Hi All

Has anyone tried re-creating scenes from the Star Wars movies using these rules? If so, how did it play out?

I'm not so much thinking of rolling the dice, I'm more thinking of choosing the result to match what happened in the movies.

Not the movies, I did use the original Han Solo books as a springboard from where my guys started. Used the Star's End novel in particular and retrieving the team from the data/agri planet as a template. It played out very much like it did in the book actually.

Cool, thanks 2P51.

My main reason for asking is just to see how the rules fair against the movies, By picking a scene from one of the films and trying to recreate it with the game rules, this could be a great way of learning how the rules work for newer players, whilst also being a great showcase for the ability of the rules to emulate the films.

The RAW for Force powers do not provide near enough power or options to recreate parts of the OT.

I think the rest of the rules greatly lend themselves to creating cinematic scenes evocative of the OT.

The RAW for Force powers do not provide near enough power or options to recreate parts of the OT.

I think the rest of the rules greatly lend themselves to creating cinematic scenes evocative of the OT.

It seems pretty obvious EotE is meant to emulate Episode IV, AoR for Episode V, and the upcoming Force book will represent Episode VI plus include enough to run Episode I, II, and III. We only have EotE and AoR currently, and I can't think of a single scene in either movie that couldn't be emulated with the RAW.

There's not a hard mechanic for how Luke succeeded in the trench run (and imo there shouldn't be a strict hard mechanic to it beyond maybe "roll Force Dice and flip Destiny" as a way to fuel a Plot Event). And I don't believe that Move is currently powerful enough to pull an X-Wing out of the swamp, though I could surely be wrong there. We don't really have a way for Vader to stop blaster bolts with his hand (this was a discrete power in Saga, IIRC).

There's not a hard mechanic for how Luke succeeded in the trench run (and imo there shouldn't be a strict hard mechanic to it beyond maybe "roll Force Dice and flip Destiny" as a way to fuel a Plot Event). And I don't believe that Move is currently powerful enough to pull an X-Wing out of the swamp, though I could surely be wrong there. We don't really have a way for Vader to stop blaster bolts with his hand (this was a discrete power in Saga, IIRC).

Trench run could be emulated with Touch of Fate, Force of Will, and a Destiny point. I use those from AoR, since Luke is definitely Force Sensitive Emergent.

I don't think a PC would be powerful enough to pull an X-Wing out of the swamp (maybe with good rolls), but a PC isn't going to be Yoda. That should be covered in the Force book.

To go with the previously mentioned, Vader is the Big Bad. He's got tough armor and GM fiat.

Without considering Dathomir magic, until the moment the powers emulate all the 100% canonic powers except Grip, Lighting, Slam and Speed (Episode I).

More o less, the rest of powers can be "adapted". Maybe I miss telepathy but... in general therms episodes IV,V and VI can be emulates pretty easily, at least with powers.

The RAW for Force powers do not provide near enough power or options to recreate parts of the OT.

I think the rest of the rules greatly lend themselves to creating cinematic scenes evocative of the OT.

It seems pretty obvious EotE is meant to emulate Episode IV, AoR for Episode V, and the upcoming Force book will represent Episode VI plus include enough to run Episode I, II, and III. We only have EotE and AoR currently, and I can't think of a single scene in either movie that couldn't be emulated with the RAW.

Force Issues

• Ben waking luke (arguable)
• Luke vs Remote
• Luke in trench vs death star
• Vader absorbing blaster bolts

Combat System Issues

• The Squadron fight over the death star (requires GM to create data that the rules don't generate for the ability to kill one's own target then come to a buddy's aid).
• The battle of Hoth
• Han escaping to the asteroid belt
• the whole escape from cloud city sequence.

That's just Eps IV and V.

Force Issues

• Ben waking luke (arguable)
• Luke vs Remote
• Luke in trench vs death star
• Vader absorbing blaster bolts

Combat System Issues

• The Squadron fight over the death star (requires GM to create data that the rules don't generate for the ability to kill one's own target then come to a buddy's aid).
• The battle of Hoth
• Han escaping to the asteroid belt
• the whole escape from cloud city sequence.

That's just Eps IV and V.

• Ben waking Luke - Ben is not a PC. He's a Jedi, so if he used the Force to wake Luke that will be covered in a later book.
• Luke vs Remote - Sense Danger.
• Luke in trench vs Death Star - Already covered this, but Luke made a Gunnery check against a Formidable difficulty (not Impossible), used Touch of Fate, Force of Will, and flipped a Destiny point.
• Vader absorbing blaster bolts - Vader is not a PC. Vader is a Sith Lord.

• Squadron fight over the Death Star.... - If you really don't think this can't be done with the Space rules, I don't know what to tell you. It's seems trivially easy to me.
• The Battle of Hoth - Seriously? Anyway, there are apparently mass combat rules coming soon to a FLGS near you, but, last time I checked, there wasn't anything in the BoH that you couldn't actually play out with the regular combat rules. Sure, it would take a long time, but you could do it.
• Han escaping to the asteroid belt - What? Han made a Piloting-Space check to outmaneuver the Imperial ships and enter the asteroid belt. Of course, Leia flipped a Destiny point for there to be an asteroid belt nearby they could hide in. None of this would have been necessary if Chewie hadn't rolled a Despair when he was putting the Falcon's hyperdrive back together.
• The whole escape from cloud city sequence - Again, I really don't see how you couldn't easy run in this in EotE RAW. I really don't. What happens on Cloud City that you think the system can't emulate?

Yeah, that's just Episodes IV and V and, so far, I haven't seen anything that a group playing the protagonists (Han, Luke, Leia, etc) couldn't do. You're never going to convince me that PCs unable to pull what Darth Vader, Yoda, and Ben Kenobi did is in someway a failing.

Ben waking Luke - Ben is not a PC. He's a Jedi, so if he used the Force to wake Luke that will be covered in a later book.

If you want to be technical, nobody in the movies is remotely built like a PC. Everything was done for cinematic value. Comments like "Vader isn't a PC so who cares about the rules" aren't helpful when talking about the game's RAW and players wanting to replicate them.

Ben waking Luke - Ben is not a PC. He's a Jedi, so if he used the Force to wake Luke that will be covered in a later book.

If you want to be technical, nobody in the movies is remotely built like a PC. Everything was done for cinematic value. Comments like "Vader isn't a PC so who cares about the rules" aren't helpful when talking about the game's RAW and players wanting to replicate them.

I do not share your opinion.

Further, I've yet to see a good example of something the protagonists do in A New Hope or The Empire Strikes Back that the protagonists in Edge of the Empire or Age of Rebellion could not.

Force Issues

• Ben waking luke (arguable)
• Luke vs Remote
• Luke in trench vs death star
• Vader absorbing blaster bolts

Combat System Issues

• The Squadron fight over the death star (requires GM to create data that the rules don't generate for the ability to kill one's own target then come to a buddy's aid).
• The battle of Hoth
• Han escaping to the asteroid belt
• the whole escape from cloud city sequence.

That's just Eps IV and V.

• Ben waking Luke - Ben is not a PC. He's a Jedi, so if he used the Force to wake Luke that will be covered in a later book.
• Luke vs Remote - Sense Danger.
• Luke in trench vs Death Star - Already covered this, but Luke made a Gunnery check against a Formidable difficulty (not Impossible), used Touch of Fate, Force of Will, and flipped a Destiny point.
• Vader absorbing blaster bolts - Vader is not a PC. Vader is a Sith Lord.

• Squadron fight over the Death Star.... - If you really don't think this can't be done with the Space rules, I don't know what to tell you. It's seems trivially easy to me.
• The Battle of Hoth - Seriously? Anyway, there are apparently mass combat rules coming soon to a FLGS near you, but, last time I checked, there wasn't anything in the BoH that you couldn't actually play out with the regular combat rules. Sure, it would take a long time, but you could do it.
• Han escaping to the asteroid belt - What? Han made a Piloting-Space check to outmaneuver the Imperial ships and enter the asteroid belt. Of course, Leia flipped a Destiny point for there to be an asteroid belt nearby they could hide in. None of this would have been necessary if Chewie hadn't rolled a Despair when he was putting the Falcon's hyperdrive back together.
• The whole escape from cloud city sequence - Again, I really don't see how you couldn't easy run in this in EotE RAW. I really don't. What happens on Cloud City that you think the system can't emulate?

Yeah, that's just Episodes IV and V and, so far, I haven't seen anything that a group playing the protagonists (Han, Luke, Leia, etc) couldn't do. You're never going to convince me that PCs unable to pull what Darth Vader, Yoda, and Ben Kenobi did is in someway a failing.

You're (1) shifting the goal posts and (2) relying upon judgement calls based upon GM improv rather than Rules As Written.

(Goal shift)

It doesn't matter that Ben and Vader are not PC's - what they do cannot be done within the rules as they currently exist.

(your math doesn't add up)

Likewise, "sense danger" doesn't account for the interceptions, unless the training remote is Agl 1 skill 0. Which, really, doesn't seem to fit, since it hits at engaged range pretty reliably (in hockey terms, every shot was a shot on goal, some of which were blocked), and engaged range is difficulty 2.

(your making judgement calls rather than RAW)

There isn't enough data generated by the combat system for the squadron as a group of PC's (Luke, Biggs, Porkins, Wedge) to come to each other's aid without the GM having to make a call not based in rules. Same is true for EVERY battle in the series.

As for escaping - there is no mechanical process for escaping combats - it's possible for one to hit extreme range in personal, but no RAW provision for actually leaving combat in a functional state. A flaw I've complained about since the Edge Beta. In vehicle combats, you can't even get to extreme. Another flaw I've complained about since the edge beta. Use of triumphs or Destiny to "escape" isn't actually listed - it's a common enough GM call, but it's not RAW. And since the Falcon was in combat when it escaped to the asteroid belt, it's not just a simple piloting roll, because you can't escape combat except by hyperdrive under the RAW. Even then, it's not explicit.

You're (1) shifting the goal posts and (2) relying upon judgement calls based upon GM improv rather than Rules As Written.

Shifting the goal posts? Hooray! You're familiar with basic argument. Unfortunately, I am not shifting the goal posts. My 'goalposts' were "I can't think of a single scene in either [ A New Hope or The Empire Strikes Back ] that couldn't be emulated with the RAW."

I hate to break it to you, but GM improv is part of the rules as written .

You have your opinion and you're welcome to it, but, as I've already said, it is not one I share. NPCs and PCs are not the same thing. RPGs have a long history of NPCs being able to do things PCs, for dramatic and gameplay reasons, simply cannot do.

Now, for the sake of argument, how would the RAW handle Vader 'stopping' Han's Blaster shots?

Easily.

Han wants to shoot Vader. That's a Ranged-Light check. It's Short Range, so it's Easy. The GM rules there is +1 Setback for the surprise of the encounter and another +1 Setback because Vader is utterly terrifying (in fact, Han might have already failed a Fear check, but we'll leave that out).

So, now Han's Ranged-Light is 1 Difficulty, 2 Setback. Not too hard, since Han has at least a 3 Agility and 3 Ranged-Light.

"Hold on!" says the GM. "Vader has four ranks in Adversary." Uh-oh. Suddenly, the 1 Difficulty, 2 Setback check becomes 1 Difficulty, 2 Challenge, and 2 Setback, then you add in Vader's armor. At minimum, Darth Vader's armor is going to add +2 Setback to any Ranged attack against him.

Plus, of course, it's Darth Vader, so the GM adds a Destiny point.

Final Difficulty: 3 Challenge, 4 Setback

When Han fails the roll, the GM describes the classic movie scene where Vader blocks the Blaster shots with one hand.

Done.

Oh, and what does Obi-Wan do in A New Hope ? Well, let's see, He wakes Luke up after he went unconscious, not hard for anyone to do. Then he senses Alderaan blowing up. Foresee if you wanted to, but really more GM foreshadowing. Then he loses a lightsaber fight.

Yeah, all that would be really hard for a GM to pull off with an NPC (which Obi-Wan clearly is).

What are you talking about?

I would point out to you the rules for Assisted Checks (Skilled and Unskilled) on pages 25 and 26 of Star Wars Edge of the Empire Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook . A group of PCs helping one another isn't a judgement call, it is literally spelled out in the RAW.

First, getting away from someone you don't want to fight is discussed on one entire page of the core rulebook, specifically page 241 in a sub-section called "The Chase."

Second, on page 239, the rules clearly state, and I am posting this verbatim, "At extreme range, opposing ships are still jockeying for position before engaging each other, and both sides still have the change to break off and escape."

If you're at extreme range and you take a movement maneuver to move away from your opponent, then, provided they don't chase you (see page 241), you escape and the encounter ends.

Technically, the encounter ends when the "action has been resolved," page 199. If the GM sets the resolution as "making it to the asteroid field," then that's when it ends. Or maybe it ends when, "you find a place to hide out in that may or may not be occupied by a space slug (Despair!)."

So, how do you get to extreme range?

You either start there or you get there when the action has been resolved. Extreme Range is the "everything else of space." It's not what you escape to. In the Star Wars Universe, you escape from a starship fight by jumping to hyperspace, not outrunning the enemy.

That's why Han has to go into the asteroids, because he can't outrun the Imperial Fleet. He makes a Piloting check to enter an area the Star Destroyers are reluctant to go. They send a flight of TIEs after him, and they're all destroyed.

The action is resolved before Han, Leia, Chewie, and the droids settle down on an asteroid for some much needed repairs.

Again, I really don't see anything the RAW can't emulate provided one of your players doesn't insist on being a Dark Lord of the Sith while everyone else in the party is a typical heroe.

I agree with KJDavid. Although the difficulty for a Ranged Light attack is higher than a Short Range attack. I forget the actual numbers.

Ben and Vader can't be recreated as PCs (yet) but as NPCs they work fine.

Also you can totally lift an X-wing with Move. And I'm still convinced Luke's destiny point was spent using the Exhaust Port talent from the Gunner tree.

I agree with KJDavid. Although the difficulty for a Ranged Light attack is higher than a Short Range attack. I forget the actual numbers.

Ben and Vader can't be recreated as PCs (yet) but as NPCs they work fine.

Also you can totally lift an X-wing with Move. And I'm still convinced Luke's destiny point was spent using the Exhaust Port talent from the Gunner tree.

Except that the powers they evidence are not yet in the game RAW.

And given that, their actions cannot be done by the rules as written, showign that either he's inept, imaging rules, failing to remember scenes from the movie, or flat out lying. In any case, he's unwilling to admit his error, and engaging in multiple fallacies in an effort to save face, which is also a form of gross dishonesty.

I agree with KJDavid. Although the difficulty for a Ranged Light attack is higher than a Short Range attack. I forget the actual numbers.

Ben and Vader can't be recreated as PCs (yet) but as NPCs they work fine.

Also you can totally lift an X-wing with Move. And I'm still convinced Luke's destiny point was spent using the Exhaust Port talent from the Gunner tree.

Except that the powers they evidence are not yet in the game RAW.

And given that, their actions cannot be done by the rules as written, showign that either he's inept, imaging rules, failing to remember scenes from the movie, or flat out lying. In any case, he's unwilling to admit his error, and engaging in multiple fallacies in an effort to save face, which is also a form of gross dishonesty.

Wow, nice job crossing the galaxy to the Ad Hominem System!

You're probably right. I'm probably a liar, stupid, forgetful, or simply obstinate. After all, it couldn't be possibly that you are in the wrong. Doesn't seem likely, since I've, obviously, used multiple fallacies (you know a big word!) to preserve my E-bushido.

Or maybe you're upset I systematically annihilated your spuriously inadequate contentions and you can't come up with a good rebuttal other than slandering someone who is obviously your intellectual superior?

Could go either way I guess.

Enjoy your Easter!

I agree with KJDavid. Although the difficulty for a Ranged Light attack is higher than a Short Range attack. I forget the actual numbers.

Ben and Vader can't be recreated as PCs (yet) but as NPCs they work fine.

Also you can totally lift an X-wing with Move. And I'm still convinced Luke's destiny point was spent using the Exhaust Port talent from the Gunner tree.

Except that the powers they evidence are not yet in the game RAW.

And given that, their actions cannot be done by the rules as written, showign that either he's inept, imaging rules, failing to remember scenes from the movie, or flat out lying. In any case, he's unwilling to admit his error, and engaging in multiple fallacies in an effort to save face, which is also a form of gross dishonesty.

Wow, nice job crossing the galaxy to the Ad Hominem System!

You're probably right. I'm probably a liar, stupid, forgetful, or simply obstinate. After all, it couldn't be possibly that you are in the wrong. Doesn't seem likely, since I've, obviously, used multiple fallacies (you know a big word!) to preserve my E-bushido.

Or maybe you're upset I systematically annihilated your spuriously inadequate contentions and you can't come up with a good rebuttal other than slandering someone who is obviously your intellectual superior?

Only in your delusions.

You need to go look up the classic falacies, and grasp the meaning of "Rules as written" - because until you're actually comprehending those, any further discussion with you is a waste of EVERYONE's time.

I agree with KJDavid. Although the difficulty for a Ranged Light attack is higher than a Short Range attack. I forget the actual numbers.

Ben and Vader can't be recreated as PCs (yet) but as NPCs they work fine.

Also you can totally lift an X-wing with Move. And I'm still convinced Luke's destiny point was spent using the Exhaust Port talent from the Gunner tree.

Except that the powers they evidence are not yet in the game RAW.

And given that, their actions cannot be done by the rules as written, showign that either he's inept, imaging rules, failing to remember scenes from the movie, or flat out lying. In any case, he's unwilling to admit his error, and engaging in multiple fallacies in an effort to save face, which is also a form of gross dishonesty.

Wow, nice job crossing the galaxy to the Ad Hominem System!

You're probably right. I'm probably a liar, stupid, forgetful, or simply obstinate. After all, it couldn't be possibly that you are in the wrong. Doesn't seem likely, since I've, obviously, used multiple fallacies (you know a big word!) to preserve my E-bushido.

Or maybe you're upset I systematically annihilated your spuriously inadequate contentions and you can't come up with a good rebuttal other than slandering someone who is obviously your intellectual superior?

Only in your delusions.

You need to go look up the classic falacies, and grasp the meaning of "Rules as written" - because until you're actually comprehending those, any further discussion with you is a waste of EVERYONE's time.

I'm delusional too? Gosh golly! Seems I've got a whole raft of problems. My biggest problem is that I don't see things exactly in the same way you do, ergo, I must be doing something horribly wrong.

Not that you've actually, y'know, bothered refuting any of the points I made upthread that destroyed your fallacious understanding of the system, because, as we all know, you're above such mundane things.

Seriously though, I hope you continue to enjoy a game system you so poorly understand.

As for escaping - there is no mechanical process for escaping combats - it's possible for one to hit extreme range in personal, but no RAW provision for actually leaving combat in a functional state. A flaw I've complained about since the Edge Beta. In vehicle combats, you can't even get to extreme. Another flaw I've complained about since the edge beta. Use of triumphs or Destiny to "escape" isn't actually listed - it's a common enough GM call, but it's not RAW. And since the Falcon was in combat when it escaped to the asteroid belt, it's not just a simple piloting roll, because you can't escape combat except by hyperdrive under the RAW. Even then, it's not explicit.

On this point, I think chase scene ending is extremely dependent on GM fiat. It could very easily (and rightfully) go until the chaser has to roll Perception to find the ship or person they're chasing (which could be mitigated or made much harder in certain ways, like the Falcon hiding inside that cave that turned out to be a space slug). Or it ends when the chaser is destroyed (more likely in vehicle combat with turrets where the ship being chased shoots down pursuing fighters - very likely with the frailty of the TIE).

But using Triumph/Destiny to escape seems very much like the "Escape" command during combat in a video game RPG (it just makes me think of Final Fantasy) and I don't know about that. At the same time, Destiny is very explicitly "I'm a PC and I interject a big change to the ongoing scene." Like an asteroid cave to duck into, or a cloud bank to swoop in and lose pursuit. Etc. So maybe it's not so weird after all! So just using the base rules for Destiny, that would be a way for the PCs to end a chase.

On this point, I think chase scene ending is extremely dependent on GM fiat. It could very easily (and rightfully) go until the chaser has to roll Perception to find the ship or person they're chasing (which could be mitigated or made much harder in certain ways, like the Falcon hiding inside that cave that turned out to be a space slug). Or it ends when the chaser is destroyed (more likely in vehicle combat with turrets where the ship being chased shoots down pursuing fighters - very likely with the frailty of the TIE).

Agreed on all points.

Agreed, I think it's a great way to use Destiny.

Please can we keep things civil? If I'd have known my OP would incite such responses I wouldn't have bothered asking

At the end of the day I understand that we don't yet have the Force and Destiny game, but there are so many scenes in the movies that don't have anything to do with Force powers.

I also understand that everyone has their own style of GMing and I'm more than happy to listen to everyone's styles in play. Please don't judge someone simply because you run games differently to them. I like to run games fast and loose, yet one of my players is a "rules-lawyer". My way around this is that I buy all the books and he doesn't get to read them

I like to run games fast and loose, yet one of my players is a "rules-lawyer". My way around this is that I buy all the books and he doesn't get to read them

I totally sympathize, one of my players is exactly the same. I tend to plan out my sessions in obsessive detail, but there's always a few situations where you just have to make something up when the players throw you a curveball. Whenever I make a rules ruling without consulting the books and making sure it's precisely in line with past situations that resembled this one, he gets all huffy and argumentative. It tends to eat up lots of game time.

Yeah I think the only movie scenes most people will have problems with after Age of Rebellion is out are Hoth and the space and ground portions of Endor. And those will be doable as long as you focus on a small portion of the fight and keep most of the battle in the background.

I remember one time in an alternate universe campaign there was a 78 capital ship battle over Kaut, which was rebelling against the Old Republic. Now before this the largest battle the PCs had participated in had a total of 9 capital ships, mostly frigates, gunships and corvettes plus 2 light cruisers. We rolledd that one out fine since every rebel ship had a PC on it (We were part of the rebellion obviously).. So for some reason rather than keeping most of the 78 capital ship battle of screen and just rolling activities linked to the PC ships the GM decided to roll out the entire battle. It took 3 sessions before the Republic attackers retreated. I imagine trying to roll the entire space Battle of Endor with no space mass combat rules would be much the same.