So I just finished playing a game on Vassal. I was fielding:

Luke: R2D2, Shield Upgrade, Draw Their Fire

Wedge: Shield Upgrade

Biggs: Shield Upgrade

My opponent had:

Dagger Squadron Pilot x3: Heavy Laser Cannon x3, Fire-Control System x3

Basically it was somewhat even but I felt as if I was getting my face smashed in by him getting to roll 4 dice at range 2-3 and the re-rolling as many dice as he wanted with his FCS. The amount of dice this build put onto the board was insane. He was also getting really good rolls to boot.

My question is simple: the entire time he had me target-locked. If he already had me target-locked and decided to use his FCS, does he remove the target-lock token? He always kept it on, claiming they are two separate things. He basically got to target lock me whenever he attacked.

I truly felt there was something amiss in this game. Maybe it was due to the fact I am still new to X-Wing, but I felt his build gave him an insane amount of dice coupled with amazing movement from the B-Wings coupled with insane shields.

Either way, I will definitely be trying out his build in a tournament in the future. Absolutely ridiculous.

(Though I did manage to knock out two of his ships and got his final ship down to 3 hull pts). It just wasn't enough to save me.

Can anyone shed some light on his build? I feel it is super strong. Cheers!

The FCS gives a target lock after an attack, but that target lock is normal in every way. Can only maintain one, spend it if you want to reroll, etc.

What it sounds like is he was firing, using his lock, and the reacquiring a new one after the attack. That's perfectly legal.

It's a solid build, to be sure, but it doesn't sound like your opponent was doing anything wrong.

Edit: As for beating it, you've got a solid PS advantage, and should honestly have a decent shot at killing a B before they ever fire. Close hard and fast... At range they're throwing 4v2 to your 3v2. At range 1 it becomes 4v2 for them and 4v1 for you, and Wedge makes that 4v0. If you can maneuver in tight, you can also limit the FCS. It loses a lot of effectiveness if you have to change targets... And should probably be useless after the first round, since all the shots will be at Biggs, who probably won't survive, so wasted locks there.

I was actually talking to a friend about that exact list last night he is planning on running it at thenext event at our FLGS, the firepower is quite severe against low agility opponents

I was actually talking to a friend about that exact list last night he is planning on running it at thenext event at our FLGS, the firepower is quite severe against low agility opponents

That build itself is low agility!

I think you just may be new to the game but It sounds as if it was a close result anyway so I wouldn't get worked up about it. Just because something is good against the list you took doesn't make it all powerful. Once you play more and get better you will realise how to play against it and what other lists might be good to beat it.

As for your squad - I would look at Push the Limit on Wedge and reduce some upgrades or reduce a pilot to get a 4th ship. At the moment you have another ship in upgrades alone! A 3 ship rebel build with lots of upgrades is unforgiving if you don't play it well.

And most important of all - Fly casual and enjoy it!

So, I've been running over a list in my head I've been wanting to play that the OP might be interested in:

Luke+Marksmanship+R2-D2

Wedge+PtL+R2-F2+Engine

Biggs (or Gaven)

Luke is a tuff SOB to kill, and R2-D2 just makes it that much harder. Marksmanship is a natural fit for him. Wedge kills stuff, but draws a lot of attention. Biggs can help with this, but I like the idea of PtL and R2-F2 helping in the defense department.

The tough choice is Gaven or Biggs. Biggs is your defensive choice, but I'm not sure he's needed with Luke and Wedge beefed up the way they are here.

So I just finished playing a game on Vassal.

Can anyone shed some light on his build? I feel it is super strong. Cheers!

Regardless, I think the key here is asteroid placement. Normally, when you play WLB, you place an asteroid to ensure Biggs is behind it and @R3 for the initial round of shooting (wedge & luke are closer but R1 w/ biggs of course). But against HLC, being R3 is a disadvantage for you. You still need that all-important asteroid placed in front of biggs for the extra evade. Your other asteroids should be placed in such a way to break up his formation so that ideally, only 2 can shoot biggs and the 3rd has to shoot at a different ship (preferably luke, but you can't always control that).

My suggestion is you practice asteroid placement more by opening a game on vassal against yourself. Its not a real match obviously, just to try different deployments, opening moves and trying to set up that first volley in a way that gives you all of your ships a shot on same target and your opponent unable to do the same.

Because really, WLB have the same attack to defense dice ratio as 3 b's w/ HLC have against you, so from a math-standpoint, those are somewhat even (FCS gives him action economy advantage, however).

If you want to get a 'leg up' in actions, Push the Limit + R2 is great on Wedge (engine upgrade a nice bonus if you can fit it in). With that, wedge is focused + target lock almost all the time (which almost guarantees 3 hits, or 4 @R1) because b's have no evade dice against him (unless behind asteroid or @R3).

I played that same squad on vassal a few days ago and got a beat down as well. Bwings with fcs are annoying enough, but with hlc to shoot 4 dice everytime? Brutal

It's definetly beatable as it's only 3 ships, and they are all 1 evade ships with 24 total hit points. I would have had a shot as I had 1 bwing hanging by a thread after the first round of attacks, but picked the wrong move and got in a bad position for the second round of attacks and took too much damage to continue and have a shot at winning.

For starters, I think you could simply drop the shield upgrades and go with hull upgrades. Then, put PTL on Wedge. I think the key to your list is making sure all Xwings survive RD 1, which will mean keeping Biggs behind an asteroid. Then, zoom in for R1 and finish of a Bwing. If you are going to lose Biggs R1, it needs to be because you put yourself in a position to clean out one of the Bwings and managed to slip into R1 immediately.

I'm not sure I agree with keeping Biggs behind a rock against the 3B + FCS + HLC list. The advantage WLB have is their high PS over the Blue Bwings. Biggs needs to get a shot in, and a good one. Wedge with PTL (TL+F) should get 3 shields off. That leaves 5 more hits between Luke and Biggs that you need to get. It's doable, but it's never going to happen if Biggs is hiding behind a rock. Best case you get the 5 hits more from Luke and Biggs and take out 1 Bwing before it ever shoots. Hopefully if you don't get all 5 hits you can get a Blinded Pilot or Munitions failure crit on it. It's unlikely Wedge and Luke will take down a Bwing by themselves, and even Biggs behind a rock against HLCs is going to be 12 reds v 9 greens. That should be about 6 unmodified hits v 3 unmodified evades. At least 2 of the Bwings should have a focus, so I wouldn't expect Biggs to survive the HLC onslaught. Biggs will almost always die in the first exchange, so I think you need to maximize his only attack.

The game itself is setup to favor offense over defense. 3 HLC Bwings is a totally offensive list. I think you need to meet a hammer like that with another hammer. There is no anvil strong enough in this game to reliably weather that storm.

But, my strategy isn't the only one that could work. With 3 ships, I just can't see hiding one and potentially not getting a shot at all with Biggs. Shrug.

I agree with Rinehart. Against a list like this, playing the normal hiding games with Biggs is not a good idea. You've actually got more offensive capability at he right ranges, just have to use it.

So I just finished playing a game on Vassal. I was fielding:

Luke: R2D2, Shield Upgrade, Draw Their Fire

Wedge: Shield Upgrade

Biggs: Shield Upgrade

My opponent had:

Dagger Squadron Pilot x3: Heavy Laser Cannon x3, Fire-Control System x3

Basically it was somewhat even but I felt as if I was getting my face smashed in by him getting to roll 4 dice at range 2-3 and the re-rolling as many dice as he wanted with his FCS. The amount of dice this build put onto the board was insane. He was also getting really good rolls to boot.

My question is simple: the entire time he had me target-locked. If he already had me target-locked and decided to use his FCS, does he remove the target-lock token? He always kept it on, claiming they are two separate things. He basically got to target lock me whenever he attacked.

I truly felt there was something amiss in this game. Maybe it was due to the fact I am still new to X-Wing, but I felt his build gave him an insane amount of dice coupled with amazing movement from the B-Wings coupled with insane shields.

Either way, I will definitely be trying out his build in a tournament in the future. Absolutely ridiculous.

(Though I did manage to knock out two of his ships and got his final ship down to 3 hull pts). It just wasn't enough to save me.

Can anyone shed some light on his build? I feel it is super strong. Cheers!

Personally it's a solid list, but if you like B-Wings may I suggest my list

3 Blue's + Advanced Sensors

Roark + Ion Turret

I'm no where near a Vet and I don't play vassal I've only been playing for alittle less than 6 months and only about played about 8/9 games max before making this list. But since then I've gone 16 Wins to 4 Loses, 2 Store Championships and 4th place. It's not the perfect list nor am I the perfect player but I feel that 3 B-Wings are the way to go, I choose Advanced Sensors because they can very forgiving for someone new or getting used the B-wing and because I much prefer short-range it I'm prepared for inevitable bumps while most of the time my opponents suffer and Barrel-rolling before you move is amazing! Also while Target lock is nice I always because w/ PS2 I'm usually shot first so Focus gives me the flexibility that I could use it defensively to save a near-death Blue and as someone mentioned if you have to change targets it's wasted. Roark allows me to always decide who shoots first (PS12 to a Bwing), while the ion turret is great against enemy low Agility ships, like B-Wings after the first pass I neutralize them for a turn or two while my b's focus on pressing threats or I K-Turn behind and ionize them until their dead (cruel & frustrating yet effective). The Hwk's 4 Hull 2 Agility surprisingly has a higher survival rate than I first imagined. I prefer 4 ships to 3 since I have 29 hull/shield points and its less of a loss if I lose one (usually Roark will live until second round of shots while my Blue pound away for two rounds)

But by all means play both see what fits you but advice that I've learned from this list is

1) Always start in a tight formation: you can always barrel roll 3/4 of your squad if you want to avoid area/splash

2) Always focus fire on one target and finish the kill

3) Always start from a corner.

4) If you feel you have a solid list than stick with it learn the in's and outs and remember one bad game of dice doesn't mean you got a bad list. I've played exclusively with my list since I made and recently I've been able to pull off tougher victories because I know exactly what I can/can't do.

5) Play to win and your very best but always Fly Causal, plenty of people are so keep it and if not then set the example, when I'm winning I always makes jokes at my expenses, when I'm losing I always try to laugh if off (usually with jokes at my expense)

Happy Hunting

The FCS gives a target lock after an attack, but that target lock is normal in every way. Can only maintain one, spend it if you want to reroll, etc.

What it sounds like is he was firing, using his lock, and the reacquiring a new one after the attack. That's perfectly legal.

It's a solid build, to be sure, but it doesn't sound like your opponent was doing anything wrong.

Edit: As for beating it, you've got a solid PS advantage, and should honestly have a decent shot at killing a B before they ever fire. Close hard and fast... At range they're throwing 4v2 to your 3v2. At range 1 it becomes 4v2 for them and 4v1 for you, and Wedge makes that 4v0. If you can maneuver in tight, you can also limit the FCS. It loses a lot of effectiveness if you have to change targets... And should probably be useless after the first round, since all the shots will be at Biggs, who probably won't survive, so wasted locks there.

Solid Advice, last time I fought Bs I ran into with FCS I would make the target bump the lock holder then Ion them.

I'm not sure I agree with keeping Biggs behind a rock against the 3B + FCS + HLC list. The advantage WLB have is their high PS over the Blue Bwings. Biggs needs to get a shot in, and a good one. Wedge with PTL (TL+F) should get 3 shields off. That leaves 5 more hits between Luke and Biggs that you need to get. It's doable, but it's never going to happen if Biggs is hiding behind a rock. Best case you get the 5 hits more from Luke and Biggs and take out 1 Bwing before it ever shoots. Hopefully if you don't get all 5 hits you can get a Blinded Pilot or Munitions failure crit on it. It's unlikely Wedge and Luke will take down a Bwing by themselves, and even Biggs behind a rock against HLCs is going to be 12 reds v 9 greens. That should be about 6 unmodified hits v 3 unmodified evades. At least 2 of the Bwings should have a focus, so I wouldn't expect Biggs to survive the HLC onslaught. Biggs will almost always die in the first exchange, so I think you need to maximize his only attack.

The game itself is setup to favor offense over defense. 3 HLC Bwings is a totally offensive list. I think you need to meet a hammer like that with another hammer. There is no anvil strong enough in this game to reliably weather that storm.

But, my strategy isn't the only one that could work. With 3 ships, I just can't see hiding one and potentially not getting a shot at all with Biggs. Shrug.

To be clear, I wasn't talking about simply hiding Biggs, but giving him a shot behind a rock, if possible. If the option is a shot in the open or no shot behind a rock,

Ideally you take a better than 50/50 chance that he lasts until the next round and gets a second attack in. especially if you take a focus on Biggs.

IMO, if not, you're not very likely to take down a B-Wing anyway and are in definite trouble as you're likely losing the war of attrition.

Solid advice going on in this thread, but one question: you don't necessarily know what you're going up against when you field your list, correct?

I see all of you saying, "Well, change x, y, and z and next time do a, b, and c." Well, that's all well and good advice, but I don't think you get to pick your ships on the spot after seeing what the opponent is fielding?

Nope X-Wing is pretty much just a complex version of Rock-Paper-Scissors hence sometimes you might be stronger other times no but that just comes with the turf. Thats where forward thinking, good flying and smart tactics can save the day. Hence I said make a list your comfortable with then keep flying it til you feel you know what your doing.

Solid advice going on in this thread, but one question: you don't necessarily know what you're going up against when you field your list, correct?

I see all of you saying, "Well, change x, y, and z and next time do a, b, and c." Well, that's all well and good advice, but I don't think you get to pick your ships on the spot after seeing what the opponent is fielding?

There's definitely some list-building advice, and you're right, but there's some good generic advice going on too.

Using my own example, I think being able to run the math in your head for dice comparisons at different ranges is a simple, but critical, skill that can often point out some counterintuitive realities. Things like charging B-wings with X-wings or staying at long range when attacking a Falcon with TIEs.

I don't agree that X-wing has a strong RPS element to it. There are definitely elements that are stronger than others, but there are very few true Rock-Smashes-Scissors matchups in the game. Even the worst one I can think of - Interceptors vs. Turrets - isn't a guaranteed reliable win for the turrets.

So, had another 3 B-wing list today that I got steamrolled. He was running:

Blue Squadron Pilot+Sensor Jammer

Blue Squadron Pilot+Sensor Jammer

Ibtisam+Sensor Jammer+Ion Cannon+Adv. Prot. Torp.+Push the Limit+Engine Upgrade

I was flying a TIE Swarm list with Vader as a lone ranger (engine upgrade).

Basically I couldn't touch this guy. He negated so much of my damage it was nuts. I basically picked apart my ships one by one. I think I only scored about 4-5 hits on his entire list the whole game. The dice were not with me, obviously.

My question is about Sensor Jammer: if I choose to use my Action to Focus, if I roll a [Hit][blank][blank], and he uses Sensor Jammer to turn my hit into a Focus, can I choose to spend my focus and get my hit back? I really just need some clarification on Sensor Jammer in relation to spending focus tokens.

Yes. The Jammer takes effect before you modify your dice, so if they change it to an eye, change it right back into a hit (assuming you have a focus token).

Yeah. If you were treating the Jammer as if it just negated a hit, that would certainly have skewed the game.

Solid advice going on in this thread, but one question: you don't necessarily know what you're going up against when you field your list, correct?

I see all of you saying, "Well, change x, y, and z and next time do a, b, and c." Well, that's all well and good advice, but I don't think you get to pick your ships on the spot after seeing what the opponent is fielding?

There's definitely some list-building advice, and you're right, but there's some good generic advice going on too.

Using my own example, I think being able to run the math in your head for dice comparisons at different ranges is a simple, but critical, skill that can often point out some counterintuitive realities. Things like charging B-wings with X-wings or staying at long range when attacking a Falcon with TIEs.

I don't agree that X-wing has a strong RPS element to it. There are definitely elements that are stronger than others, but there are very few true Rock-Smashes-Scissors matchups in the game. Even the worst one I can think of - Interceptors vs. Turrets - isn't a guaranteed reliable win for the turrets.

AGREEMENT! AGREEEMENT! AGREEEEEEEEEEEMEEEEEENT!!!