I posted these on 'How good are Proton Bombs?' thread but wanted to get some discussion going on these squads so here goes...

SQUAD#1 (99pts)

Kath Scarlet + Gunner + expert handling (45)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + seismic charges (18)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + seismic charges (18)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + seismic charges (18)

SQUAD#2 (100pts)

Bounty Hunter + Gunner + Seismic Charges (40)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)

SQUAD#3 (100pts)

Kath Scarlet + Gunner + Expert Handling+ Shield Upgrade + Proton Bombs (54)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Proton Bombs (23)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Proton Bombs (23)

thoughts?

As much as low numbers is a gamble I like the third list the best, if only because barrel rolling big ships is hilarious, especially against elite lists (looking at you Wedge, Biggs, and Luke).

As much as low numbers is a gamble I like the third list the best, if only because barrel rolling big ships is hilarious, especially against elite lists (looking at you Wedge, Biggs, and Luke).

there is a dedicated swarm player at my LGS who im lookn fwd to playing that squad against. im pretty sure i can surprise him and bomb 2 or 3 of his ships on the 2nd turn and take them out early.

I like the idea of your original list, but I'm surprised that you don't have Krassis in there. If you lose Kath and take Krassis...

I posted these on 'How good are Proton Bombs?' thread but wanted to get some discussion going on these squads so here goes...

SQUAD#1 (99pts)

Kath Scarlet + Gunner + expert handling (45)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + seismic charges (18)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + seismic charges (18)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + seismic charges (18

Slight change up to your list to try to make sure those filthy rebels end up in your bombs.

Krassis Trelix + Ion Cannon

Captain Jonus + Determination + Seismic Charge

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charge

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charge

It allows you to get up to three rerolls on the ion cannon shot (Krassis and Jonus together) without spending actions so you can evade to keep Krassis alive longer. With at least one ship consistently Ion'd (hopefully), you can plant your bombs much more effectively (since with such low PS on the bombers, most of your opponents are going to move after you have to decide whether or not to drop a bomb). You can scrap Determination for a 99 point initiative bid (though in this build having initiative may actually hurt you since a lot of it has to do with opponent post-movement decision making.)

I really like Squad 2. I'll try it out and let you know what I think.

I like the idea of your original list, but I'm surprised that you don't have Krassis in there. If you lose Kath and take Krassis...

I posted these on 'How good are Proton Bombs?' thread but wanted to get some discussion going on these squads so here goes...

SQUAD#1 (99pts)

Kath Scarlet + Gunner + expert handling (45)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + seismic charges (18)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + seismic charges (18)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + seismic charges (18

Slight change up to your list to try to make sure those filthy rebels end up in your bombs.

Krassis Trelix + Ion Cannon

Captain Jonus + Determination + Seismic Charge

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charge

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charge

It allows you to get up to three rerolls on the ion cannon shot (Krassis and Jonus together) without spending actions so you can evade to keep Krassis alive longer. With at least one ship consistently Ion'd (hopefully), you can plant your bombs much more effectively (since with such low PS on the bombers, most of your opponents are going to move after you have to decide whether or not to drop a bomb). You can scrap Determination for a 99 point initiative bid (though in this build having initiative may actually hurt you since a lot of it has to do with opponent post-movement decision making.)

One G. interesting idea. Kath is there for her expert handling later game and high PS. Barrel rolling a firespray is amazing, esp when u can shoot out the rear arc and reboot ur attack if u miss! i can see the merits in running Krassis although im hesitant to rely on a front firing weapon like ion which is somewhat useless if they r behind her (unless the enemy is happy to sit in her front firing arc all day). I realize that once ur ion hits they will not be able to turn away but ur making ur own ships predicable in their movement as well - i think it this squad idea would work better versus rebels eh?

U r also limiting your mobility somewhat by needing Jonus to fly close to krassis to maximise ur synergy. (if im running jonus im going to find room for ordinance on those other bombers).

Gunner should deal consistent damage throughout the course of the game, provided you can keep Kath around and having the ability to shoot with gunner out of the rear arc is imo superior to a front firing weapon like ion (HLC has the same issues - which is why many ppl dont like HLC on a firespray - its hard to get value for that investment as you have to line t up with ur front arc - hard to so against agile ships). I do think ur idea has merit and reminds me a bit of the Red Lady squad ive seen here that uses Kath+ion and 2x intercepters working together to maximize killing shots. thanx for ur input.

You can scrap Determination for a 99 point initiative bid (though in this build having initiative may actually hurt you since a lot of it has to do with opponent post-movement decision making.)

With 99 points you determine if you get initiative or give it away. Might be worth it to go to 99to not have it.

You can scrap Determination for a 99 point initiative bid (though in this build having initiative may actually hurt you since a lot of it has to do with opponent post-movement decision making.)

With 99 points you determine if you get initiative or give it away. Might be worth it to go to 99to not have it.

Such a weird shift in thinking for Bomber lists, aye?

Used Squad 2 against Biggs with engine, 2 X Blues with AS and rookie and won on vassal tonight. Had a BH with 8 HP left at the end. Dice were average to perhaps a little below.

Really like how the list played. The seismics were huge (each charge scored at least 1 hit and charges were the final damage in taking down both B-wings). B-wings struggle to get away from them. The PS bid came into play nicely.

I ran the 3 gammas in a tight swarm pattern and hit from the front while bringing in the BH from the flank.

Tomorrow is my local table-top X Wing night. I'll see if I can get a couple more games in with it there.

Used Squad 2 against Biggs with engine, 2 X Blues with AS and rookie and won on vassal tonight. Had a BH with 8 HP left at the end. Dice were average to perhaps a little below.

Really like how the list played. The seismics were huge (each charge scored at least 1 hit and charges were the final damage in taking down both B-wings). B-wings struggle to get away from them. The PS bid came into play nicely.

I ran the 3 gammas in a tight swarm pattern and hit from the front while bringing in the BH from the flank.

Tomorrow is my local table-top X Wing night. I'll see if I can get a couple more games in with it there.

nice work. i really think bombers with seismics r underrated and at the very least unexpected and therefore they will be unsure how to play against them

let me know how u get on with further testing

I am a big fan of running a Heavy Laser Cannon on Krassus alongside Jonus.

You only have the points left for a single Scimitar after that, but he can rock Assault Missiles and you still have points to Seismic Charges on all three.

But the mix of Bombers and Firespray?

Gold.

I am a big fan of running a Heavy Laser Cannon on Krassus alongside Jonus.

Eh, Krassis' reroll doesn't come into play all that often if you already have rerolls from Jonus, and I'd rather demote him to a Bounty Hunter and use those three points to nudge up the survivability of the Firespray. Like so :

Bounty Hunter (33)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Recon Specialist (3)

Captain Jonus (22)

Homing Missiles (5)

Seismic Charges (2)

Gamma Squadron Pilot (18)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Cluster Missiles (4)

Seismic Charges (2)

Interesting. So you're having the most success with list 2? The BH w/ Gunner and Seis and Gamma x3 with seis?

I am not a fan of going down to 3 empire ships for any reason (MAYBE if 2 are big).

How exactly do you fly this? Does the BH stick with the miniswarm or does he do his own thing? Do you find the bombs difficult to drop with such low PS?

Got in another game with Squad 2 tonight. Another Win!

Played against Han with Marksmanship and Gunner and 2 Golds with Ion Turret.

He set up the 2 golds to my far right. I deployed the bombers in a line directly across from the golds and the BH in the middle. He deployed Han directly across from my BH.

My original plan was to try and go for the golds first but based on deployment I switched up and decided to go for Han. I moved the BH 1 forward and set the bombers up to go for Han by going 4,3,2. Hand went 4 forward and the Golds also went full out straight. Next turn another 1 forward for the BH and the Gammas banked 3 towards Han. Golds banked 3 towards the middle and Han went 1 forward.

He decided to put Han on the closest Gamma and Ion the other 2 hoping to gain control of them. Han blinded the Gamma close to him and the others got Ioned. Things weren't looking good. the BH and one Gamma worked on Han while the other elected to take the R1 shot on the closest Y Wing.

Over the next turn I faired better with only 1 Gamma getting ioned and I blocked Han with BH and set up another block for next turn with one of the Gammas. This allowed the BH to work on the damaged Y. On the next turn it was time seismic. I dropped them all! It was a high risk high reward maneuver but I felt I needed to take it as the Y Wings were behind 2 of my Gammas and if the other failed to block Han he'd likely die next turn. So I ended up scoring 5 hits and taking 3 myself. It ended up being the right decision.

The BH dropped the beat up Y before it shot. The other Y failed to ionize the gamma he shot at and Han dropped the most damaged Gamma. At this point I slowly started gaining the advantage. I focused my efforts on Han as the other Y wing was slightly out of position. I made another key block on Han that kept him barely in range 3 of the BH and took him out. He took out another Gamma. When I finished off the last Y wing I had 1 Hull left on the final Gamma and no shields, 6 Hull left on the BH.

2-0 so far with this list. Being that my 2 primary lists are a 2 BH list and a Tie Swarm list, I think this list plays a little to both my styles. Going to keep working it out!

i played one game with each of these squads today. both matches were versus a Han Shoots first variant.

SQUAD#2 (100pts)

Bounty Hunter + Gunner + Seismic Charges (40)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges (20)

SQUAD#3 (100pts)

Kath Scarlet + Gunner + Expert Handling+ Shield Upgrade + Proton Bombs (54)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Proton Bombs (23)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Proton Bombs (23)

Squad#3 actually faired better mostly thanx to the proton bombs taking out Wedge early. Han and Wedge took down one Gamma b4 it got to use its proton Bomb but Kath and the remaining Gamma managed to catch Wedge with proton bombs soon after and took him out. from there Han picked off the last gamma which left a full health Kath Scarlet to take on Han head-to-head. even tho i lost a bomber early both bombers were effective in soaking up early damage.

My game with SQUAD#2 (100pts) was not so good with my Bounty Hunter taking heavy fire early and being the first ship destroyed I REALLY missed the expert handling. i need more practice moving my bombers into positions where they can use their mines more effectively. i am starting to think mines are more of a late game strategy and bombs are best early. getting a key crit through a shielded target can really swing the game in ur favour.

right now my preference is SQUAD#3 but still working on some tactics with both.

another variant im considering that shows some promise is...

Kath Scarlet + Gunner + Proton Bombs + Expert Handling (50)

Omicron Group Pilot + Advanced Sensors + Engine Upgrade + Intelligence Agent (29)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Proton Bombs (21)

Intel Agent allows for more accurate placement of bombs.

Omicron offers support fire and useful blocker.

Scimitar and shuttle share PS2 which assist in movement options and 'auto blocking' when they flown together.

thoughts?

Gotten in 3 or 4 more games with squad 2 since my last post and have won them all.

At this point, with your permission, I think I'll just claim this list

Thanks!!!

Gotten in 3 or 4 more games with squad 2 since my last post and have won them all.

At this point, with your permission, I think I'll just claim this list

Thanks!!!

what lists have u beaten? gr8 to see u getn results with firespray + bombers.

Gotten in 3 or 4 more games with squad 2 since my last post and have won them all.

At this point, with your permission, I think I'll just claim this list

Thanks!!!

what lists have u beaten? gr8 to see u getn results with firespray + bombers.

I was one of his games last night: I played BH+RC 4xScimitar. His ps bid and bombs paid off, but it felt like I couldn't roll an evade; while he was making nearly all of his. This game could have gone either way, but the dice were unkind when I needed to kill his bombers before they dropped their payload.

Ironically, since I just had made a post about the subject, his gunner played a major role in is BH's damage.

I am playing one of these today in my local group - we meet each moth and play 2 matches versus different opponents. Looking fwd to se how it goes against a tie-swarm (one player always plays a swarm). hmm, wonder if i can sneak in assault missiles? its just the randomness of rolling a missile attack that i hate but if it hits the bombs that follow up could kill a number of ties... thats got me thinking.

Scarlet Witch (version #1 )

Kath Scarlet + Gunner + Expert Handling+ Shield Upgrade + Proton Bombs (54)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Proton Bombs (23)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Proton Bombs (23)

Total: 100pts

Scarlet Witch (version #2)

Kath Scarlet + Gunner + Expert Handling+ Shield Upgrade + Proton Bombs (54)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Proton Bombs (23)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Assault Missiles (23)

Total: 100pts

Scarlet Witch (version #3)

Kath Scarlet + Gunner + Expert Handling + Proton Bombs (50)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Proton Bombs + Assault Missiles (28)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Proton Bombs (21)

Total: 99pts

Scarlet Witch (version #4)

Kath Scarlet + Gunner + Expert Handling+ Assault Missiles + Proton Bombs (55)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Proton Bombs + Assault Missiles (28)

Backstabber (16)

Total: 99pts

Scarlet Witch (version #5)

Kath Scarlet + Gunner + Expert Handling+ Assault Missiles + Proton Bombs (55)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Proton Bombs + Assault Missiles (28)

Dark Curse (16)

Total: 99pts

what lists have u beaten? gr8 to see u getn results with firespray + bombers.

As JFunk mentioned he was the most recent game. I also beat a BlueBacca list, Kath & Boba, and I'm pretty sure I got in one more...maybe against 5 greens with PTL and the unlreleased retrofit.

I was one of his games last night: I played BH+RC 4xScimitar. His ps bid and bombs paid off, but it felt like I couldn't roll an evade; while he was making nearly all of his. This game could have gone either way, but the dice were unkind when I needed to kill his bombers before they dropped their payload.

Ironically, since I just had made a post about the subject, his gunner played a major role in is BH's damage.

I was curious just how good they were after we talked. I remembered them streaking so I went back and manually added them up. Assuming no / minimal human error after tallying 20+ pages of data this is what I came up with.

44 Total evade rolls: Rolling 19 evades (43%), 9 focus (20%), 16 blanks (36%). So the blanks were right on odds, the focus about 5% below average and the evade about 5% above.

I also went back and checked my hits cause I thought they were low. They were about 2.5% low counting crits but my focus was about 7% high so that evened things up (nearly all my actions were focus) a bit and the blanks were therefore below average. 90 Total attack rolls: Rolling 14 crits (15%), 30hits (33%), 29 focus (32%), 17 blanks (18%).

Was definitely a good game though!

Gunner was a stud. I'm a huge gunner fan. Against agility 2 or more it's awesome. The problem with gunner is when you play 2 in a dual FS list and face agility 1 spam. Then you are pretty much playing 10% down and if the ships are b-wings or Chewbacca (2 of the best ships in the game) it's just too much to overcome 9 times out of 10. Since Chewie and B-Wings are everywhere now I think taking 2 of them is just 2 much of a gamble in nearly all lists. However 1 with the right combination of support ships might be the ticket.

SQUAD#3 (100pts)

Kath Scarlet + Gunner + Expert Handling+ Shield Upgrade + Proton Bombs (54)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Proton Bombs (23)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Proton Bombs (23)

i am 3-0 with the above list. its very durable. two of the wins i didnt lose a ship although i think one or even both of my bombers were close to death.

working on a new variation that uses kath + gamma + royal guard intercepter

2 more wins today with Squad 2. Both games were against Biggs, Luke and Wedge fitted with appropriate upgrades.

I was interested to see how Squad 2 would work out against higher PS. I pretty much played down 6 pts and making the charges work was a challenge when I'm having to guess if the location I'm dropping in will score any hits.

The first game was a decisive win. I don't think I hadn't lost a ship when my opponent was down to just Luke with 1 hull left and called it.

The 2nd game started off to look a little like the first but my opponent came back. I got way ahead taking out Wedge and Biggs before losing a ship. Then Luke became the superstar. He took out one bomber, got another one down to 1 hull, the last down to 3 hull and the BH down to 2 hull. I struggled with the Bomber dial to dogfight against Luke and he was able to do a lot of green maneuvers while getting a shot in one 1 ship and not being in position to take a bunch back. I had to be careful with the Firespray because he was so beat up. Finally I just flew everyone in opposite directions and then K-turned them back in. I was able to engage with all 3 bombers at the same time (with the FS being just a few mm's outsite of r3) He dropped one of the bombers before it shot but the other barely finished him off as his evade dice finally gave out on him.

Great games and more success for the list!

I like the idea of your original list, but I'm surprised that you don't have Krassis in there. If you lose Kath and take Krassis...

I posted these on 'How good are Proton Bombs?' thread but wanted to get some discussion going on these squads so here goes...

SQUAD#1 (99pts)

Kath Scarlet + Gunner + expert handling (45)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + seismic charges (18)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + seismic charges (18)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + seismic charges (18

Slight change up to your list to try to make sure those filthy rebels end up in your bombs.

Krassis Trelix + Ion Cannon

Captain Jonus + Determination + Seismic Charge

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charge

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charge

It allows you to get up to three rerolls on the ion cannon shot (Krassis and Jonus together) without spending actions so you can evade to keep Krassis alive longer. With at least one ship consistently Ion'd (hopefully), you can plant your bombs much more effectively (since with such low PS on the bombers, most of your opponents are going to move after you have to decide whether or not to drop a bomb). You can scrap Determination for a 99 point initiative bid (though in this build having initiative may actually hurt you since a lot of it has to do with opponent post-movement decision making.)

One G. interesting idea. Kath is there for her expert handling later game and high PS. Barrel rolling a firespray is amazing, esp when u can shoot out the rear arc and reboot ur attack if u miss! i can see the merits in running Krassis although im hesitant to rely on a front firing weapon like ion which is somewhat useless if they r behind her (unless the enemy is happy to sit in her front firing arc all day). I realize that once ur ion hits they will not be able to turn away but ur making ur own ships predicable in their movement as well - i think it this squad idea would work better versus rebels eh?

U r also limiting your mobility somewhat by needing Jonus to fly close to krassis to maximise ur synergy. (if im running jonus im going to find room for ordinance on those other bombers).

Gunner should deal consistent damage throughout the course of the game, provided you can keep Kath around and having the ability to shoot with gunner out of the rear arc is imo superior to a front firing weapon like ion (HLC has the same issues - which is why many ppl dont like HLC on a firespray - its hard to get value for that investment as you have to line t up with ur front arc - hard to so against agile ships). I do think ur idea has merit and reminds me a bit of the Red Lady squad ive seen here that uses Kath+ion and 2x intercepters working together to maximize killing shots. thanx for ur input.

Well, truthfully when I run an Ion Krassis build, i like to have fighters there, not bombers. I was just trying to keep your list in mind. What I like to do is this:

First, Ion an enemy ship. Use flankers or blockers (usually TIEs) to gain damage that round.

Second, get in the way of the Ionized ship (if higher PS than you) and deny actions/possibly hurt them with APL, or line up a range 1 shot if they move first. Optional, line up more range 1 shots with other ships (this is conditional- works great on ships that need a lot of focus fire to kill, or frees up your other pilots to consider new threats for a round or two)

Third, line up a good rear-arc shot as you make your pass. Chances are you'll have much better maneuvering options if you had other ships close to your target, leaving you free to pick that rear-arc or select a new target to ionize or shoot in the front.