It has been a little while since Star Trek Attack Wing has come out. And a while since the inevitable comparisons between it an x-wing. I think many of the original comparisons were knee-jerk reactions. We didn't really know Attack Wing well enough to make an accurate comparison.

Models:

The first thing you notice is the difference in the models. X-wing models are amazing and Star Trek Models are fair. Part of this comes from less attention to detail on the part of Wizkids, but part of it comes from the fact that (IMO) Star Trek ships don't look as cool (at least at the detail level) as Star Wars Ships.

That being said, the bases and posts in Attack Wing are superior. A notch instead of little nubs that stick out is just a better design and the posts in Attack Wing don't break nearly as often

License and Factions:

A big part of this for me is simply the fact that I like Star Wars more than I like Star Trek (I like both, but I have a favorite)

Attack Wing has tons of more factions four main ones now and lots more to come. But I don't feel like these factions are as well thought out. With the last release I had to ask myself do the Romulans really need another tiny cloaked support ship. But that leads to the other issue with the factions in Attack Wing. You can mix and match pretty much all you want. You don't even take penalties for having ships from different factions in your fleet. I have always played faction pure fleets, but this isn't even really the way the game was designed to play. In Attack Wing's defense, Star Trek is one property that justifies mixing up your factions more than just about any property I could think of. But I feel like the net effect of the way factions work is you get two kinds of fleets, faction pure fleets, and super fleets where all the various special rules are combined in tournament winning combinations.

In the end I prefer the Star Wars, Factions system better

Rules Differences:

It is pretty obvious that of the two games Attack Wing was made second and they learned a few things from X-wing. Things like disabling torpedoes instead of discarding them. Not that I think the disable mechanic works well for Star Wars ordnance as well as it does in the Star Trek world. But the disable mechanic allows for a lot more interesting possible upgrades.

The biggest change is the way Attack Wing handles pilots/captains. Instead of combing them on the same card Attack Wing has you buy your captain and you ship separate. They don't have mid range PS un-named captain like they do with the different squadrons in X-wing. I really like this innovation In Attack Wing.

More to come....

In the end, it's Fantasy Flight vs Wizkids. I know which company and philosophies I prefer.

The final comparison is.....there is no comparison! Yes I know Attack Wing uses dials, which they licensed the right to do so from FFG, but that is it. They are 2 completely different games. If you like 1 or both fine....I think I speak for most on the official FFG "Star Wars X-Wing Miniatures Game" forums that posta like this = dead horse + stick.

I don't mind reading about attack wing. I have no intent to purchase. They lost me at not being starwars, crappy models just adds icing to that cake. Still it is interesting to hear about what xwing could have been, and thankfully isn't. It would be neat to see FF learn from WK and give us Star Wars fleet scale. Admiral ackbar with home 1 would be epic fun.

Attack wing huh?....

Anyone remember a game called mage knight ?

Wiz kids will do attack wing the same way they did mage knight.

And then you will be left with no support, no one to game with and boxes full of ships that sit in your attic.

Everytime you look at them you will just sigh and say "would have, could have joined the dance."

Im not gonna talk smack about wiz kraps, but they are the proverbial turd that needs flushed from the gaming industry.

The final comparison is.....there is no comparison! Yes I know Attack Wing uses dials, which they licensed the right to do so from FFG, but that is it. They are 2 completely different games. If you like 1 or both fine....I think I speak for most on the official FFG "Star Wars X-Wing Miniatures Game" forums that posta like this = dead horse + stick.

I think you've got it the wrong way around about this...the reason Wizkids has Attack Wing is because FFG needed their dial copyright (either knowingly or unknowingly) http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_nrep.asp?eidm=120 and in exchange for it licensed them the basic rules concept.

My main complaints about the attack wing - aside from the inevitable "Picard-on-Warbird" shenanigans, is that there seems far less attention given to balance - named versions of ships are just "better" for a pittance of points increase.

Plus I really dislike the way unique stuff has been handed out at the OP events.

Now FFG has done the same, and I love it. The difference is, that FFG's handouts are unique art versions of cards you can get if you didn't make it (or didn't place high enough). I love my movie screenshot Mauler Mithel, and started doing a black squadron force specifically because I got it, but he's no better than any other Mauler Mithel in game. Wizkids rewards and prize support are ships and game options you cannot get if you couldn't make it to that event, and which make a big deal to the game balance.

wonder why they just didn't revamp starfleet battles... seems like attackwing over simplified everything.. I also don't like that the ships are out of scale.. in attack wing they could make it waaay more interesting if the ships were in scale as they tend to be closer over all scale wise then say Starwars ships which are all over the place size wise when it comes to the BIG ships....

I never liked the idea of a Star Trek battle game, if you see what kind of tactics were used in for instance DS9, the writers there seemed to have about as much tactical insight as a three year old raised in a hippie commune.

The main strategy used seemed to be something like "let's put everyone in a big line and charge".

There's no flanking, no cloaking, just two big clouds colliding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I66ffMMpEe8

Whereas Star Wars used footage from dogfights.

The flavour for Star Trek is just wrong.

wonder why they just didn't revamp starfleet battles... seems like attackwing over simplified everything.. I also don't like that the ships are out of scale.. in attack wing they could make it waaay more interesting if the ships were in scale as they tend to be closer over all scale wise then say Starwars ships which are all over the place size wise when it comes to the BIG ships....

Star Fleet Battles is a separate company that only has license to use Original Series ships and so forth. Its still in print and has been pretty much continuously since the seventies.

That being said, the company that prints SFB (ADB, Inc) would never have done miniatures like Attack Wing has. They have a relatively new line of miniatures, and they are literally holding up production to get the placement of the phasers correct. The attention to detail is amazing.

wonder why they just didn't revamp starfleet battles... seems like attackwing over simplified everything.. I also don't like that the ships are out of scale.. in attack wing they could make it waaay more interesting if the ships were in scale as they tend to be closer over all scale wise then say Starwars ships which are all over the place size wise when it comes to the BIG ships....

Star Fleet Battles is a separate company that only has license to use Original Series ships and so forth. Its still in print and has been pretty much continuously since the seventies.

That being said, the company that prints SFB (ADB, Inc) would never have done miniatures like Attack Wing has. They have a relatively new line of miniatures, and they are literally holding up production to get the placement of the phasers correct. The attention to detail is amazing.

That's my main problem with the SFB game as well, though. I have a copy of the Starfleet Battles "Captains Edition" rulebook.

It's as thick as an X-Wing core set. Not the core set rulebook, the box . And there's virtually no background and no ship stats in it. It's all rules.

B5wars was the same. I don't mind a concept in game where you 'overcharge' one system at the expense of others, but I don't want to spend five minutes allocating power and sensor locks before each turn.

I think for me the problem that I have with Attack Wing is that it is essentially trying to do capital ship combat with fighter dogfighting rules. The movement seems off... is the best way I can describe it.

I come from the old FASA Star Trek Combat Simulator point of view and I was excited by the idea of Attack Wing... the final product leave me wanting to be honest. Jousting in FASA's game was interesting because of the resource (power) allocation. In Attack Wing (at least in the Organized Play Events) there was either a planet to manuver around or orbital platforms. Sure I could land troops on the planet or send an "Away Team" to take the station but manuvering didn't seem... challenging.

Finally I will say aside from all this the mixing and matching of the factions is a bit annoying. Takes away, in my opinion, from the flavor that is Star Trek.

Star Wars, from what I have enjoyed so far, does an excellent job of capturing the dogfight feel you see in the movies. I just wish there were more obstacles to manuver around... I am hoping that the Rebel Transport and Tantive expansions help to add more excitement to the game.

I will finally admit... I am kinda looking forward to seeing the Borg in Attack Wing. Not looking forward to the mixing and matching but the previews seem to show that a lot of the higher end Borg stuff is Borg ship specific.

Attack Wing takes dogfighting rules and applies them to capital ships. It just doesn't work for me. Trek battles were always meant to invoke old time naval battles, with fleet movements and broadsides and the like. Using a system designed for swooping and banking and such isn't a very good fit.

As for the models, the ones in the starter box and the initial wave of expansions were pretty bad, but they've gotten better as they've gone on. But I've got too much time and money invested in X-Wing to play essentially the same game with a different coat of paint.

Attack Wing takes dogfighting rules and applies them to capital ships. It just doesn't work for me. Trek battles were always meant to invoke old time naval battles, with fleet movements and broadsides and the like. Using a system designed for swooping and banking and such isn't a very good fit.

As for the models, the ones in the starter box and the initial wave of expansions were pretty bad, but they've gotten better as they've gone on. But I've got too much time and money invested in X-Wing to play essentially the same game with a different coat of paint.

I'm happy with X-wing for a 'dogfight' game.

If I want a 'fleet battle' game (unless FFG pulls a blinder and brings out some sort of clone wars or twilight imperium fleet game), I'm waiting for Hawk Wargames to bring out "Dropfleet Commander" - it's the naval half of Dropzone Commander, and he's got Andy Chambers (he of Battlefleet Gothic) writing the rules.

Plus: mahoosive battleship/carrier thing that star wars types will appreciate.

I want one of these. And I want a massive sound system with "klendathu drop" on loop.

Imo both games are their own game. They have separate strategies and ship mechanics. How broke would it be if an x-wing ship had a white backwards 1?

I will say one thing, the borg to me look like the antithesis of fun. Which I guess makes sense thematically, but not sure they shouldn't have been handled more like DS 9, a big brick that is central to a mission or tournament.

Both games use movement dial and the exact same movement templates. There is very little difference rule wise. Companies aside, AW has merit but Xwing is better over all. There are better ST choices than AW.

Watching that video really points out the scaling issues with the ships

AW is just a mess. The models are crap, there's tons of balance issues, ship movement doesn't feel right, and they're way too fragile. In the movies and TV shows it takes a massive amount of damage to take one out, but in AW they often go down as fast as a TIE fighter. It never feels like two heavyweights going 10 rounds.

I play it because a buddy is a huge Star Trek fan, but even he agrees X-Wing is a better implementation.

I have no hopes for the dragon version at all.

The final comparison is.....there is no comparison! Yes I know Attack Wing uses dials, which they licensed the right to do so from FFG, but that is it. They are 2 completely different games. If you like 1 or both fine....I think I speak for most on the official FFG "Star Wars X-Wing Miniatures Game" forums that posta like this = dead horse + stick.

I think you've got it the wrong way around about this...the reason Wizkids has Attack Wing is because FFG needed their dial copyright (either knowingly or unknowingly) http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_nrep.asp?eidm=120 and in exchange for it licensed them the basic rules concept.

No I had it right. In "they licensed the right to do so" I mean the system those dials have. I know that Wizkids has every type of "game dial" copyright under the sun. They sucked those up as bad as WoTC did "CCGs"....right down to the size of the card.

In the movies and TV shows it takes a massive amount of damage to take one out, but in AW they often go down as fast as a TIE fighter. It never feels like two heavyweights going 10 rounds.

I disagree. I feel like the ships got damaged and/or destroyed pretty quickly the majority of the time in the movies and show. How many times would the enterprise get attacked on TNG and suddenly be down most of their shields after a few hits?

The only real "slug fest" I can think of was the final battle in Nemesis.

In the movies and TV shows it takes a massive amount of damage to take one out, but in AW they often go down as fast as a TIE fighter. It never feels like two heavyweights going 10 rounds.

I disagree. I feel like the ships got damaged and/or destroyed pretty quickly the majority of the time in the movies and show. How many times would the enterprise get attacked on TNG and suddenly be down most of their shields after a few hits?

The only real "slug fest" I can think of was the final battle in Nemesis.

And it's even worse from DS9. Just looking at any DS9 footage, you would think the Star Trek galaxy builds its ships out of plywood.

Arguably fragile ships compared to powerful weapons is more 'realistic', depending on who you ask, but it certainly makes for less Operatic Space Opera. Probably why in the one-on-one show combats, ships seemed to last longer. DS9 really seemed to love explosions and the 'war is brutal' trope.

Starfleet Battles ships though... THEY are TANKS, as anyone who's played SFB or Starfleet Command would probably testify.

I love both games myself. But I feel AW needs a fairer analysis in this thread.

Most of the pros of X wing mentioned here I agree with. I wish AWs models were better quality. But I am a minis painter so I can always fix that. the models are actually more robust than the x-wing models. I agree the size is rather wonky, but over the various sizes of ships in a AW, it would be really hard to get the scale correct. But the paint jobs on the Star Trek ships has been getting better. Not as good as the x-wing ships, but a definite improvement.

if you want combat the game to be equal what was seen on the screen, then you should be able to kill a TIE fighter with one shot. In most games of x-wing that I play, it usually takes at least two hits to kill a TIE fighter.

also on a side note, Star Trek did show some crappy tactics I will agree with that. I'm sure that they would have been better using Star Wars tactics. I mean when you have to destroy the exhaust port on the Death Star, you just fly full bore through a trench. you don't need other fighters providing cover for your six above you. That would just be silly.

however I think Star Trek excels in 2 things, first the factions. Yes mixing and matching Picard on the Valdore can get cheesy, but it also allows for something interesting what if combinations. combinations only limited by your imagination. You can't put it in an x-wing. I'm not saying you should do it all the time, but you should be allowed to. That's why I like the fact you can put different captains on different ships. I myself don't normally do that, I in fact normally play faction Pure fleets, but if someone else wants to do it they should be allowed. Plus attack wing has many factions. We have at least 9 factions to play with, where X Wing has only 2 factions.

the one I like the most about attack wing are the tournament events. Everybody gets a participation prize. And some people go away with limited edition ships. Some people seem to think that the limited edition ships break the game. That is simply not true the card is one of the best captains in the game and he is available in the starter set. There is one limited edition prize card that can create some pretty bad combos, but at least where I am it hasn't been used to the point of ruining the game.I am sorry but this is where Wizkids excels. Fantasy Flight really needs to rework their prize support system. I pay money to play in all I get is a card with a different art on it? And if I win I get some acrylic tokens the just look different than the ones I can get at applied perspectives? they can do better than that. This game is making money for them hand over fist and they got smarter than this.

The scenarios in attack we are vastly superior. Every month is a new scenario with new rules and new objectives. Affiliate that works for this month won't be ideal for next month. Each of the scenarios has its own story to it even. It makes you feel like you are playing in an episode of the show. All x-wing does is 6 asteroids, 6 asteroids, and look 6 asteroids.it gets a little old after a while.

I am also not a fan of the 75 minute 5 round tourneys. AW does 3 60 minute roubds. Plus i have never had to be at an AW event until Sunday morning.

I am NOT saying that attack wing is superior to X Wing. That is a personal choice. But you cannot that attack when does have its merits.

LE's haven't broken the game yet. Considering how they are ramping up the number of LE's, ie the new sealed, blind option, good luck with Wizkid's track record.

LE's haven't broken the game yet. Considering how they are ramping up the number of LE's, ie the new sealed, blind option, good luck with Wizkid's track record.

Heroclix hasn't broken yet. It's rules are too complicated, but the game is still viable in tournament play and it's been going for over a decade.

Captian, I think you are being unfair to say the only senecio in xwing is six asteroids. I will take that as hyperbole.