We have two "tanks" (Hired Gun: Enforcer, Marauder) and the group is considering getting a 4R3 so they can board ships in combat through the Stinger Boarding Tube. But that ship is very expensive.

He's a Droid. Strap him onto some Sub-Warp engines that he's plugged into, give him a Military Grade Rail Gun, drop him out the cargo hold, and call it a day.

The party now has their own state-of-the-art "AI" controlled Space-Drone. Even better, he can board the bad guys' ships and lay waste from the inside!

That is far and away much more gonzo/Pink Mohawk than I care for in my Star Wars.

I don't know what gonzo/Pink Mohawk means.

But if you're implying that what I suggested "isn't very Star Warsy", then I would argue that it is VERY Star Warsy. The Droid Army in the Prequel Trilogy had star-fighters. Except... they weren't star fighters... they were actually droids that had the ability to fly in space, and shoot down other Pilot run star fighters, as well as maintain security duties while docked inside the main drop ship.

I'm not saying turn him into a MechWarrior or some kind of Battletech thing. I'm saying there ought to be some way he can do something useful that he is good at, and my suggestion is supported by the mother of all legitimacy - the movies.

There ought to be something that he can attach to that would allow him sub-lightspeed space flight. Even the Jedi Star Fighters had to attach to a warp engine drive.

He's a Droid. Strap him onto some Sub-Warp engines that he's plugged into, give him a Military Grade Rail Gun, drop him out the cargo hold, and call it a day.

The party now has their own state-of-the-art "AI" controlled Space-Drone. Even better, he can board the bad guys' ships and lay waste from the inside!

That is far and away much more gonzo/Pink Mohawk than I care for in my Star Wars.

I don't know what gonzo/Pink Mohawk means.

But if you're implying that what I suggested "isn't very Star Warsy", then I would argue that it is VERY Star Warsy. The Droid Army in the Prequel Trilogy had star-fighters. Except... they weren't star fighters... they were actually droids that had the ability to fly in space, and shoot down other Pilot run star fighters, as well as maintain security duties while docked inside the main drop ship.

I'm not saying turn him into a MechWarrior or some kind of Battletech thing. I'm saying there ought to be some way he can do something useful that he is good at, and my suggestion is supported by the mother of all legitimacy - the movies.

There ought to be something that he can attach to that would allow him sub-lightspeed space flight. Even the Jedi Star Fighters had to attach to a warp engine drive.

But who's going to bring me my drink and snacks?..............

He's a Droid. Strap him onto some Sub-Warp engines that he's plugged into, give him a Military Grade Rail Gun, drop him out the cargo hold, and call it a day.

The party now has their own state-of-the-art "AI" controlled Space-Drone. Even better, he can board the bad guys' ships and lay waste from the inside!

That is far and away much more gonzo/Pink Mohawk than I care for in my Star Wars.

I don't know what gonzo/Pink Mohawk means.

But if you're implying that what I suggested "isn't very Star Warsy", then I would argue that it is VERY Star Warsy. The Droid Army in the Prequel Trilogy had star-fighters. Except... they weren't star fighters... they were actually droids that had the ability to fly in space, and shoot down other Pilot run star fighters, as well as maintain security duties while docked inside the main drop ship.

I'm not saying turn him into a MechWarrior or some kind of Battletech thing. I'm saying there ought to be some way he can do something useful that he is good at, and my suggestion is supported by the mother of all legitimacy - the movies.

There ought to be something that he can attach to that would allow him sub-lightspeed space flight. Even the Jedi Star Fighters had to attach to a warp engine drive.

But who's going to bring me my drink and snacks?..............

....

.......

There ought to be something you could attach to that would allow you to make your own drinks

He's a Droid. Strap him onto some Sub-Warp engines that he's plugged into, give him a Military Grade Rail Gun, drop him out the cargo hold, and call it a day.

The party now has their own state-of-the-art "AI" controlled Space-Drone. Even better, he can board the bad guys' ships and lay waste from the inside!

That is far and away much more gonzo/Pink Mohawk than I care for in my Star Wars.

I don't know what gonzo/Pink Mohawk means.

I hadn't heard of Pink Mohawk either so I did a bit of research. Apparently it's a term from Shadowrun. In that game you are "supposed" to be stealthy and break into places without anyone noticing. Someone with a Pink Mohawk is going to be noticed and easily picked out of a crowd, so the term Pink Mohawk refers to players who don't try to be stealthy. Instead of picking a lock at the back door and going unnoticed, they'll crash a car into the front door and come out guns blazing.

TheMoreYouKnow.gif

Raice, I agree with you that your description is in line with Star Wars. Well, maybe just the prequel trillogy but I bet some would argue those movies are Pink Mohawk when compared to the originals. Really, all that you're suggesting is that the droid becomes a fighter pilot and has his own little starship to fly around in during battles. I'll agree that it's a cool idea, but probably cost prohibitive for the average adventuring group and they would need to be flying a transport large enough to carry the little ship. Too bad that doesn't solve the problems of this character, who will only have one die in anything he tries that doesn't use Brawn. Unless he uses his personal little ship to board enemy ships and take them down from the inside. Which, that leaves it's own issues. Such as, what happens when the party needs to get out of there quick and want to hit the hyperdrive. They would have to stick around until the droid returned or just leave him behind.

I agree that this Droid player made a character that is SOL in space battles. Other than being able to use Brawn to repair once per combat, he'll not have much to do. Or at least not have much success in doing anything. Pretty much the best that he can do is use the assist action to give other players boost dice. But them's the breaks when you make such a focused character.

He's a Droid. Strap him onto some Sub-Warp engines that he's plugged into, give him a Military Grade Rail Gun, drop him out the cargo hold, and call it a day.

The party now has their own state-of-the-art "AI" controlled Space-Drone. Even better, he can board the bad guys' ships and lay waste from the inside!

That is far and away much more gonzo/Pink Mohawk than I care for in my Star Wars.

I don't know what gonzo/Pink Mohawk means.

I hadn't heard of Pink Mohawk either so I did a bit of research. Apparently it's a term from Shadowrun. In that game you are "supposed" to be stealthy and break into places without anyone noticing. Someone with a Pink Mohawk is going to be noticed and easily picked out of a crowd, so the term Pink Mohawk refers to players who don't try to be stealthy. Instead of picking a lock at the back door and going unnoticed, they'll crash a car into the front door and come out guns blazing.

TheMoreYouKnow.gif

Raice, I agree with you that your description is in line with Star Wars. Well, maybe just the prequel trillogy but I bet some would argue those movies are Pink Mohawk when compared to the originals. Really, all that you're suggesting is that the droid becomes a fighter pilot and has his own little starship to fly around in during battles. I'll agree that it's a cool idea, but probably cost prohibitive for the average adventuring group and they would need to be flying a transport large enough to carry the little ship. Too bad that doesn't solve the problems of this character, who will only have one die in anything he tries that doesn't use Brawn. Unless he uses his personal little ship to board enemy ships and take them down from the inside. Which, that leaves it's own issues. Such as, what happens when the party needs to get out of there quick and want to hit the hyperdrive. They would have to stick around until the droid returned or just leave him behind.

I agree that this Droid player made a character that is SOL in space battles. Other than being able to use Brawn to repair once per combat, he'll not have much to do. Or at least not have much success in doing anything. Pretty much the best that he can do is use the assist action to give other players boost dice. But them's the breaks when you make such a focused character.

With your explanation - I can see what gonzo/Pink Mohawk means. I still am not sure how it applies to what I suggested... but it doesn't matter. It's neither here nor there...

One doesn't have to use my suggestion particularly, but I think it should be a challenge for the player and the GM to come up with a solution that would enhance the player's enjoyment.

However, telling the player they're SOL for making the character they wanted to play sort of seems like a punishment to me. While I am all for having consequences for one's actions... the solution to the issue isn't to remind the player that they suck, but to help them find the value in finding a solution. My suggestion was basically just trying to turn lemons into lemonade.

The only real solution is for the player to just put some points into another skill. It's not like it would take that long. And even if they have a 1 in a characterstic... it isn't the end of the world. You can run a perfectly good character with several skills that are 4G/1Y or 3G/1Y or 2G/1Y. The Upgraded die doesn't mean you are necessarily better at something. It simply means luck is on your side.

With your explanation - I can see what gonzo/Pink Mohawk means. I still am not sure how it applies to what I suggested... but it doesn't matter. It's neither here nor there...

You suggested strapping sublight engines and a railgun onto a droid so he could presumably fly at speeds comparable to his ship and shoot at any fighters pursuing it. I call that pretty gonzo compared to most Star Wars stuff, "out there" in a way different from the gonzo moments in TFU, and quite out of theme of the setting. That's just my opinion. Star Wars' baseline isn't Shadowrun "mirrorshades" style, but Edge is closer to it than AoR is, Edge being Firefly-esque and very much like Shadowrun-in-space.

However, telling the player they're SOL for making the character they wanted to play sort of seems like a punishment to me. While I am all for having consequences for one's actions... the solution to the issue isn't to remind the player that they suck, but to help them find the value in finding a solution. My suggestion was basically just trying to turn lemons into lemonade.

I would say the player should learn to be helpful with other actions or invest some XP into another **** skill set. If he doesn't want to do that, he reaps what he sows. Space combat is typically a much smaller part of games than surface action (whether combat or noncombat). The character already shines at personal-scale combat, so I don't have much compassion for his "bored" moments when he's hyperspecialized and in a rare scene in which he can't just stomp face. If th player is only interested in being a one-dimensional killbot, tell him to pick up Gunnery.

With your explanation - I can see what gonzo/Pink Mohawk means. I still am not sure how it applies to what I suggested... but it doesn't matter. It's neither here nor there...

You suggested strapping sublight engines and a railgun onto a droid so he could presumably fly at speeds comparable to his ship and shoot at any fighters pursuing it. I call that pretty gonzo compared to most Star Wars stuff, "out there" in a way different from the gonzo moments in TFU, and quite out of theme of the setting. That's just my opinion. Star Wars' baseline isn't Shadowrun "mirrorshades" style, but Edge is closer to it than AoR is, Edge being Firefly-esque and very much like Shadowrun-in-space.

However, telling the player they're SOL for making the character they wanted to play sort of seems like a punishment to me. While I am all for having consequences for one's actions... the solution to the issue isn't to remind the player that they suck, but to help them find the value in finding a solution. My suggestion was basically just trying to turn lemons into lemonade.

I would say the player should learn to be helpful with other actions or invest some XP into another **** skill set. If he doesn't want to do that, he reaps what he sows. Space combat is typically a much smaller part of games than surface action (whether combat or noncombat). The character already shines at personal-scale combat, so I don't have much compassion for his "bored" moments when he's hyperspecialized and in a rare scene in which he can't just stomp face. If th player is only interested in being a one-dimensional killbot, tell him to pick up Gunnery.

Sorry - I still don't see how it's "gonzo" or not fitting in Star Wars. We'll just have to have different opinions about it, I guess.

Also - having a bad attitude toward your player isn't the best way to handle the situation. All you have to do is suggest they put some skills in other areas, and leave it at that. If you give out 15XP a session, then they ought to be able to put a few points into something in 2 sessions.

Sorry - I still don't see how it's "gonzo" or not fitting in Star Wars. We'll just have to have different opinions about it, I guess.

*shrug* that's fine. I just see it as going beyond the level of heroic realism in Star Wars to something purely goofy. But I'm not trying to say you're wrong, just to clarify my opinion.

Also - having a bad attitude toward your player isn't the best way to handle the situation. All you have to do is suggest they put some skills in other areas, and leave it at that. If you give out 15XP a session, then they ought to be able to put a few points into something in 2 sessions.

Sure, but if the player just doesn't want to invest in other things, I see no reason to cater to them in one specific scenario in which they've actively chosen to be useless. Maybe after that happening a couple times they'll get the drift and invest elsewhere. Again, it's not like space combat is most of the game. They'll either get sick of not having something to do besides Aid and diversify, or they won't and the GM is fully within rights to say "quit b***hing about having nothing to do in space."

Sorry - I still don't see how it's "gonzo" or not fitting in Star Wars. We'll just have to have different opinions about it, I guess.

*shrug* that's fine. I just see it as going beyond the level of heroic realism in Star Wars to something purely goofy. But I'm not trying to say you're wrong, just to clarify my opinion.

Also - having a bad attitude toward your player isn't the best way to handle the situation. All you have to do is suggest they put some skills in other areas, and leave it at that. If you give out 15XP a session, then they ought to be able to put a few points into something in 2 sessions.

Sure, but if the player just doesn't want to invest in other things, I see no reason to cater to them in one specific scenario in which they've actively chosen to be useless. Maybe after that happening a couple times they'll get the drift and invest elsewhere. Again, it's not like space combat is most of the game. They'll either get sick of not having something to do besides Aid and diversify, or they won't and the GM is fully within rights to say "quit b***hing about having nothing to do in space."

No, you aren't saying I'm wrong... you're just calling me goofy. Which still doesn't make sense that its even goofy because, why doesn't a Rocketeer in Space fit in Star Wars? It has just as much relevance as an R2 unit riding shotgun in the back of an X-Wing. If this were a humanoid species doing this, I could see how that's a little absurd... maybe... but the character is a Droid. It's the very fact that it is a Droid that made me think it would be okay in the first place. So there's really no reason why you couldn't do this other than a GM's lack of imagination.

But whatever... you don't like it. That's fine. I didn't make the suggestion for your approval in the first place. The OP asked a question, and I answered it.

But whatever... you don't like it. That's fine. I didn't make the suggestion for your approval in the first place. The OP asked a question, and I answered it.

You posted on a public forum. I voiced an opinion-based response to it. What's the problem?

Which still doesn't make sense that its even goofy because, why doesn't a Rocketeer in Space fit in Star Wars? It has just as much relevance as an R2 unit riding shotgun in the back of an X-Wing. If this were a humanoid species doing this, I could see how that's a little absurd... maybe... but the character is a Droid. It's the very fact that it is a Droid that made me think it would be okay in the first place. So there's really no reason why you couldn't do this other than a GM's lack of imagination.

R-series units are plugged in a socket in a starfighter. To me that's different than strapping sunlight engines to a droid (which I don't think you can even miniaturize to that level appropriately? I mean, compare the size of a TIE fighter and, say, an IG-series assassin droid). PC droids are (typically) humanoid in shape and size, and that's what I think makes it seem silly. Even the closest analogue to a flying battle suit is the StarViper starfighter and that's still closer to an X-wing in size than a Sil 1 person.

Speed and possible damage to the droid from strain of speed and micrometeor impacts aside (lacking Armor), I just, I dunno, it doesn't seem (to me) that it's in-theme. I mean, we can keep discussing it but I don't think there's much point to it. We have different views on this, and that's fine.

I think it would be easier for the Marauder to just buy some ranks of Gunnery............or of course serve me drinks and snacks. I'm much more accurate on a happy tummy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Ra1ecLhtI

At 26:30

The metal gnome... Tipsy Special and his fruit punch.

I think I broke a rib laughing

Hillarious!

But whatever... you don't like it. That's fine. I didn't make the suggestion for your approval in the first place. The OP asked a question, and I answered it.

You posted on a public forum. I voiced an opinion-based response to it. What's the problem?

There isn't a problem other than you challenging someone else's opinion, and pointing out that it's goofy because it doesn't match your opinion, and then somehow being surprised when they tell you their idea is just as valid as anything else. The only problem is the one you're having with someone else's opinion and idea.

Which still doesn't make sense that its even goofy because, why doesn't a Rocketeer in Space fit in Star Wars? It has just as much relevance as an R2 unit riding shotgun in the back of an X-Wing. If this were a humanoid species doing this, I could see how that's a little absurd... maybe... but the character is a Droid. It's the very fact that it is a Droid that made me think it would be okay in the first place. So there's really no reason why you couldn't do this other than a GM's lack of imagination.

R-series units are plugged in a socket in a starfighter. To me that's different than strapping sunlight engines to a droid (which I don't think you can even miniaturize to that level appropriately? I mean, compare the size of a TIE fighter and, say, an IG-series assassin droid). PC droids are (typically) humanoid in shape and size, and that's what I think makes it seem silly. Even the closest analogue to a flying battle suit is the StarViper starfighter and that's still closer to an X-wing in size than a Sil 1 person.

Speed and possible damage to the droid from strain of speed and micrometeor impacts aside (lacking Armor), I just, I dunno, it doesn't seem (to me) that it's in-theme. I mean, we can keep discussing it but I don't think there's much point to it. We have different views on this, and that's fine.

I guess if you really wanted to get super technical with all the details as to why someone couldn't be a Rocketeer in Space and do what I said, then... sure... if your idea of Star Wars is super technical like that - then I suppose it would be gonzo/Pink Mohawk.

But the reality is... Star Wars has never actually been that technical about anything. Things happened... because George Lucas said so, and it served the plot. Which is exactly what this game tries to get the players and the GM to do. Like I said... the only thing that would prevent someone from doing this is a GM with a lack of imagination.

Which is exactly what this game tries to get the players and the GM to do. Like I said... the only thing that would prevent someone from doing this is a GM with a lack of imagination.

There's a plain difference between a GM lacking imagination and a GM trying to hew to a gritty or more "realistic" theme similar to the OT.

The PT had a lot of gonzo CGI stuff because nobody had the balls to tell GL "that's not a great idea" and it really shows.

There is always unskilled assistance! Add bonus die to other pc rolls, where applicable. He has to have some skills he can use in regards to take 7-7, pg.237. Core rulebook, additional starship and vehicle actions. But hey, he built his character for one thing and one thing only. If he wants more out of his character, he should have built him different. Everyone gets their chance to shine, doesn't have to be in every situation.

Also, I think the rocketeer idea is creative, however, remember how planetary and space scale to each other. I believe the rules say that one damage from a ship its equal to ten damage in a personal scale. That being said, if a ship has 2 armor, would he not have to break twenty damage just to get past the soak? And even if he did and he dealt one damage, would that not equal 0.1 damage to a ships hull? It would sure keep him busy, and I am also sure it could provide a great comic portion to space combat, but I don't think he could accomplish much in a personal level against a ship. Plus, there is the matter of flying, and I have no idea if an ion engine could be scaled down to fit in a 1 silhouette person, although Buzz droids seem to keep up with ships just fine in the movies, and they are probably silhouette 0, so it can probably be done. He should be careful though, because if that enemy ship deals damage to him, you are multiplying it by ten, and if that is the case, he is going to be nothing but space dust by the end of combat, if they can hit him. But if Luke can bullseye wampa rats, I think that someone can probably bullseye your death blender... fun idea though!

I would reiterate my original idea about having something strength based the character can do on the ship, such as being the only character strong enough to use an oversized gun, loading shells into cannons, or even physically holding parts of the ship together that have been jerry-rigged to work.

As has been said, there's no reason to purposefully exclude someone from participating if you have time to plan for it. Like yeah, fine, the first time you run ship combat and realize the character has nothing to do, it's not your fault as a GM for by coming up with something. After that, though, every time you put in a space section you're purposefully exlcuding the player because you know they won't have things to do. I personally think that if someone makes a character who they want to beep boop punch someone in half, then they should get a chance to do that in different situations unless it starts interfering with the other players fun.

Also, yeah, I think the droid with engines strapped to him flying around with a rail gun doesn't quite feel like Star Wars to me, either. It's hard to explain why, but I guess it feels like it goes against the whole set of archetypal characters found in the movies who are all grounded to some extent within limits and feels more like something from a different setting. I think that just trying to fly close enough to other ships to let the murder droid jump onto them as start tearing up feels better, though, because it's in keeping with a more common event in Star Wars (jumping across vehicles).

As has been said, there's no reason to purposefully exclude someone from participating if you have time to plan for it. Like yeah, fine, the first time you run ship combat and realize the character has nothing to do, it's not your fault as a GM for by coming up with something. After that, though, every time you put in a space section you're purposefully exlcuding the player because you know they won't have things to do. I personally think that if someone makes a character who they want to beep boop punch someone in half, then they should get a chance to do that in different situations unless it starts interfering with the other players fun.

I don't think it's possible for me to disagree more with everything you say here. It is in no way the GMs job to give the characters something to do in every conceivable situation. If a player makes a character that is good at one thing and one thing only, then that's his choice. If he wants to be useful in space encounters, he should increase skills like Piloting, Gunnery, Astrogation, Mechanics, Computers, Leadership or Perception. If he refuses to do this it's his choice. It takes two to tango. If a player wants the GM to adapt the adventure to his character, the very least he can do is meet him halfway.

A guy with a vibro axe isn't going to be much use modding weapons, doing medicine checks, hacking computers, picking locks, flying ships. I think there are skills to do everything you need to do in this game and while some crossover at times, the crossover is reasonable typically. I think the boarding action thing is a reasonable suggestion and about the best a melee person can hope for in space combat, provided you aren't engaged with star fighters. Even if they have a 2 Agility, sorry, but I don't think dropping a couple three sessions worth of xp on gunnery is all that big a sacrifice if the melee player wants to be useful otherwise in space combat.

Frankly a GM has enough of a job insuring all the other players with all their skills have an opportunity to do what it is they do. If a GM has to on top of that invent a bunch of dubious contrived silliness because one player chose to hyper specialize I don't see how that's fair to everyone else at the table.

There is also getting up and getting me drinks and snacks during the fight, which is completely valid as far as I'm concerned......

Also, yeah, I think the droid with engines strapped to him flying around with a rail gun doesn't quite feel like Star Wars to me, either. It's hard to explain why, but I guess it feels like it goes against the whole set of archetypal characters found in the movies who are all grounded to some extent within limits and feels more like something from a different setting. I think that just trying to fly close enough to other ships to let the murder droid jump onto them as start tearing up feels better, though, because it's in keeping with a more common event in Star Wars (jumping across vehicles).

I agree with this part.

As has been said, there's no reason to purposefully exclude someone from participating if you have time to plan for it. Like yeah, fine, the first time you run ship combat and realize the character has nothing to do, it's not your fault as a GM for by coming up with something. After that, though, every time you put in a space section you're purposefully exlcuding the player because you know they won't have things to do. I personally think that if someone makes a character who they want to beep boop punch someone in half, then they should get a chance to do that in different situations unless it starts interfering with the other players fun.

I don't think it's possible for me to disagree more with everything you say here. It is in no way the GMs job to give the characters something to do in every conceivable situation. If a player makes a character that is good at one thing and one thing only, then that's his choice. If he wants to be useful in space encounters, he should increase skills like Piloting, Gunnery, Astrogation, Mechanics, Computers, Leadership or Perception. If he refuses to do this it's his choice. It takes two to tango. If a player wants the GM to adapt the adventure to his character, the very least he can do is meet him halfway.

As I said, I see nothing wrong if the player lands in a situation in which you didn't plan for him to be one-note and can't think of anything to have him do. Lots of people have been very condescending about the player (eg he can get my drinks or he should have made a different character) and I've basically been getting the vibe that people want to see the player punished for his character. People can try to claim that they intend otherwise or talk about player responsibility, but in the end what I'm reading from most people is a condescending desire for the player to suffer consequences (which is different from a character suffering consequences, mind you).

Here's the thing. This is a system that is built to allow heavily specialized characters. Lots of systems prevent this. You're choosing to play this one, though. The player has every right to make a heavily specialized character if he wants to. The game is not designed around punishing players, only characters. As I said, if you can come up with something fun enough for a character to do, you should go through with it. Please note that the first poster was originally asking for ideas on this and was told to not bother with that and that the player should just be punished with less play time. How many of the people posting about this would be able to look someone in the eye and tell them "well, you made your character wrong even though the game says you can do it this way so why don't you just sit on your thumbs or get me a snack?" How would you yourself feel being told this? Keep in mind that I explicitly said that it's fun to indulge someone so long as no ones fun is getting impacted. I should have clarified that this includes the GMs fun, but I sense that a lot of people are just hostile toward combat heavy players. Keep this in mind: if the only things the combat heavy character can have a good shot at are combat, then they're never going to try anything different.

So yeah, I would say that some people need to consider whether they're trying to punish a player or a character, and what is motivating them to do that. Also, if anyone tries the "I'm not punishing, the player brought this on himself" keep in mind that I've already mentioned that as the one running the game it's your choice on encounters to run and thus your choice to run something if you already know a player can't participate in it.