Julia,

Here are a pair of questions ~ I don't believe have been asked before ~ from a game we finished a few minutes ago against Abhoth...who I find particularly nasty.

- As we played with the expansion, Unseen Forces, does satisfying the Task during Final Battle free someone from a Curse? My gut says "no" but I figured that this has occured for others, as well.

- Do any Locked dice become Unlocked during Final Battle?

Abhoth is particularly nasty because at Midlight one of his dreaded Children hit an Adventure card, which takes your attention away from garnering Elder Signs to defeating them. Additionally, as a second Curse (and they all Curse the Investigator defeating them) causes the Investigator to be devoured, Abhoth makes for a challenging Ancient One.

As a follow-up to an earlier question regarding Locked dice becoming Unlocked while resolving Tasks on an Adventure card...it would seem to me that the rules for Unlocking dice should track with a Curse or Blessing for an Investigator while resolving Tasks on an Adventure card.

Thus, if you first defeat a Child of Abhoth on an Adventure card first before attempting any of the other Tasks, you are immediately Cursed for the balance of your turn. It stands to reason that if you defeat a Monster, Locking a die on an Adventure card before attempting any other Tasks, the die should be readily available once the Investigator defeats the Monster.

Ciao,

Joe

Hi Joe

Thanks for the questions. I just finished an Abhoth game (5 minutes ago)! What a coincidence!

1. Any curse is discarded when the AO awakens (Unseen Forces rules, pag 3, left column, under "Discarding a Cursed Card"). So, unless there's an effect that curses you during Final Battle (but I'm not aware of none), you don't have to worry about curses

2. When the AO awakens, all adventure cards, OW cards and monster markers in play are discarded (Revised Rulebook, pag. 18). All dice that are locked on these cards are discarded for the rest of the game. Please note that dice that are locked on Mythos cards are not discarded, but immediately freed.

3. Dice are not made available when dice locking monsters are defeated. This will hopefully made clear once and for all when the next FAQ is out, but for now you can reference it at pag. 17 of the Revised Rulebook, second paragraph under "Completing a monster task"

Hope this helps

JULIA

Julia,

That is awesome ~ what are the chances ~ thank you for the reply, as I almost wrote to you directly, but thought...maybe these are worthy of community involvement.

For 1 and 2, I'm absolutely clear, but 3. seems a bit peculiar to me to have one set of rules for Dice and one for Curses. Anyway, we were utterly defeated...only Bob Jenkins remained alive, albeit Cursed (before I knew that he shouldn't have been) going into Final Battle with enough items, Adventure Cards, and Trophies to see him through for a few rounds...but in the end, for nought.

What a great coincidence!

Ciao,

Joe

Agreed, 3 is peculiar. Especially if you consider that the dice pool is dynamic: you are allowed to use at any time during your resolution phase items to add dice to the pool (with the usual specific, id est, no more than 1 yellow / red die per Resolution Phase). Still, even if I'm pretty sure of the answer, let's wait for what the FAQ will say.

Here's one for Unseen Forces.

Let's say you are blessed, and you fail an adventure with a curse penalty. Normally, when you receive a curse while blessed, the two cancel out; i.e., the curse takes away your blessing. This would leave you neither blessed nor cursed. However, the rules state that when you fail an adventure (any adventure, even one without a curse penalty), you lose your blessing.

What I'm thinking is that you first lose the blessing for failing the adventure (so now you are no longer blessed). Then the curse penalty kicks in and you are cursed. Am I playing this right?

The opposite would work when you start out cursed, then succeed at an adventure that has a blessed reward. That is, first you discard the curse for completing the adventure. Then you receive the blessing, and you take the blessed card.

Thanks for reading, and I hope the new FAQ comes out soon!

Interesting question. That's my reading too: penalties and rewards are triggered as consequence of failing / succeeding at an adventure, so you first resolve the condition (discard the blessing or the curse) and then you apply the following condition.

Still, that's just my reading and the wording used is not so sound.

Thanks for pointing this out

I've got one more, Julia. The Dread Curse of Azathoth spell allows a player to secure two dice. Do these dice both need to be secured at the same time? Or can I secure one die on one roll, then roll again and secure a second die?

And if I secure only one die with the spell during an entire turn, can I use the other space on the spell on a later turn to secure a second die? Especially if I removed the first die from the card and used it?

I entered this question some months ago in the draft for the FAQ No official answer so far, but I can share the way I think it should be played:

- if the idea was to allow players to store one die now and one die later, then certainly sooner or later people will start saying "hey, I never used both slots so far" (not necessarily because they are cheating, but simply because possibly they forgot using a die if several rounds passed since the casting of the spell)

- hence, the spell should read "upon casting, place up to two dice you just rolled...". If you decide to use only one slot, then the second one is lost. As soon as there are no dice on the card, you discard it, as per normal spell rules.

I entered this question some months ago in the draft for the FAQ No official answer so far, but I can share the way I think it should be played:

- if the idea was to allow players to store one die now and one die later, then certainly sooner or later people will start saying "hey, I never used both slots so far" (not necessarily because they are cheating, but simply because possibly they forgot using a die if several rounds passed since the casting of the spell)

- hence, the spell should read "upon casting, place up to two dice you just rolled...". If you decide to use only one slot, then the second one is lost. As soon as there are no dice on the card, you discard it, as per normal spell rules.

Thanks for the swift response! Someone on BoardGameGeek said the same thing, so that's how I'll play it.

Good to know also others interpreted this issue in the same way, sounds like a safe way to play until we'll have an official ruling

I've been thinking perhaps too hard about this game, but here are a few more questions.

1) I seem to remember reading a ruling on this somewhere, but I can't find it offhand. There is a mythos card that allows the investigators to discard all adventure cards, other world cards and monsters in play, and replace them with 6 new adventure cards. Now, Shudde M'ell as the ancient one has the effect of discarding failed adventure cards without replacing them. If you fail and therefore discard all of them, you lose. I was playing a game where a few cards had been failed and discarded, and then the aforementioned mythos card came up. I discarded the remaining adventure cards and then put 6 new ones out (rather than only 4 new ones, as Shudde M'ell had caused two of them to go away). Am I playing this right? If so, the mythos card is a lifesaver that lets you start over with 6 adventure cards against Shudde M'ell.

2) My next question is about Jenny Barnes. If she wants to discard something to gain the red and yellow dice, she does so at the start of her resolution phase. Here's the situation. The red die is locked. Jenny has a unique item (the Necronomicon) that gives the red die and one clue token. What I want to do is use the Necronomicon to get the clue token (can't take the red die since it's locked). THEN, I want to discard that clue token to gain the yellow die as per her power. The question is, once she uses the Necronomicon to get the clue token, is it considered to still be the "start of her resolution phase?" Or does she have to wait until her next turn to discard the clue token to get the yellow die?

3) Also, and this was answered on BGG, but I want to be sure - when Dexter Drake buys a spell, does he receive two spells? The same goes for Bob Jenkins buying a common item or Monterey (forget his last name) buying unique items.

4) And one more, while I have your attention. Some cards say to use after rolling to discard a monster in play. But if you go to the museum entrance, you aren't rolling any dice (except at the lost and found). So, if you want to go to the souvenir shop, can you still use the card "after rolling" to discard a monster? Or do you actually have to go to an adventure card to use it? Edit: The same question goes for the spell (Greater Banishment) that lets you get rid of three monsters "before rolling."

Edit: Just thought of one more. Are spells considered "items?" When Abhoth attacks, investigators have to discard a combination of 3 trophies and/or items or be devoured. Can you discard two trophies and a spell? Or must you only discard common and unique items? I would tend to think that spells are not items, but it would be nice to have an official ruling.

Thanks for taking the time to read all of this!

Okay I need to check some stuff, and I'm at work now. I'll return to this in hopefully 12 hours. Hope you can wait

Thanks as always Julia. And here's another one, and it might be a little nitpicky, but it's a question I think others will have. Ithaqua causes you to lose a stamina each time you use a spell. Jenny Barnes can discard a spell to gain the red and yellow dice. Does discarding the spell count as using it? Or can she discard it without suffering the stamina penalty?

Sorry it took me so long to return to this. I was in need for some time to dig through cards, notes and stuff. I'm gonna fraction the answers to avoid walls of text and to make answering easier. So:

1. This is an extremely well spot question. Shudde unfortunately has one of the crappiest wording in the whole Elder Sign story :-/ since there's no "time trigger" for the instant fail clause. Anyhoo, the Mythos card is "A Fresh Start / or Needed Aid", which reads:

Discard all Adventure cards, Other World cards and monster markers. Then, place 6 new Adventure cards in the play area.

If we want to ***** around a little bit, in the moment you "discard" all adventure cards and so on, you don't have any card in play, hence the game is lost. This is clearly not the designer's intention, so I'd first of all suggest consider Shudde's wording as follows (remember, this is just the way I'd play it):

If at the end of an investigator's turn or at the end of the Mythos Phase there are no Adventure or Other World cards in play, the game immediately ends and the investigators lose.

As for your true question: the card uses a very specific wording: the first sentence refers to all adventure cards while the second sentence specifies a number, place 6 new adventure cards. I think this was done on purpose: a fresh start implies you're moving to a different part of the museum, where the power of the AO is not so present and you're given a new chance to organize your forces and win the fight (thematically I imagine the adventures being discarded as the AO closing a trap on you; not as Earthquakes as in Arkham Horror because an Earthquake would destroy the whole museum and not just a single room).

Additionally, there are some other game effects that instruct players to add Adventures to the play area; Shudde does not hinder you from adding adventure cards, but it eliminates the cards you fail at; if you're allowed to add stuff to the play area, then I think it's legit that you also "refresh them" thanks to this Mythos (and I do like the idea that with such a nasty AO you have a chance to restart).

In Gates of Arkham would be the same: you move to a different part of the city, where the power of the AO is not fully revealed.

(great question btw! Let me know if my answer has sense or not)

2. I read the "at the start of your resolution phase" as everything happening before you roll for the first time your dice pool. So, I'd allow Jenny to play so as long as she decides to do so before attempting the adventure. Point is that you are allowed to use items at any time during the adventure. So, let's say you start rolling without using the Necronomicon and you pass the first task. Then you fail twice the second task and decide you need to add a die. While playing the Necronomicon to gain red and clue would be a legit move (if the red die wasn't locked, clearly, otherwise it's just the clue), saying "ok, let's use the Necro, spend the clue to add the yellow die" wouldn't be legit. But as long as it's done before you start attempting the adventure, I'd say it's ok.

I added a line to my addenda file with this question, tho, so that in case I've been given a chance, I'll add it to the list of questions requiring an official answer.

3. Dexter's ability says that you receive one extra when you gain something. Gaining can be done in two ways: by passing an adventure and thus gaining a reward, or by spending trophies and thus gaining the items at the entrance. So, yes, I think it's a perfectly legit move to gain two by paying for one (same for Bob)

4. I wouldn't say so (and neither for the rolls at the Lost and Found). Many here believes it's odd that you can be at one adventure and kill monsters on another one; I'm fine with that, but hey you must at least be at an adventure (again, that's my reading and yes, those cards have a bad wording)

As per Ithaqua: discarding is not using. You use a spell when you cast it and you put die (dice) on it; if you discard it to gain dice is not using it. As a general rule of the thumb, I intend the word "using" as "using the item for its original purpose: hence, resolving its special text or special ability". If an effect forces you to discard stuff, you're not using it. This will be somehow reinforced in the coming GoA, where you'll have some adventures forcing you to discard items: by no means this will trigger Ithaqua's ability

Thanks for taking the time to answer!

If you use "Greater Banishment" to discard a monster and it has a locked die on it, does that die become available to the dice pool for you to use during your turn? I think this is a different situation from when you use an item or spell to defeat a monster.

Yep, thanks. Indeed, there are some troubles on how the dynamic dice pool is actually modified during gameplay

The Souvenir shop entrance card from Unseen Forces states that you can buy 2 items.

Can you buy two of the same items (ie 2 clues) or does it mean you can buy up to two different class of items only.

If you can buy two of the same class of items then how does it work with Patrice Hathaways ability to gain an extra clue whenever she gains a clue during her turn.

For example:

She spends one trophy to buy a clue at the entrance and therefore gains an extra clue. She then spends another trophy to buy another clue and again gains an extra clue for a total of 4 clues received.

Is this an allowed action?

That's interesting. I don't see anything allowing you not to buy two of the same type. But I'd give Patrice a total of 3 clues (her action allows her to gain 2 by buying twice the same option, it's not two different actions each of them giving her 1 clue).

Just my reading, tho

Hi there from Peru, i have some question, dont know if they have already been asked, if so, sorry for repeat

1.- Mythos card says: "the next......add 1 doom token for each open gate."

in the box we get 6 gate markers in 3 colors, each gate marker is considered a "open gate?" or only the ones on the "other worlds cards"?, so when there are the 6 "gate markers" on play and the Mythos strikes, (if i´m correct) only 3 doom tokens will be added? (cuz a "open gate" is ONLY the ones on "other worlds"

To make this more fun, i was playing the game the opposite way, (adding 6 doom tokens if the 6 markers where on play) and even playing against Yog on GoA, and believe it or not, you can win jeje.


2.- Mythos card says: "the next......each inv must discard all his adventure trophies".

In the ES rulebook it says that trophies is the currency in Elder, and there are Adeventure trophies and Monster trophies. Also it says that "other world cards" are "special adventures" (so they are considered ADVENTURES but in a special kind)

So the Mythos will discard ALL (normal adv and other world ones?) or just the "normal adventures"?, if we go strict with the Reading, i will say both, becouse it says "adventure" and normal and OW cards are adventures........but if so.....this is a pain while battling Yog (on GoA).

As a anecdote, i was playing with 2 investigators agains Yog, one have 3 OW cards in her trophies, and the other 2, and then, that mythos appeared.....so i doubt what to do, discard all o just normal adv, the clock was 2 turns for mid, and the Yog (of GoA) was 5 doom tokens to break free......so to put it more harder, i went to and adventure with terror (terror: add a doom token) so i roll 5 times and declare fail all and make sure i get a terror, so i added 4 doom tokens and the declared failed the adv, and the penalties was "add a doom token" so Yog complete his 10 needed and break free.

So as rules says the game move to the clock phase and the Mythos is discarded, so no "discard adv trophies" and i fight Yog and win (with luck.....). Hope i was doing all right.

1. Opening a gate implies using two gate markers. You add a doom per gate open, not per gate marker, so the max doom you can add is 3

2. The way the word "adventure" is used in core ES honestly sucks so hard that it'll create problems throughout eternity. As for your query, you discard both Arkham and OW adventures

And yes, you played it correctly. Just remember that if the AO wakes up at Midnight, you resolve his attack immediately before starting final combat