I am preparing for my first tournament in a couple weeks. Like most gamers, this means I'm making list after list trying to decide what I'd like to fly to have a shot at winning a few games. I'm aware that the best list is the one I know best, but I honestly don't have enough games under my belt to say I know any list best. Anyway, the reason for the post:

When you are building your lists, are you typically thinking about what's popular and what you can do to combat that? Are you typically trying to make a balanced list that can do several things at an average level, or a focused list that does one thing really well? I feel like my background may be clouding my judgement and leading to me over the process. In 40k, I made sure I included tools specifically to deal with popular problems, and in Warmachine I tooled my lists to do one thing extremely well. The approaches were different for the different systems, and each worked in its own way. I keep applying these thoughts to X-Wing, more so the 40k mentality. Swarms are good? I need to squeeze in some Assault Missiles then! Double Falcons is pretty popular? Hmmm, maybe I should NOT be playing 2+ Interceptors then...

TL;DR - Do you build lists with specific opponents in mind? Do you simply build a list you enjoy? Are there any "requirements" when list building? Thanks for the insight all!

I am preparing for my first tournament in a couple weeks. Like most gamers, this means I'm making list after list trying to decide what I'd like to fly to have a shot at winning a few games. I'm aware that the best list is the one I know best, but I honestly don't have enough games under my belt to say I know any list best. Anyway, the reason for the post:

When you are building your lists, are you typically thinking about what's popular and what you can do to combat that? Are you typically trying to make a balanced list that can do several things at an average level, or a focused list that does one thing really well? I feel like my background may be clouding my judgement and leading to me over the process. In 40k, I made sure I included tools specifically to deal with popular problems, and in Warmachine I tooled my lists to do one thing extremely well. The approaches were different for the different systems, and each worked in its own way. I keep applying these thoughts to X-Wing, more so the 40k mentality. Swarms are good? I need to squeeze in some Assault Missiles then! Double Falcons is pretty popular? Hmmm, maybe I should NOT be playing 2+ Interceptors then...

TL;DR - Do you build lists with specific opponents in mind? Do you simply build a list you enjoy? Are there any "requirements" when list building? Thanks for the insight all!

This is going to sound incredibly trite - but I think you will understand, you seem to be putting a lot of thought into this.

Take the list that YOU personally know inside and out and can fly *nearly* perfectly regardless of the condition of the board (asteroids, enemies, etc.).

The longest story short is that you can take the List that won the world championships, but if you aren't familiar with every intricacy of it's operation, it will let you down.

Mostly what the guy above me said.

The better you know your ships (and your enemy's) the better you will do. I blew a game against the World Champ because I forgot Lambdas had a 'full stop.' So K-turning directly in front of him turned out to be a very, very poor choice.

I also like to think about what weaknesses I'm best at mitigating, and build a list that has that weakness, knowing I should be able to handle it.

First off, I exclusively play Rebels in a competitive setting. I like to assign values to different ships, and ensure that I have at least 3.5 "ship value" to begin with.

X = 1

B = 1

A = .8

Y (w/o turret) = .7

Y (w/ turret) = .8

YT (named) = 1.5

YT (ORS) = 1

HWK (named w/ turret) = .8

So by doing this, I make sure that I start with a good core before I go and specialize it. This prevents me from doing things like Tycho w/ Expose, SU, Assault Missiles + Horton w/ APT + APT + R2D2 + EU ... and a Rebel Op (which btw, doesn't have a value in my system). This puts it at 1.5 total... And while this is an extreme example, it's still a rule I live by. Note that it doesn't allow for certain builds such at WLB or dual YT though... And I find that I don't do well with those builds anyways, so it works for me, but it won't work for everyone.

From there, I typically think of what each ship is doing, and how it will best do it, and what can I give it to make sure it does it well. For example, if I started with an A wing as a prototype, I might decide I want to use it as a blocker. As such, I know that people will likely be able to get some good R1 shots off on it. So I might decide to put HU on it to make it less appealing. Or I might decide I want it to be a flanker, in which case I'll upgrade it to a Green w/ PTL so it can boost + focus.

Perhaps I have a Y wing with an Ion (because I'll never put a Blaster turret on a Y), I might go ahead and decide I want to keep it a gold so it shoots last, but maybe I would rather they shoot at the Y than the tricked out Ibby I have as well... so maybe I put an APT on the gold... Kill the Y wing that likely won't get that APT off but if he does, game over... or attack Ibby, who is dangerous on her own?

If I find myself with anyone with a target painted on his/her back (Wedge comes to mind) I like to throw Biggs in there as well, especially if I'm putting ST or PTL or anything to make that deadly character even more of a target.

And after I do the first run through on all of that, I sit back and think "who's going to be my last ship alive... who do I want to be the last ship alive... can I do something to make the two the same? Will the squad function if I lose a specific ship? Will a specific ship stop functioning well if I lose other ships?" And from there I tweak it. And then I find myself ~101-105, and I swear because removing anything breaks the entire squad from working!

Don't try to counterbuild everything. You get a mishmash of nothing. Your best bet is to build a squadron you think will adapt.

First figure out the general archetype you want.

4 ship Rebels?

3 Rebels and a Hawk?

Imperial Swarm.

Bouty Hunter Shuttle and 2 two ties.

Falcon and two fighters.

Etc...

Then build to suit what you want.

I agree with the advice of "play to you're strengths" but I ALWAYS think about two builds I might go up against. HSF and a Howlrunner lead swarm. Do I build lists just to beat those two? No, but I find them to be good measuring sticks.

I am going through the same mental wrangling over the vassal tournament; the Galactic Cup.

After speaking with some veteran players I can assure you that you are on to the right line of reasoning, being able to deal with popular lists & combinations. Without experience in how ships match up against another, which is also my problem, then it's hard to know just what to field.

I would say a few things you want your list capable of dealing with are swarms (both tie & tie bomber), falcons or dual falcons (or multiple large base ships in general), you want to be able to drop Biggs fast if you need to, and be able to deal with fast flankers like the interceptor lists that are becoming popular.

That's a lot of bases to cover in one list, and difficult to do if you have little experience. I'm kind of in the same boat, but hopefully that little bit of info can help you.

Other than that, don't be afraid to fail! X-wing is very balanced and randomness can allow the worst match ups to stand a fighting chance. Make up what your comfortable flying, learn to fly it (in formation, if appropriate), and go have at the tournament! You're sure to learn enough to make the next tournament list easier to build!

Fellow ex-40k gamer here. List building is extremely complicated, Ill try and set this out in a few points.

1-experience with a list is the most important factor in your success.

2-you can more easily transition lists if there are minimal changes. Wedge/biggs/luke to wedge/biggs/jan for instance may not require more than 1-2 practice games. WBL to tie swarm will need some time.

3-Know what your local meta features, and have some way of dealing with the more common lists and weird off shoots you'll see. Can you handle han shoots first? What about tie swarm? 3/4 high ps interceptor lists? Biggs? Ion spam?

4-Be wary of 'hard counters'. A hard counter is something that plays rock paper scissors with a certain unit/list type, but loses hard to another. Often times people try to include a hard counter to everything in their list. "well I need assault missiles to fight a tie swarm. but what if there are bwings? ion cannon then! oh and I should probably bring a hlc for a falcon." And you end up with a poorly put together list that can't do anything well.

5-The best way to success, I found, was to have a list that can do anything decently and a plan for dealing with everything you might face. This takes a long time to do though, as you have to have superb knowledge of the game. I played 40k tournaments regularly for about 3 years before I was able to do this. I could build lists in my head for armies I had never played before and what not.

6-Your list then, needs to be fairly simple. Each unit needs to be well rounded enough that it can do damage to a multitude of different types of enemies. But it shouldn't rely on any complicated flying tactics to win. The more complex your plan, the more things that can go wrong with it. Most games you lose, i mean 99% of them, will come down to a mistake you personally make. Your opponent just made less, that's why they won. So have something reliable and well rounded, and try to out fly your opponent. I recommend something fairly simple, like 2x2b or 3b1ors. Can handle anything, and isn't overly complicated to fly.

7-Fly casual. The best thing about these tournaments, I am finding, is the low levels of prize support. When you **** up on the top table in the last round, and lose out on a $100 store gift certificate, it hurts. When you lose, at least locally for xwing, it means you don't get some tokens or whatever. You can pretty much always have fun, assuming your opponent isnt a complete ******* or sperglord. You can't always win though.

Most has been said in earlier posts but here is my 2 cts anyhow:

-Pick a ship/pilot you *really* like.

(and is not terrible preferably. Like the Tie Advanced with PS1 or somesuch)

My last (and first for that matter) X-Wing tournament was easy; I *had* to include Soontir Fel.

After that decision I build the rest around this 'core' decision with flexibility in mind.

Flexibility to beat anything thrown at me (flown at me?)

Most notably; B-Wing spam and Tie Swarms.

With an answer to these two builds in my head I playtest a few games and go up and at em!

Adjust/tweak according to the results of these playtests and enjoy the process.

I personally Like to build list that do one thing really well......Let the other guys worry about you!

List Optimization is trivial, when compared to the power of the force your ability to get the most out of it.

That being said, if you have time to practice a potentially new fleet, then you can start analyzing the meta-games.

The trick here is to focus on gaining an advantage on the top two or three archetypes in your area, and also to have an advantage against an approximate mirror-match.

But I shall reiterate: DEFINITELY make sure you're overly familiar with the ins and outs of your fleet.

Thanks for all the input! I wish I had more games under my belt, so I could say I was truly comfortable with any fleet. I think I've narrowed it down to two, which I will get as many games with as a can. As you'll see, I am sort of stuck on the idea of bringing Assault Missiles to hurt swarms...

Dupes & Squints

2 x Gamma Squadron w/ Assault Missiles, Seismic Charge

2 x Royal Guard Pilot w/ PTL

...or...

Howl Brought a Bomb

2 x Gamma Squadron w/ Assault Missiles

Howlrunner

3 x Academy Pilot

I'm leaning the Dupes & Squints route, seems like more fun. Is it more effective to use different ordinance against swarms? Not sure if using Assault Missiles to chip away or something stronger to go for a one-shot is smarter... Anyway, thanks again for your advice, hopefully I can make something happen!

If you're dead set on AMs, I might switch one pair out for something like Cluster Missiles (which are great against low agi ships).

This is sort-of off topic, but I think it might help you in your overall gameplay.

One thing I see a lot of "new" people do *very* poorly at is flying through obstacles/ships/tight spaces. If I see someone bump their ships unintentionally early in the game, I will do my best to force them into uncomfortable flying arrangements from then on.

I've seen many a ship and game won/lost on loss of actions or and I've seen more than one ship destroyed from an asteroid collision.

Something that helped me TREMENDOUSLY when I was first starting:

Set your ships on the board amidst as many asteroids or other obstructions you can muster that are appropriately sized. Practice flying your ships one by one through the mess, and then do it while maintaining a formation as best as possible.

Also, try flying a formation in a circle around an object.

Then -

Set up the same mess as before, only this time sprinkle some decoy opponent ships into the mix. If you are flying rebels, practice flying your ships into firing arc without getting caught by the decoys arc.If you want a real challenge, rotate the decoys 45 or 90 degrees towards your ships each turn.

I realize that while static - this is not hyper-realistic for actual gameplay, but it will however hone your piloting with your chosen list as well as get you in the mindset of avoiding the firing arcs when possible.

It's also a good way to practice by yourself since flying both sides is kind of inane, as it's impossible to set maneuver dials without thinking about what you just told the other team to do.

Of course, the best practice is to just play the game against someone better than you, which can be difficult, especially if none of your friends play.