One of my good friends brought something new to the table last night, and I will admit it had my stymied with my go-to list.

Howl (Swarm Tactics)

Academy

Academy

Academy

Academy

Captain Yorr (HLC)

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I was running my usual XXBB list which got roflstomped in the first round.

I set up asteroids to block lanes on the mini-swarm, and he just kinda laid his out.

Looking at the board from my side, this is the starting configuration from round one. In round two I moved the rebels to the opposite side and tried the XXBB with Biggs, Rookie, Dagger (FCS) Dagger (AdvS). Howl is in the back middle.

(shuttle) |o| |o| |o|

|o| |o|

B B

X X

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So, basically here is what happened in round one.

I started off holding the pinwheel, moving from 7:00 to 9:00, and hooked out to the left to get around the asteroids and close on the shuttle to see if I could focus it down quickly.

Halfway into this theory, when my squad was around 10:30-11:00, facing 1:00-1:30, and the shuttle was dead ahead, but with his arcs toward 10:00-10:30ish, I realized that even though I had a sight positional advantage, since the Ties are faster, they would close on my formation before I could get around the clock face to engage them, especially if I had to go for round two on the shuttle.

The asteroid placement did cause the ties to break formation on the same turn that I fired a salvo at the shuttle, but it would prove to be of little use.

The shuttle nearly smoked a rookie in one pass with the HLC leaving him with 1 hull. (Holy crap blanks I hate dice!)

So now I had a separate problem. I had to break pace with the shuttle assault and scramble. The problem here, as you probably guessed, my only real option to not get caught in cat and mouse with faster tie fighters was to dive away or K-turn, and only one B-wing can focus while K-Turning (AdvS).

The first barrage from the Ties cooked off Rookie Pilot A and stripped shields off Rookie Pilot B.

The shuttle never got back into HLC arc which is the only positive thing that happened. Had he been running Ion instead I would be in trouble.

At this point, we were all in a furball near his side of the board, and the shuttle absorbed stress tokens to let the TIEs get positioning and keep evades, with me trying to get the B-Wings back into some sort of attack formation. I got an opportunity two rounds later to kill the shuttle, and managed to off him, and in the end I got two of Howl's TIEs before I went down.

So like I said in the next game I tried to reverse the formations starting position and add Biggs.

I flew up the right side, used the asteroids to hide biggs, and buckled in. The Shuttle and Howl stripped shields off Biggs, though no clear focus fire target was available (only 1 B-Wing was range 1, and the arcs on the others were off kilter), so we managed to hand out damage cards to two TIEs. (Round 3 maybe?)

I then cut out hard to the right, fooled his TIEs who K-Turned, and the chase was on.

I got arc on the shuttle and stripped shields and 1 hull with 4 ships.....(dice....)

But again, the shuttle was alive and the TIEs were closing. I tried to go full bore and K-turned the B-Wings, thinking to loop the X-wings around and broadside the swarm. (having all my pilots stressed seemed like a bad idea) The TIEs got biggs, and HLC dropped a pretty big bomb on the B-Wing with FCS. Both B-Wings burned attack dice to kill the shuttle later, and the X-wing wasn't in arc yet.

However, I was once again in a bad spot. Stressed, down a high PS pilot and relatively surrounded and scattered.

We went on three more turns, with me trying everything I could to shake the TIEs.

Anyways ---

TLDR -

There didn't seem to be a *really* effective way to fly against this list in terms of what I was playing with. I either got marauded by the HLC on approach, or broadsided by it while taking on the TIEs.

You can't ignore the swarm long enough to deal with the shuttle (at least with my crappy dice) and you can't ignore HLC long enough with B-Wings to kill 5 TIE fighters.

Any ideas on a list more suited to this, or please, by all means - fix my strategy in dealing with it.

I'm willing to accept all critique - I'm sure I screwed up along the way.

I might've pondered sending the Rookie off to block. Probably shooting for the swarm, while charging ahead for the shuttle. I actually think I would've tried to keep Biggs out of it's arc, and let a B take the brunt on the first pass. If you could get Biggs in arc at R1, the shuttle would be forced to use it's primary weapon on you, and then you're not taking the crits as badly.

If you managed to stack up some TIEs with your Rook, you might have 2 rounds to kill the shuttle, before they engaged you.

Definitely a rough list.

Howl Swarm + Shuttle is a toughy!

I'd recommend...

Idk whatever recommend. The Falcon + Expert Handling comes to mind. Engagingbas often as you can outside the shuttles arc. With no engine, you might be able to rush in passed it. I'd also set up in the opposite side of the Shuttle. It'll be slow, so if you rush the swarm, you could do some hurt before the shuttle comes to bare.

There is nothing wrong with your list. XXBB should be trashing a tie every round once the action gets going. Biggs can help early rounds go your way.

If you want to change things up, I'm a big fan of Y-wings and the HWK. Ion turrets just ruin a tie swarms day.

Just thought of something that probably won't work, although would be really funny if it did...

4 Green squadron Pilots, all assault missiles and all VI just because 4 points left.

missiles into the swarm with splash damage leaves shuttle to get behind. In fact I might try it out!

Just thought of something that probably won't work, although would be really funny if it did...

4 Green squadron Pilots, all assault missiles and all VI just because 4 points left.

missiles into the swarm with splash damage leaves shuttle to get behind. In fact I might try it out!

Green+Deadeye+Assault

I call it "The A-Team". It can produce a glorious alpha strike.

Which side do you wish to fight using?

If Imperials, I would recommend TIEints PTL Stealth. Something like Soontir PTL Stealth can stand in front of Howlrunner's swarm for the entire day and never take a single hit, because of 4 agility + focus + evade tokens. Even the HLC will have trouble trying to punch through.

Something simple like 4x Royal PTLs would easily spoil his day.


~~~~~~~~~~~~

If Rebels, you have a lot of options. Assault missile on a PTL Green Awing would work, so would Luke R2D2 and you take out the Shuttle 1st, then keep Luke alive as long as possible, since it has been mathematically proven to be nearly impossible for a single TIE to take out an Xwing with R2D2, much less Luke R2D2

You can also opt for the Aluminium Falcon + engine upgrade + gunner / luke, and keep trying to dodge his firing arcs

Just thought of something that probably won't work, although would be really funny if it did...

4 Green squadron Pilots, all assault missiles and all VI just because 4 points left.

missiles into the swarm with splash damage leaves shuttle to get behind. In fact I might try it out!

Replace the VI with Deadeye.

Green+Deadeye+Assault

I call it "The A-Team". It can produce a glorious alpha strike.

Like it... that doesn't actually work though surely??

Just thought of something that probably won't work, although would be really funny if it did...

4 Green squadron Pilots, all assault missiles and all VI just because 4 points left.

missiles into the swarm with splash damage leaves shuttle to get behind. In fact I might try it out!

Replace the VI with Deadeye.

Green+Deadeye+Assault

I call it "The A-Team". It can produce a glorious alpha strike.

I like this a lot - I will definitely try this against his build.

My only concern is that I fly the XXBB all the time, as it's my tournament load out. I'd like to (and hopefully will) find a way to beat that list with my go-to's, but I will try to drop the Assault Alpha Strike on him tonight just to see what happens.

I'd focus fire on the shuttle, and make sure you have some Assault Missiles and Advanced Proton Torpedoes so you can threaten swarms and anyone closing to range 1. Advanced Sensors so you can Target Lock or Focus regardless of bumping into something is a must, since swarms can happily setup blocks for you as they'll move before you (generally).

2-ORS (27)

2-Gold Wing with Ion (23)

Total 100

Chewie, PTL, Anti Per Laser, Falcon Title, Gunner, Nien

2- Prototype with Assault (23)

Total (98)

This list has been winning a lot at my local store. You can give chewie a focus and a dodge each round. Nien allows for you to move forward and drop stress every time. The assault missiles can wreck the swarm.

Last

2- ONI Group Shuttle with Ion (24)

2- Ob Squad (13)

1- Carnor Jax (26)

I won my last game with this list and it is punishing with the ion though I think I going try the following change,

2- ONI Group Shuttle with Ion (24)

2- Black Squad (14)

1- Lt Lorrir (23) with PTL (1)

The Shuttle is a makes Assault missiles very tempting. Your chances of missing the shuttle with the assault missile are pretty slim so you should be able to get the free hits on the TIEs. Assault missiles are a great counter for Howelrunner, since in order to avoid the missiles' blast damage you have to lose Howelrunner's ability.

As for tactics, I would recommend charging the shuttle. You goal is to k-turn behind the shuttle as soon as possible. Once behind the shuttle, if TIEs get in your way kill Howelrunner, but if the TIEs stay out of your way you should make quick work of the Shuttle. It has a lot of hits, but I shouldn't really be able to shake you without EU.

You won't win easily head on. It sounds like you know that and tried to avoid a joust, but try harder! You place later than the TIEs so you should be able to easily position yourself in a way to avoid him for at least a little bit. The more that the TIEs have to maneuver, the more likely they are to be out of formation, especially with the slow shuttle near by.

I disagree with taking out the shuttle first... I'd rather fight a shuttle last than a TIE. Kill those TIE Fighters then worry about the shuttle.

I've always found it best when facing a shuttle to use this tactic. Move fast to the rear of the Shuttle using the asteroids to shield the attack as you pass. Once you have the rear of the shuttle focus your attack on the ties as they turn in towards you. on a non Engine upgraded Shuttle you have 3 turns of not worrying about the Space Cow. All you ever need is one X-wing to take out a shuttle, since the thing can never turn to fight it.

I disagree with taking out the shuttle first... I'd rather fight a shuttle last than a TIE. Kill those TIE Fighters then worry about the shuttle.

I was kind of thinking the same thing. Yeah, the HLC can be painful, but if you focus on the shuttle you aren't cutting his number of attacks very quickly. Fight the TIEs in the asteroid field and you'll really limit where the shuttle can go. I like to think of who has the best chance of keeping my fighters in their arc, and that will be the first target. This is why in Han Shoots First (and especially Expert Handling YT builds) I try to nail the transport first. They will dominate in end game. But the shuttle is much less of an end game threat than TIE fighters, especially if they are still backed by Howlrunner.

I recently read a post where someone described how they send the shuttle up the middle and his opponents always make the mistake of going for the shuttle first. His hardest games are against players who go for the TIE interceptor wingmen first. Wish I could remember where that was so I could link to it.

I disagree with taking out the shuttle first... I'd rather fight a shuttle last than a TIE. Kill those TIE Fighters then worry about the shuttle.

I was kind of thinking the same thing. Yeah, the HLC can be painful, but if you focus on the shuttle you aren't cutting his number of attacks very quickly. Fight the TIEs in the asteroid field and you'll really limit where the shuttle can go. I like to think of who has the best chance of keeping my fighters in their arc, and that will be the first target. This is why in Han Shoots First (and especially Expert Handling YT builds) I try to nail the transport first. They will dominate in end game. But the shuttle is much less of an end game threat than TIE fighters, especially if they are still backed by Howlrunner.

I recently read a post where someone described how they send the shuttle up the middle and his opponents always make the mistake of going for the shuttle first. His hardest games are against players who go for the TIE interceptor wingmen first. Wish I could remember where that was so I could link to it.

5 TIEs. If you're lucky, you kill 1 a turn. At best, that's 5 shots from the Shuttle. If I'm the shuttle player, I'm killing Biggs and then the B's. By the time you kill off the swarm, you're likely down to 1 X, 1 B (if you're lucky). And this is assuming no hits from the TIEs.

In my experience with shuttle and swarm combos, in an even game, i am left with 2 Ties and 1 shuttle vs 2 rebel small ships. This happens almost every time. That's about even, points wise as well. Just under 50 pts for both. At this point the shuttle will take a turn or 2 to get back into position.

Idk which is a better position to be in. I'd take the Ties and shuttle, if all are full life

If the Reb player went for the my TIEs, I would turtle them with Evades while the shuttle hammered the flank.

Just thought of something that probably won't work, although would be really funny if it did...

4 Green squadron Pilots, all assault missiles and all VI just because 4 points left.

missiles into the swarm with splash damage leaves shuttle to get behind. In fact I might try it out!

Replace the VI with Deadeye.

Green+Deadeye+Assault

I call it "The A-Team". It can produce a glorious alpha strike.

Like it... that doesn't actually work though surely??

This build lives and dies by the alpha strike. If the dice are nice to you, you've killed 2 to 4 ships and have several injured. You've broken your opponents formation and now its time to use those A-wings to finish the job. Because they have shields, they can afford a 1 on 1 joust at least once (something a Tie cannot do). It's a fun build, but the Alpha strike is everything. Play a casual game with it. Your friends will be taking about it for months either way.

If the Reb player went for the my TIEs, I would turtle them with Evades while the shuttle hammered the flank.

and that is why you put the shuttle looking at you from the rear view mirror. Sure the shuttle can Hammer things it can shoot but you can snicker at the thing as it makes it's 3 turn about face while you keep the fight away from it. A four ship rebel build will smoke a 5 tie swarm in no time. As i said before you can be left with a one hit point x-wing to finish off a shuttle all by himself.

If the Reb player went for the my TIEs, I would turtle them with Evades while the shuttle hammered the flank.

and that is why you put the shuttle looking at you from the rear view mirror. Sure the shuttle can Hammer things it can shoot but you can snicker at the thing as it makes it's 3 turn about face while you keep the fight away from it. A four ship rebel build will smoke a 5 tie swarm in no time. As i said before you can be left with a one hit point x-wing to finish off a shuttle all by himself.

* Emphasis on a shuttle with no Engine Upgrade, you mean

On the flip side of this conversation, why are so many choosing to fly the shuttle in this list? The squad I'm thinking about running in my first tournament is essentially the same build: Bounty Hunter w/ gunner and seismic charges, Howl w/ Swarm Tactics, Black Squadron w/ Draw Their Fire, 2x Academy Pilots. What's the advantage of the shuttle over the Firespray (aside from the extra TIE that is)?

The Tie, mostly. It can make a big difference.

The shuttle list is comparable to a list you should also try:

Howlrunner + Determination

Academy Pilot x 4

Bounty Hunter, no upgrades

Differences are, for the same pts as a BH, you can get a shuttle with some sort of offensive upgrades or an engine upgrade. This means if your shuttle never gets targeted (which is very possible in a timed match) your shuttle could output more damage than the BH. BH pays extra for the rear arc and extra agility, which are wasted if you never need to use them. There are merits to both.