Joffrey vs Longship Maidens Bane

By HastAttack, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

If I kneel my location Longship Maidens Bane, can my opponent trigget Joffrey's abilty

As far as I can work out I am not kneeling a character, so I would think not

Also as Joffrey is immune to triggered affects, can he be put into play using Flea Bottom?

If so, would he still come into play knelt?

thanks

Longship Maidens Bane

Challenges: During a challenge, kneel Longship Maiden's Bane to have it participate in the current challenge on your side as a character with "cannot be killed" and X STR. X is the number of Warship cards you control.

Joffrey Baratheon

Response: After an opponent's character is knelt, pay 1 gold to stand Joffrey Baratheon. Then, he claims 1 power.

Flea Bottom
Marshalling: Kneel Flea Bottom to lower the cost of the next character you play this phase by 2. That character comes into play knelt.

I believe Flea Bottom would work on Joff as his text is not active when in hand so no immunity applies.

LMB is more difficult, the FAQ tells us that when a card's type changes it becomes that type only until whatever effect changed it wears off.

I would suggest that Joffery could respond based on the timing structure, when you go to trigger Joff's response a character has been knelt (the fact that it was a location until it was knelt may not apply as the timing for the response would resolve with LMB as a character).

I base this on a few observations of other rulings, the faq one that i can quickly think of that seems most applicable is the bolton refuge and the dreadfort when winterfel castle is in play. (although i acknowledge that winterfell occurs as a passive effect)

Im sure Ktom or other more knowledgeable people will be able to correct me :)

I believe Flea Bottom would work on Joff as his text is not active when in hand so no immunity applies.

Correct. Joff isn't immune until he's in play, so you can use triggered reducers to play him. Further, he enters play knelt for Flea Bottom because this condition is also imposed before he is actually in play.

I base this on a few observations of other rulings, the faq one that i can quickly think of that seems most applicable is the bolton refuge and the dreadfort when winterfel castle is in play. (although i acknowledge that winterfell occurs as a passive effect)

This is the principle, though not necessarily the clearest example for the LMB situation. The general rule is that the play restrictions for a Response are checked at the time the Response is triggered, not locked in when the response opportunity is created.

The example is this: say I bring a copy of a unique character out of Shadows, which then enters play as a dupe on the copy I already have in play. I could then trigger an "after a card comes out of Shadows" response, but I could not trigger an "after a character comes out of Shadows" or "after a character enters play" response because, even though it was a card with the character type that came out of Shadows and entered play, it is a dupe by the time I trigger the response. Same deal with LMB. It was a card with the location type that knelt, but it is a character by the time I trigger the response.

thanks both of you ....

It really helps to know that it is the status at the time of the response and not the status at the time of the trigger that the response is to

How does this work with something like a Reinforcement event card - which becomes an army

Can someone still trigger the respone on Priestess of the Pyre?

I'd assume not as at the time of the response, there is no event card that has been played, it is a character (though it is a passive action and not a response, which might be different?)

If it is Summer, stand Priestess of the Pyre each time an event card is played. If it is Winter, kneel Priestess of the Pyre each time an event card is played.

How does this work with something like a Reinforcement event card - which becomes an army

Can someone still trigger the respone on Priestess of the Pyre?

This is a little nuanced, but yes, you can. The action was to play an event, even though a character enters play as part of the resolution of the event.

It looks like something of an exception to the "status at the time of the response" rule, but it's actually a little different. You play the event, and the result is effectively to put a card into play as a character. (Other games would call this a "token character.") The fact that the card/token that is put into play is the same piece of cardboard as the event doesn't really change the fact that an event was played. This is different, though subtly, from LMB - which specifically has the location participate as a character, as opposed to putting something into play as a character.