So we know the capabilities of the TIE Defender, we have the TIE Interceptor, and we've got the TIE Advanced. somewhere in the middle of all this is the TIE Avenger: The elite TIE Starfighter that never made it to mass production on the account of sabotage.

Since we're a long way from Wave 5 and I want to speculate, what does the community think an Eventual TIE Avenger will look like? What would the dial be, the stats? How are you supposed to fly it in a list, and what kind of pilots would it carry and what would they do?

Spitwading it out here for the community. I'm interested in what other people think

They would most likely give you a standard TIE Advanced with some new paintjob, then give you a title card that says "TIE Avenger", and most likely pack it together with the Ywing as the "Yavin Aces"

Honestly, the Avenger looks a lot like the advanced. It was fast though, not quite as good as a defender, but still better than an advanced. Also, it would have better primary firepower, given that the avenger has 4 laser cannons and a missile launcher compared to the Advance's 2 cannons.

Other than those, we'd probably see the same stats.

You could take one spin on it and add the tractor beam or jamming beam device from TIE Fighter to it, and that would make quite a difference. The tractor beam would force a ship to move in a straight line at whatever speed they were heading when they got hit, and would remain that way as long as the enemy ship stayed in the tractor ship's sights.

Sounds like an overly powerful mechanic, but it sure would make some interesting playing.

The jamming beam prevent target lock, which would be pretty self explanatory in this game. Maybe add an extra evade die...

Shipping Rebel and Imperials together? Each pack delivered with one ship destroyed and the surviving pilot cards smiling...

I don't think they're going to do the Avenger. It lies between the Advanced and Defender and there's no design space there. That, and they've kind of pooled the Avenger's stuff into their depiction of the TIE advanced x1. Note only Vader's ship has the name of that model (TIE advanced x1) and the others have the Avenger's name (TIE advanced).

tie avanger flown by marek stelee who was KNOWN for firing PROTON ROCKETS in POINT BLANK RANGE at big ships so we will see it coming to this game dfinetly cause we have HUGE SHIPS right now ;P and the so called proton rockets. the stats of the avanger would be.

A/D/H/S

3/3/3/2 interceptor like dial with a slight touch of the advance.

3 attack cause of the quad lasers

This is what Avenger Ties look like...

Oddly, it seems that there are two sides on this community.

One side that wants to use the TIE Avenger only as a mean to get a repainted/revamped version of the current TIE Advanced.

And other side that acknowledges the TIE Advanced as a different starfighter on its own.

I'm leaning more with those on the latter side for several reasons:

First of all, the TIE 'Avenger' and the TIE Advanced don't resemble physically. Don't let anyone fool you about this. The Avenger has interceptor-like pointy wings and distinctive missile launchers. And that's without mentioning the difference in firepower of 4 lasers vs 2. It is like saying that the Z-95 and the X-wing 'are practically the same ship'.

Second, if you need to desperately use a title card to improve the TIE Advanced, the "TIE Advanced X2" title will fit your needs even better than the 'TIE Avenger' title. In fact, the TIE Advanced X2 is the true actual version that improves the TIE Advanced capabilities without truly moving onto new ship designs like the other 'advanced' series.

It happens that the 'Avenger' title was tailored for that craft precisely to avoid any confusion with Vader's TIE Advanced. Yet people seem bent on confusing both ships.

tie avanger flown by marek stelee who was KNOWN for firing PROTON ROCKETS in POINT BLANK RANGE at big ships so we will see it coming to this game dfinetly cause we have HUGE SHIPS right now ;P and the so called proton rockets. the stats of the avanger would be.

A/D/H/S

3/3/3/2 interceptor like dial with a slight touch of the advance.

3 attack cause of the quad lasers

Yes, I'd also go for:

3-3-3-2 or 3-3-2-3

Missile Slot, Beam Weapon slot.

Focus, TL, Evade, BR

What design space is left for the Avenger?

I don't think they're going to do the Avenger. It lies between the Advanced and Defender and there's no design space there. That, and they've kind of pooled the Avenger's stuff into their depiction of the TIE advanced x1. Note only Vader's ship has the name of that model (TIE advanced x1) and the others have the Avenger's name (TIE advanced).

I strongly agree with this. The Advanced is 2/3/3/2 and the Defender is 3/3/3/3, and it's going to be really hard to find a way to situate a unique and interesting ship between those two positions.

Honestly, I think the TIE Defender's stats are solid evidence that we're not getting a TIE Avenger.

You forget about the beam weapons - its not ALL about stats

Meh, I think there is some room. The Avenger would definitely have differences from both ships other than stats. Obviously, no white K-turn. And probably a few green banks. And of course, the unique pilots could have special roles. I don't imagine it is high on the list, but I would like to see an Avenger.

I don't think they're going to do the Avenger. It lies between the Advanced and Defender and there's no design space there. That, and they've kind of pooled the Avenger's stuff into their depiction of the TIE advanced x1. Note only Vader's ship has the name of that model (TIE advanced x1) and the others have the Avenger's name (TIE advanced).

I strongly agree with this. The Advanced is 2/3/3/2 and the Defender is 3/3/3/3, and it's going to be really hard to find a way to situate a unique and interesting ship between those two positions.

Honestly, I think the TIE Defender's stats are solid evidence that we're not getting a TIE Avenger.

It would apear that the new Star Wars Rebels villain will pilot an Advanced. You can bet the bank a wave will be based on this series. The Advanced day of reckoning is nigh!

Ooh, AT-AR...

tie avanger flown by marek stelee who was KNOWN for firing PROTON ROCKETS in POINT BLANK RANGE at big ships so we will see it coming to this game dfinetly cause we have HUGE SHIPS right now ;P and the so called proton rockets. the stats of the avanger would be.

A/D/H/S

3/3/3/2 interceptor like dial with a slight touch of the advance.

3 attack cause of the quad lasers

Yes, I'd also go for:

3-3-3-2 or 3-3-2-3

Missile Slot, Beam Weapon slot.

Focus, TL, Evade, BR

Plenty of room for the avenger design. And I think it will be much of what is stated above. It's going to be an improved missile platform, with a possible beam weapon utility. Dial between advanced and interceptor.

However I rather see it as a 3-3-2-2 ship with just a missile slot, focus, TL, BR a dial slightly better then the advanced and be slightly cheaper cost then an interceptor. And this would be a very popular ship and a cheap durable missile platform.

It'll be interesting to see how they reconcile naming the Inquisitor's TIE "Advanced" when Vader's TIE (an obviously -very- different ship even if you throw out all the EU for it) is already considered a TIE Advanced.

I do hope (and expect) (at least) a wave based on Rebels comes out. Would love this TIE with the curved wings... Would love the Ghost. I'm sure there's plenty of other great ships (including huge Imperial ships) that would fit the game perfectly.

I don't think they're going to do the Avenger. It lies between the Advanced and Defender and there's no design space there. That, and they've kind of pooled the Avenger's stuff into their depiction of the TIE advanced x1. Note only Vader's ship has the name of that model (TIE advanced x1) and the others have the Avenger's name (TIE advanced).

I strongly agree with this. The Advanced is 2/3/3/2 and the Defender is 3/3/3/3, and it's going to be really hard to find a way to situate a unique and interesting ship between those two positions.

Honestly, I think the TIE Defender's stats are solid evidence that we're not getting a TIE Avenger.

This seems to be a poor argument to me.

The difference between a TIE Interceptor and a TIE fighter is +1 Attack and a better dial.

And no one complains that they are too similar to be worth having both.

So a theoretical TIE Avenger could be exactly the same difference from the Advanced and still be worthwhile. Give it +1 Attack and a somewhat better dial. And you have a slightly different ship that will play as differently from the Advanced as the Interceptor does from the Fighter.

How is that not enough design space?

I don't think they're going to do the Avenger. It lies between the Advanced and Defender and there's no design space there. That, and they've kind of pooled the Avenger's stuff into their depiction of the TIE advanced x1. Note only Vader's ship has the name of that model (TIE advanced x1) and the others have the Avenger's name (TIE advanced).

I strongly agree with this. The Advanced is 2/3/3/2 and the Defender is 3/3/3/3, and it's going to be really hard to find a way to situate a unique and interesting ship between those two positions.

Honestly, I think the TIE Defender's stats are solid evidence that we're not getting a TIE Avenger.

This seems to be a poor argument to me.

The difference between a TIE Interceptor and a TIE fighter is +1 Attack and a better dial.

And no one complains that they are too similar to be worth having both.

So a theoretical TIE Avenger could be exactly the same difference from the Advanced and still be worthwhile. Give it +1 Attack and a somewhat better dial. And you have a slightly different ship that will play as differently from the Advanced as the Interceptor does from the Fighter.

How is that not enough design space?

The TIE fighter is a cheap swarmer that makes up for its fraily with numbers. The Interceptor is a highly maneuverable arc-dodger that makes up for its frailty by not getting shot in the first place. The Defender is a high speed heavy jouster than has turning issues. None are just scalings of the other. FFG doesn't like minor tweaks, they like each ship to have its own playstyle and so far they all do. What is the Avenger's niche?

You say that a 3/3/3/2 Advanced with a better dial is a ship in its own right. Which dial? Give it a Defender type dial and it's a Defender that's been hit. Give it an Interceptor dial and you've just got a Royal Guard TIE with Hull and Shield upgrades, pretty much.

Give the TIE "Avenger" two new upgrades: Beam Weapon and Rockets. Maybe throw in a System upgrade, too.

Give it Focus, Evade and Barrel Roll for actions. Maybe Target Lock, too.

Give it a dial similar to the TIE Interceptor, but give it green 1 banks and put its koigran turns on 2 and 4 instead of 3 and 5.

Give it the 3 Hull and 2 Shields of a TIE Advanced, the 3 Attack of the TIE Interceptor, and 4 Evade to emphasize how good it is at being a supermaneuverable dogfighter.

Boom, you have a new ship.

I don't think they're going to do the Avenger. It lies between the Advanced and Defender and there's no design space there. That, and they've kind of pooled the Avenger's stuff into their depiction of the TIE advanced x1. Note only Vader's ship has the name of that model (TIE advanced x1) and the others have the Avenger's name (TIE advanced).

I strongly agree with this. The Advanced is 2/3/3/2 and the Defender is 3/3/3/3, and it's going to be really hard to find a way to situate a unique and interesting ship between those two positions.

Honestly, I think the TIE Defender's stats are solid evidence that we're not getting a TIE Avenger.

This seems to be a poor argument to me.

The difference between a TIE Interceptor and a TIE fighter is +1 Attack and a better dial.

And no one complains that they are too similar to be worth having both.

So a theoretical TIE Avenger could be exactly the same difference from the Advanced and still be worthwhile. Give it +1 Attack and a somewhat better dial. And you have a slightly different ship that will play as differently from the Advanced as the Interceptor does from the Fighter.

How is that not enough design space?

The TIE fighter is a cheap swarmer that makes up for its fraily with numbers. The Interceptor is a highly maneuverable arc-dodger that makes up for its frailty by not getting shot in the first place. The Defender is a high speed heavy jouster than has turning issues. None are just scalings of the other. FFG doesn't like minor tweaks, they like each ship to have its own playstyle and so far they all do. What is the Avenger's niche?

You say that a 3/3/3/2 Advanced with a better dial is a ship in its own right. Which dial? Give it a Defender type dial and it's a Defender that's been hit. Give it an Interceptor dial and you've just got a Royal Guard TIE with Hull and Shield upgrades, pretty much.

I remember pretty much the same arguments used against the Defender.

None are just scalings of the other. FFG doesn't like minor tweaks, they like each ship to have its own playstyle and so far they all do. What is the Avenger's niche?

I don't really know what FFG's preferences are but I hope that is true. It is nice not simply to have the same ship with a different paint job or figure.

Different ships, different play, different builds, more variety...

I don't think they're going to do the Avenger. It lies between the Advanced and Defender and there's no design space there. That, and they've kind of pooled the Avenger's stuff into their depiction of the TIE advanced x1. Note only Vader's ship has the name of that model (TIE advanced x1) and the others have the Avenger's name (TIE advanced).

I strongly agree with this. The Advanced is 2/3/3/2 and the Defender is 3/3/3/3, and it's going to be really hard to find a way to situate a unique and interesting ship between those two positions.

Honestly, I think the TIE Defender's stats are solid evidence that we're not getting a TIE Avenger.

This seems to be a poor argument to me.

The difference between a TIE Interceptor and a TIE fighter is +1 Attack and a better dial.

And no one complains that they are too similar to be worth having both.

So a theoretical TIE Avenger could be exactly the same difference from the Advanced and still be worthwhile. Give it +1 Attack and a somewhat better dial. And you have a slightly different ship that will play as differently from the Advanced as the Interceptor does from the Fighter.

How is that not enough design space?

The TIE fighter is a cheap swarmer that makes up for its fraily with numbers. The Interceptor is a highly maneuverable arc-dodger that makes up for its frailty by not getting shot in the first place. The Defender is a high speed heavy jouster than has turning issues. None are just scalings of the other. FFG doesn't like minor tweaks, they like each ship to have its own playstyle and so far they all do. What is the Avenger's niche?

You say that a 3/3/3/2 Advanced with a better dial is a ship in its own right. Which dial? Give it a Defender type dial and it's a Defender that's been hit. Give it an Interceptor dial and you've just got a Royal Guard TIE with Hull and Shield upgrades, pretty much.

Hybridizing the Interceptor and the Advanced, with unique upgrades and everything really works well.

Folks, there is plenty of design space in this game.

I seem to recall a lot of people being convinced there was no design space for the Defender without adding some new kind of dice. Those people were wrong. A lot of us knew it at the time and said so. I'm saying it again so we don't forget how wrong they were and how strongly they asserted that new ships couldn't show up without new dice.

The Avenger is distinct in both look and capability. The game designers have proven that they are willing to heighten or ignore certain aspects of a ship (as we know it from video games and RPGs and whatever else) in order to give it a unique (if not altogether useful) place in the game. I'm sure they'll do the same for any ship they want to release.