just wondering but why does pilot skill have no effect on a pilots ability to shoot or dodge?

just wondering but why does pilot skill have no effect on a pilots ability to shoot or dodge?

Sure it does. You bring your guns to bear more quickly, and shoot at them before they can shoot back.

It's not like Wedge's X-Wing has 15 more guns than a Rookie Pilot's...

ya but being a more experienced pilot he's a better shot and more likely to hit

ya but being a more experienced pilot he's a better shot and more likely to hit

...thus shooting first, and likely having a great pilot ability and/or elite pilot talent.

Moving second has a huge effect. It is a lot harder to hit Soontir Fel than it is to hit a Saber Squadron Pilot, because Soontir knows where you are and can boost/barrel-roll into a better position.

Moving second helps a ton with TL and just about every other action

ya but being a more experienced pilot he's a better shot and more likely to hit

...thus shooting first, and likely having a great pilot ability and/or elite pilot talent.

Wedge IS a better pilot and thats why he moves last, reduces your agility, and shoots first.

You can't shoot back if you are dead.

I actually really like how PS works in this game. It doesn't change the ship, but it does let you take better advantage of your ship.

I agree with this idea, in the sense that Wedge should be able to dodge better than a Rookie X-wing pilot. But he can't. Not without an engine Upgrade. And Luke can't shoot more accuratley than a Rookie X-wing pilot. Not without using an EPT. EPT's make up for this some, but I do think certain pilots should have nominally better stats, abilities, and actions than their generic counterparts on an all around level. Pilot Skill is not an effective enough method due to the fact it's not as much an advantage as a difference. High PS ships are vulnerable to action denial, and the only ships that really use their high PS well are ships with positioning abilities or certain upgrade cards. But that would have probably led to greater overcost and inneficiency, and given X-wings small stats there isn't much room for small increases, as at minimum +1 attack dice on an X-wing is a 25% boost in efficency. That's a lot.

Something you see a little is some pilots have less shield/ hull. The example I can think if this is the generic smuggler card with the falcon. His hull/ shield is something like 6/4 instead of 8/5.

Something you see a little is some pilots have less shield/ hull. The example I can think if this is the generic smuggler card with the falcon. His hull/ shield is something like 6/4 instead of 8/5.

Which is the least sensical set of stats to manipulate... Shield and Hull wouldn't change based on pilots. But accuracy and agility would.

It's a board game.

If the minis all got moved around in real-time, pilot skill would be abstracted differently.

It's a board game.

If the minis all got moved around in real-time, pilot skill would be abstracted differently.

It's a board game.

If the minis all got moved around in real-time, pilot skill would be abstracted differently.

But it would be nice if Wedge could survive a game. I mean, he survived 2 Death star Runs, and has been stated as George Lucas's quinticential survivor. Nothing about Wedge in this game represents that. High PS pilots don't feel like they are as much better than Low PS pilots as they should. In fact for me they feel worse most of the time.(Cost more for the roughly same effectiveness and a big target on their face.) Each pilot has a niche, but usually not a powerful one. The exceptions are Interceptor Pilots, Phantoms seem to need PS, and other ships that focus on positioning. But positioning isn't the best mechanic due to a severe YT weakness. That leaves me wanting squads full of generic pilots that don't draw focus fire or cost as much. Part of me feels that this is a flaw in the game. But not a game breaking one. Just an annoying one.

Plot-armor hurts game balance.

But yeah, there are definitely some limitations to the entire game design. X-wing Miniatures Game isn't a very good dogfighting simulator. I likely wouldn't be playing it, if it were. :-)

Though you never know.

Thing is, there is no good way to simulate main character plot immunity in a balanced board game. Wedge takes work to kill because he shoots first and hits hard, add an astromech and EPT and he gets even better, but now he needs to do the job of two because of points.

So yeah, Luke Wedge, Vader, they die. But if they didn't we wouldn't be able to play them. I think the system works well, and I really like killing Luke.

I always felt that the evade action should be tagged to the pilots instead of the ships, eg. Academy TIE would have focus and roll, Winged Gundark would have focus roll evade. Rookie Xwing has focus lock, Wedge has focus lock evade

Even if it does not really have much impact, at least you now have a reason to choose lousy pilots like Fels Wrath, Arvel etcetc

One thing that could conceivably be improved upon is placement rules.

As it stands, each game more or less begins with a joust. This limits the utility of the later placement of higher skill pilots. Ideally you would want to be able to start Wedge or Vader in a flanking position or behind their opponent.

There are a lot of options for house rules and scenarios and such. X-wing is better suited to casual play in many ways.

How's this sound:

Pilot Skill 1-3 ships must start at least range 3 from the edge of the board

PS 4-6 must start at least range 2 from the edge of the board

PS 7-9 may be placed any distance from the edge

I just pulled the idea out of thin air, but I feel it could potentially improve the Dogfight tournament format.

The difference between two dice and three dice is huge in this game. If you were completely reconstruct this game from the ground up you could make a game where skill effects actual attack rolls or defense rolls, but you can't really make any changes like that as the game stands now. But I would like to point out that Wedge does hit more, Luke does dodge more. And there abilities are both really powerful in the game as it stands right now. Higher skilled pilots (the named ones) all have pretty cool abilities that do make them better. And of all the big Star Wars names only boba felt's isn't awesome.

In all fairness to Boba, if you watch the films he's pretty lousy in combat. His only moment of glory was predicting Han's trash drop move. When he actually gets into a fight Luke basically kills him on accident.

Honestly the only solution I've been able to think of is to give pilots +1 agility when evading an attack from someone with lesser unmodified pilot skill.

And my issue isn't the abilities, it's that arguably a Rookie Pilot is more points efficient than Wedge. Is he really over 33% Better than a Rookie Pilot? Not really. No. Pilot skill isn't worth it, and being a huge offensive threat is overcosted by being a huge target.

I agree with this idea, in the sense that Wedge should be able to dodge better than a Rookie X-wing pilot. But he can't. Not without an engine Upgrade. And Luke can't shoot more accuratley than a Rookie X-wing pilot. Not without using an EPT. EPT's make up for this some, but I do think certain pilots should have nominally better stats, abilities, and actions than their generic counterparts on an all around level. Pilot Skill is not an effective enough method due to the fact it's not as much an advantage as a difference. High PS ships are vulnerable to action denial, and the only ships that really use their high PS well are ships with positioning abilities or certain upgrade cards. But that would have probably led to greater overcost and inneficiency, and given X-wings small stats there isn't much room for small increases, as at minimum +1 attack dice on an X-wing is a 25% boost in efficency. That's a lot.

I disagree. PS is the way it is because the important thing here is player skill. A high PS is only rewarding in the hands of a good player and is not subject to increases in randomness (which is what bonus dice represent) so I think different stats to represent differences in pilot ability would be a bad direction to go because it wouldn't encourage skillful player input. The way PS works now, you have to think carefully to avoid blocks and even without barrel-roll/boost, you can get better positioning than a lower PS if you think a few moves ahead (at least this is more noticeable in the endgame when only 1 or 2 ships left). Also, target prioritization is player skill that is actually easier when you have a significant PS advantage with more ships getting to shoot first.

I wish they'd reworked Predator to be 're-roll one die; if the target's pilot skill is 4 or more less than yours, re-roll two dice'.

I agree with this idea, in the sense that Wedge should be able to dodge better than a Rookie X-wing pilot. But he can't. Not without an engine Upgrade. And Luke can't shoot more accuratley than a Rookie X-wing pilot. Not without using an EPT. EPT's make up for this some, but I do think certain pilots should have nominally better stats, abilities, and actions than their generic counterparts on an all around level. Pilot Skill is not an effective enough method due to the fact it's not as much an advantage as a difference. High PS ships are vulnerable to action denial, and the only ships that really use their high PS well are ships with positioning abilities or certain upgrade cards. But that would have probably led to greater overcost and inneficiency, and given X-wings small stats there isn't much room for small increases, as at minimum +1 attack dice on an X-wing is a 25% boost in efficency. That's a lot.

I disagree. PS is the way it is because the important thing here is player skill. A high PS is only rewarding in the hands of a good player and is not subject to increases in randomness (which is what bonus dice represent) so I think different stats to represent differences in pilot ability would be a bad direction to go because it wouldn't encourage skillful player input. The way PS works now, you have to think carefully to avoid blocks and even without barrel-roll/boost, you can get better positioning than a lower PS if you think a few moves ahead (at least this is more noticeable in the endgame when only 1 or 2 ships left). Also, target prioritization is player skill that is actually easier when you have a significant PS advantage with more ships getting to shoot first.

Aminar, I definitely agree with you that PS seems a bit overcosted. Perhaps even the designers feel that way since we're seeing more abilities that punish low PS to an extent (flight instructor, predator and the test pilot title on new a-wing).

However, I've never felt that blocking was a PS equalizer. In my experience (which may well be much different than yours) actively getting a block on an experienced player is very difficult unless they want it or don't care. Even if you get a block, you are possibly denying yourself shooting potential, so its not always a good thing. Also, if you plan ahead, you can force (trap?) A low PS ship into having to bump you (before your higher PS ship moves away) or take a crappy alternative move that leaves them in a worse position. So its kind of a counter-block, but works best with a few ships, some asteroids and you have to think a couple moves ahead to set it up. Like blocking though, players can learn to avoid it of course. But its an option low PS doesn't have.

Because PS9 isn't really better than PS5 in most games.

I agree, that is an issue. For the most part, the high PS pilots have good abilities that make them worth taking. But that's because of their ability and not their high PS most times.

Take Arvel in a A-Wing for example, his pilot ability just isn't that good, and you seldom get a huge boost out of a PS6 pilot. So people seldom take him.

But I don't know what at this point they could do to make fundamental changes to the whole system.

Aminar, I definitely agree with you that PS seems a bit overcosted. Perhaps even the designers feel that way since we're seeing more abilities that punish low PS to an extent (flight instructor, predator and the test pilot title on new a-wing).

However, I've never felt that blocking was a PS equalizer. In my experience (which may well be much different than yours) actively getting a block on an experienced player is very difficult unless they want it or don't care. Even if you get a block, you are possibly denying yourself shooting potential, so its not always a good thing. Also, if you plan ahead, you can force (trap?) A low PS ship into having to bump you (before your higher PS ship moves away) or take a crappy alternative move that leaves them in a worse position. So its kind of a counter-block, but works best with a few ships, some asteroids and you have to think a couple moves ahead to set it up. Like blocking though, players can learn to avoid it of course. But its an option low PS doesn't have.