain hurts just comprehending the glory of it. And the amount of time it would take.

Would love to see a proper fleet game. Although probably more a clone wars one; Endor aside, there's never really a 'fleet engagement' in the original star wars, whilst Venator-class Star Destroyers and seperatist frigates and cruisers slugged it out in a lot of episodes.

Also, both are big carriers and figuring out how to have a dogfight weaving through a fleet engagement would be a big thing.

Lastly, clone wars fleet engagements often included boarding actions and that would be awesome to see.

The only question would be would be what models would be included. I could see a purely Rebel ship like the Correlian Corvette, a ship that could be used by both either side like the Nebulan-B and an exclusive Imperial ship that is around the same size as the Corvette in the core set, I sure wouldn't want to have to spend money on another set of the same fighters for a cap ship game. The only X-Wing models that should be resized are those that are size large as individually they would be the same size as the small ships when the are compared to any of the cap ships.

With this in mind I could see the core set including a sheet of new ship tokens for all the small X-Wing ships so they could be used in the cap ship game with one side representing a basic squad and the other for an elite squad, new cards for them to represent an entire squad rather than a single ship and resized movement templates and range ruler so they can still use their dials. Of course this means that any future X-Wing waves after this game came out would have to include a ship token and card to allow its use in the cap ship game. Financially this might be possible depending on how long it would take to develop such a game.

Another way to do it would to just include rules to convert your small X-Wing models to the new format such as restricting them to generic squadron pilots to be flown as an entire squadron while any named pilots such as Luke or Soontir would be an upgrade card that would give the squadron special abilities. Large X-Wing models would have to be reissued at the same size as the small ships (40mm) but could be flown as individual ships. The only question is if their stats would change because they would be a single ship or remain the same.

For the scale of the warships themselves, I can see ships that are between 100m to 400m long using either a 40mm or a 50mm base such as the corvette or Neb-B. Ships that are between 400m to 900m lung would use a 60mm base so that dreadnaughts and escort carriers can fielded. These ships models would be around the same size physically as the large X-Wing models. Any ship over 900m such as the VSD, ISD or MC-80 would have models that would have to be Huge with the VSD model being the same size as the Transport model and the ISD/MC-80 models winding up being the same size as the Corvette meaning both would have double bases and could only be used in Epic play.

Like I said, I would like to a cap ship version of X-Wing but only if I don't have to buy new fighter models. The only problem I could see if this was sold is that we would get a lot of people wanting Super Star Destroyers and maybe a Torpedo Spheres to be sold.

The thing that makes capital ships so cool is their size when compared to fighters, so purely on an aesthetic vibe I think most would agree that the size difference needs to be emphasized. Fighters basically have very limited combat ability against these ships so should be given 2 different attack stats: one for dogfighting against enemy fighters and another against larger targets. Basically if the fighter can carry torpedoes, bombs or missiles then it has a small chance of hurting a capital ship otherwise it cannot touch them.

Fighters could be based completely differently to as they are now, in effect they could become "markers only" but should have much more freedom of movement and could just be given a speed rating. I don't see a reason they would need to be plotted as the time scale would be longer than in X Wing. Only the big ships really would need plotting as they become the main weapon systems.

I like the idea of "upgrading" a fighter group with a special ability to reflect superior training or leadership. But that is about as much as they would need to differentiate. Battles on this scale should be fought by the basic troops and heroes should be rare.

I agree with DB, fighters would become insignificant when compared to a capital ship. The main combatants are going to be the capital ships. Take a look at Battlefleet Gothic and you'll see that fighters and bombers are represented by a counter that indicates a squadron. This doesn't mean that they don't play an active part in the game, quite the contrary. Bombers can really deal damage if they get in close enough, and that's where the fighters come in.

As for trying to adapt the current X-Wing game, I wouldn't bother. It would need such an extensive overhaul, that it would end up looking like a new game anyway. The flight path system is a good concept for movement, but probably with different templates. As we've seen from the movies, the bigger ships don't exactly turn on a dime.

The concept of a capital ship game really appeals to a lot of gamers (me included) and if FFG ever decide to give it a go, I'd be keen to play.

It would need such an extensive overhaul, that it would end up looking like a new game anyway.

For most of us, that's what we'd want. A whole new game, just one based at least in part on the current flight path/x-wing system. So the same dice, same ship and upgrade card system, using dials to plot movement. Use the energy system from the Huge ships perhaps.

Given how much bigger a ISD is then a CR-90, if you put the ISD on a Large base, making say 6 inches long... A CR-90 would be about half an inch long and a Neb would be about 1 in long.

I wonder if the CR-90 wouldn't be a bit small at that scale. But if you make the ISD much larger and the cost will go up a fair bit, and you won't be able to fit as many on a table.

Big ships in the SW universe, slugging it out over a planet is really kind of boring to me. Attack Wing is interesting (I haven't played, just watched) as the universe there is designed for fast moving, large ships armed to the teeth but that are still somewhat fragile once their shields drop. Watching a Mon Cal, a Neb-B and a few Corvettes try to slug it out against a Lancer and Star Destroyer or two is just a bunch of turbo lasers flashing back and forth, broadside style.

Which is exactly what the ships were designed to do. The opening scenes from Episode 3 showed just that. I think there's a valid concept there for a good game design, it's just deciding the right sort of mechanics to drive it properly. I've written gaming rules for World War 2 Naval combat and it can start out as a slug fest, but once the damage starts mounting and fires start taking hold, it becomes more interesting. Do I pull out of the battle line to put out the fires, or try and slug it out to the death?

Scale of models is always going to be an interesting question. X-Wing went through a few different scales before settling on the current one. Battlefleet Gothic have cruisers as their fleet mainstay and the models are about 4" long representing ships that are supposed to the 3.5km in length. I think their scales are ludicrous, but that's just me. If you take the Victory Class Star Destroyer as the starting point and make a model about 4-5" in length, I think the rest should fall into place quite well. That would make the Imperial class about the biggest you're likely to see on the table and the smaller frigates still detailed enough.

I would seriously love to know if FFG are actually considering this as a game. I think it would be awesome.

Put an ISD and Mon Cal Cruiser at the huge ship scale, that should put corvettes near or at the small ship scale.

If they really introduce a Star Wars Capital Ship game I want to see ships beyond the size of an ISD ...

So, for all of you guys who want a capital scale star wars game...

1) Fleet scale Star Wars minis of your preference

2) Firestorm Armada Rulebook

3) ????????????????

4) Profit!

In all honesty, I enjoy the Star Destroyer and Death Star as much as the next guy, but when I think Star Wars space battles, I think X-Wing scale and the dogfighting aesthetic much more than capital ship on capital ship. Yes, they were there, but the focus has always been much more on the "human" (pilot) scale.

(oh, yeah, and if you can integrate the 2 games in a meta way so that when 2 squadrons met and fought in the capital ship game you could, if you choose, resolve the dogfight with a game of X-Wing, that would be stupendously incredible)

The old GW Mighty Empires game attempted this. If 2 army tokens met on the game board, then the encounter could be resolved with a full Warhammer battle- you just had to keep track of what the initial army token represented (eg if not just 100 points, but how those point were made up). This would be cool way to transition from capital ships to fighters, but you would need at least 2 gaming tables!

I did something like this maybe 10 years ago. Large game of Epic 40k, with the objectives of the Epic 40k game being dealt with by a WH40k game, and with the objectives of the WH40k being handled with Inquisitor figurines. The battle took almost 4 days to complete and four or five tables (1 epic, 3 40k, 1 inquistor).

Needless to say, I dont have the time for that anymore.