Oh goodness, next we'll be debating the difference between a koiogran and an immelmann.

The one that gets me is saying squad instead of squadron. A squad is people. A squadron is vehicles. Very petty, I know but it just niggles...

This is something that used to bother me because in air force jargon, a Squadron means 12-15 aircraft. What I've seen most (with the exception of TIE Swarms) is more of a flight (3-5 aricraft) in formations.

However I'm used to it and now guiltily say "my squad looks like ..." all the time lol

just shows how much time can affect a person's point of view3

**edited for correct wordage

Oh goodness, next we'll be debating the difference between a koiogran and an immelmann.

Koiogran and Immelmann should be capitalized!

Oh goodness, next we'll be debating the difference between a koiogran and an immelmann.

Wasn't really a debate since there's nothing to debate. They're different maneuvers with different results. But while you mentioned it an Immelmann is essentially a k-turn since there is no 3rd dimension on the play mat. A K-turn would be more akin to a Crazy Ivan in submarine talk, but there's really no way to do a 0 radius of turn flip aerodynamically if you have a velocity vector in air. In space, I imagine K-turns as the ships using forward and side mounted thrusters like our modern space craft use to position themselves and then re engaging their main propulsion systems to radically change direction of travel. Doable, but probably a finesse move, hence the stress.

Oh goodness, next we'll be debating the difference between a koiogran and an immelmann.

Koiogran and Immelmann should be capitalized!

You know, I had them both capitalized originally, changed them to try and satisfy the squiggly red lines, and then just gave up.

The one that gets me is saying squad instead of squadron. A squad is people. A squadron is vehicles. Very petty, I know but it just niggles...

This is something that used to bother me because in air force jargon, a Squadron means 12-15 aircraft. What I've seen most (with the exception of TIE Swarms) is more of a flight (3-5 aricraft) in formations.

However I'm used to it and now guiltily say "my squad looks like ..." all the time lol

just shows how much time can effect a person's point of view

*affect

I agree, this thread is shallow and pedantic.

Hmm, quite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxANht7yBV4

Irregardless, your all hoping to preform at you're bestest. Its not like anyone isnt trying there hardest hear to speak good english.

Irregardless, your all hoping to preform at you're bestest. Its not like anyone isnt trying there hardest hear to speak good english.

The sad thing is, there are probably people who won't get it.

grammer Are four loser,

Irregardless is in the dictionary.

Irregardless, your all hoping to preform at you're bestest. Its not like anyone isnt trying there hardest hear to speak good english.

The sad thing is, there are probably people who won't get it.

I don't get it; I can't read that.

Irregardless, your all hoping to preform at you're bestest. Its not like anyone isnt trying there hardest hear to speak good english.

I haven't heard anyone here speak anything.

Squadron:

From Miriam's dictionary:

1

: a unit of military organization: as

a : a cavalry unit higher than a troop and lower than a regiment

b : a naval unit consisting of two or more divisions and sometimes additional vessels

c (1) : a unit of the United States Air Force higher than a flight and lower than a group (2) : a military flight formation

2

: a large group of people or things <a squadron of limos>

I'm not certain what the definition of a flight or group is... but c: seems to indicate that squadron is not incorrect in its usage in star wars.

So I spent some time in the USMC, and know a little about theUSAF, so I'll give it to you how I know it.about

A flight is 20 people or so. A squadron is about 4-6 flights. Several Squadrons make a group and several groups make a Wing.

So "Squadron" is an aeronautical term. Squad on the other hand if for infantry. I guess squadron could be used for vehicles too. But if its a vehicle, we call the leader the VC or Vehicle Commander, TC (tank commander) and so on. But ive never heard "squadron" referred to as a group of ground vehicles, only planes and such.

Eyeless, et al,

As a member of the us military and former member of a US Army Cavalry SQUADRON, I can tell you that the term does not just apply to aerial vehicles but to ground vehicles as well. In the US Army, a Cavalry Squadron is a unit of battalion size. Equivalents in US Army Terminology would be...

Team = 2-4 men (usually), may also be referred to as a Crew if manning a heavy weapon or vehicle.

Squad = 2+ Teams (usually 2 in US Army, 3 In USMC) not usually used with vehicles except when referring to carried personnel.

Section = several Teams/Crews (typically refers to vehicle based units-especially in Armor or Cavalry units, Artillery, heavy weapons and non-maneuver units, like a Mess section or a Staff section.

Platoon = 2+ Squads (if referring to personnel, like Infantry) or 2+ Sections if a vehicular unit, like Armor or Cavalry.

Company = 2+ Platoons or Sections (most common usage) or Battery if Artillery or Troop if Cavalry.

Battalion = 2= Companies/Batteries or 2+ Cavalry Troops.

Regiment = 1+ Battalions/Squadrons (rarely used in the US Army,except when tracing historical lineage or when referring to the largest size Cavalry unit), I believe the USMC still maintains the Regiment as a deployable unit but most units are actually deployed in Task Forces comprised of different units.

In British parlance (and those that follow the British pattern: Australia, Canada, etc...), a Section = a Squad/several Teams. A Troop is a platoon-sized unit of Marines, Tanks or Cavalry. A Squadron is a Company-sized unit of Marines, Tanks or Cavalry. A Regiment is a Battalion-size unit of Marines, Tanks or Cavalry, or anything larger than a Battalion.

What the hell does this have to do with X- wing? Well, the term Squadron refers to an organization of generally fixed/specified size and is a standing organization, at least for administrative purposed. Examples: Red Squadron, Rogue (or is it Rouge) Squadron, Dagger Squadron, etc... A Flight is usually 2-4(?) fighters. A Squad could be any small unit, possibly of an ad hoc nature. In other words, what most people fly, when creating a hundred-point force for XWM, can justifiably be called a "Squad" (as in a small ad hoc force) as they rarely consist of all the same ship types; neither are they likely from the same administrative unit, nor anywhere close to the official strength of such a unit. A possible exception would be a TIE Swarm which usually consists of 6-8 TIEs, which is 1/2 to 3/4 the official strength of an Imperial squadron.

For those totally bored with this conversation... my apologies. For those (few) who are interested... "your welcome"

Chris

Let's be fair with the whole squad versus squadron thing, we all bring with us a lot of experience from a variety of sources, not the least of which are other games. In any given miniatures game, a small group of similar units is often referred to as a squad. Regardless of how technical we want to be, common usage is every bit as influential as the proper lexical meaning of a word. Irregardless is a word (if a confusing one), and squads can be squadrons and vice versa.

We should honour Max Immelmann, the inventor of the early koiogran.

Yeah koiogran is a bit different, though. You don't get 'height' in space.

The enemy's gate is down?

The one that gets me is saying squad instead of squadron. A squad is people. A squadron is vehicles. Very petty, I know but it just niggles...

This is something that used to bother me because in air force jargon, a Squadron means 12-15 aircraft. What I've seen most (with the exception of TIE Swarms) is more of a flight (3-5 aricraft) in formations.

However I'm used to it and now guiltily say "my squad looks like ..." all the time lol

just shows how much time can effect a person's point of view

*affect

oops, haha my bad

Thanks

Hey, just because we know the difference doesn't mean our stupid smartphones do! And they are running the show these days.

I guess how many grammar errors one can take is just personal preference. Or is it perferance? Thanks, now we're all messed up.

I just want to see the official language changed to make it a murder of TIEs, and a pod of X-wings.

With regard to the whole squad vs. squadron thing; It really doesn't matter at all. I am pretty sure when the TIE's make their appearance during the Battle of Yavin the radio call is made as, "Squad leaders, we've picked up a new group of enemy signals. Enemy fighters and they're coming your way". Shorthand over the radio in the military is common as are non-standard nick-names (Squint, Dupe, Wishbone, anyone?) In fact, most pilots will refer to their formation of aircraft as a flight, despite the number of aircraft, in order to convey the size of the formation, ( "You, this is Me. Flight of X Aircraft RP inbound for blank PZ") . Don't be surprised when I tell you that pilots are the king of shorthand radio chatter and not just pilots, but the people who are relaying that information to them from the ground.

In fact, this brings up another topic from a while back, when people tried to figure out what "...Three marks, at two-ten" meant. I think at one point in time someone said that, "pilots don't express degrees like that". I am saying that pilots basically do whatever they want, especially when it comes to talking on the radio. I have personally heard pilots express degrees as hundreds, tens, and single digit numerals. To me, two-ten is 30 degrees off of my direct six o'clock (one-eight-zero).

I am just a grunt in the Army, but my current job requires me to be an Air Traffic Controller of sorts, controlling PZ's of 30 plus helicopters. I have heard a lot of really weird sounding shorthand that made sense as it was used.

If real life is not perfect, why should we expect fantasy to be?

Three marks at two ten means three bogies at 210 deg...

Three marks at two ten means three bogies at 210 deg...

How do we know Rebels don't use radians?

Cause that's like 1200 deg.

Thinking more about it that had to be delivered in relative to either the observer or relative to the direction of travel of who he was talking to. Usually, objects are given in degrees if using true or magnetic reference and then clock position if relative (although you could give relative in degrees as well you'd just have to specify). But since it's space there is no north to reference to so you would have to deliver it in reference to relative position and direction of travel. I suppose in space you'd have to give directions in z space with 3 plots or as a Squad (or Squadron) pick a point that's 'north' and refer things in reference to that where it is relative to that point. Thoughts? 210 also does not indicate height either which never made sense to me either.