An undertaking, regarding Math Wing

By DraconPyrothayan, in X-Wing

What about the lack of one forwards and the effect it has on ships. The 1 Forward seems to be the most important move in the game.

I am interested as to why you think this. Please explain further :)

This is why the 0 move is so nice on the Lambda.

Beyond that a 1 forward allows you to tail ships with relative ease(especially if you have a longer K-turn, whereas large ships and Ties will overshoot a 1 forward ship relatively quickly.

Fast movement in this game rarely helps in this game. A 5 Forward is unnecesary and relatively useless, as it rarely gives you time to make shots. Even 4 forwards don't see much use. The inverse is true of K-turns, which want to be as fast as possible to make sure you avoid colliding with them.

This isn't true for all ships, as flankers can use high speed manuevers to get range one shots from the side, and Firesprays enjoy overshooting enemies, but by and large the best way for small fighters to make lots of shots is small forward adjustments.

What about the lack of one forwards and the effect it has on ships. The 1 Forward seems to be the most important move in the game.

I am interested as to why you think this. Please explain further :)
In X-wing engineering your attacks and maintaining lines of fire is incredibly important. One of the best ways to do this is to slow play your movement across the field. 1 Forwards allow you to space yourself carefully. The differences between a 2 and 3 hard turn are negligable, and 1 turns are very rare(but useful). Being stuck without a 1 forward makes the ship fly much faster, which cuts the ships positioning ability significantly.

This is why the 0 move is so nice on the Lambda.

Beyond that a 1 forward allows you to tail ships with relative ease(especially if you have a longer K-turn, whereas large ships and Ties will overshoot a 1 forward ship relatively quickly.

Fast movement in this game rarely helps in this game. A 5 Forward is unnecesary and relatively useless, as it rarely gives you time to make shots. Even 4 forwards don't see much use. The inverse is true of K-turns, which want to be as fast as possible to make sure you avoid colliding with them.

This isn't true for all ships, as flankers can use high speed manuevers to get range one shots from the side, and Firesprays enjoy overshooting enemies, but by and large the best way for small fighters to make lots of shots is small forward adjustments.

Well reasoned, and well spoken. I shall have to figure out how to rate all of the controversies along similar lines.

1 v 5 Forward has been partially answered now (The 5 Forward is great at disengaging from combat. He that fights and runs away...)

1 v 3 Turn (Tight vs Distance. My instincts say the 1 is better, but I won't feel well about it without a proper debate)

1 v 3 Bank (Tight vs Distance. I prefer the 3 here, as ships without a 1 Bank typically have a 1 Turn option instead. Still want a proper debate).

Koiogran (2,3,4,5) Weights

Stop Weight (a modifier of the 1 Forward weight. They have a similar job, but the Stop does it better).

My point is that the rarity of bearings and distances to value are a false correlation. FFG could easily have enforced rarity on any particular manoeuvre, but it wouldn't make them more useful. If every ship could do a 1 Straight, bank, and turn, would that make the manoeuvres less valuable?

Just because the current data appears to match your theory doesn't make it true. The TIE Defender is going to have every bank and turn available, yet people are complaining it's a poor dial? Are the 5K and Stop manoeuvres truly more valuable than a 1 Turn?

It'd be far better to value them based on how often they're used in actual play.

I think some of these points probably have a lot to do with why I think the X-wing has the better dial (over the z-95 headhunter) And some other various stream of conscious thoughts relating to your task

While you can divorce the dial from the action economy, I don't think you can divorce it from the stress economy, which is related to the action economy. A large number of players seek to remove the stress in the turn following the red maneuver. I am guessing that the kind (Bearing and speed) (and not number) of Green maneuvers available determine how effective a ship is at recovering from stress - while the number of commonly used red maneuvers (Kturn vs 4 forward) will determine how often a ship needs to go into recovery.

Looking at the Y and tieD, The Y-wing has no green banks or turns - Nor does the revealed Tie defender dial. We can mitigate this by slapping an R2 on the y-wing, but not the defender. Both ships have 4 red moves, but the Y-wing has 3 red bearings (Straight, turn and k-turn) - while the defender only has 1 red bearing (turns). The y-wing doesn't have the super useful 1 turn, but the defender's is red. The Defender has more green options, but like the Y they are all forward. The 2 turn however, is very useful in a large number of situations, and is probably a strike against the defender. Both ships can position their arc how they need to in any given turn - but if they need to remove stress - they become probably the most limited ships in the game. An R2 unit practically jumps the Y-wing up to interceptor/a-wing status - when comparing available green bearings. (3)

Certainly, there is probably a set of value gaps between the number of green bearings. 1 green bearing (Y-wing, Heavy) vs 2 green bearings (X-wing, standard) vs 3 green bearings (Interceptor, Light)

Now, Jumping back to the Z95 and Z-wing (Two standard dials, with one being the definition of your average dial) the Z-95 has the 3 k-turn, and the 2 speed green banks. The X-wing has a 4 k-turn and green 1 banks, which give you a large difference in exactly how you can angle, and position your arc while recovering from the k-turn's stress. I felt that this is not insignificant when comparing those two dials - and makes the X-wing dial more desirable.

What about the lack of one forwards and the effect it has on ships. The 1 Forward seems to be the most important move in the game.

I am interested as to why you think this. Please explain further :)
In X-wing engineering your attacks and maintaining lines of fire is incredibly important. One of the best ways to do this is to slow play your movement across the field. 1 Forwards allow you to space yourself carefully. The differences between a 2 and 3 hard turn are negligable, and 1 turns are very rare(but useful). Being stuck without a 1 forward makes the ship fly much faster, which cuts the ships positioning ability significantly.

This is why the 0 move is so nice on the Lambda.

Beyond that a 1 forward allows you to tail ships with relative ease(especially if you have a longer K-turn, whereas large ships and Ties will overshoot a 1 forward ship relatively quickly.

Fast movement in this game rarely helps in this game. A 5 Forward is unnecesary and relatively useless, as it rarely gives you time to make shots. Even 4 forwards don't see much use. The inverse is true of K-turns, which want to be as fast as possible to make sure you avoid colliding with them.

This isn't true for all ships, as flankers can use high speed manuevers to get range one shots from the side, and Firesprays enjoy overshooting enemies, but by and large the best way for small fighters to make lots of shots is small forward adjustments.

Well reasoned, and well spoken. I shall have to figure out how to rate all of the controversies along similar lines.

1 v 5 Forward has been partially answered now (The 5 Forward is great at disengaging from combat. He that fights and runs away...)

1 v 3 Turn (Tight vs Distance. My instincts say the 1 is better, but I won't feel well about it without a proper debate)

1 v 3 Bank (Tight vs Distance. I prefer the 3 here, as ships without a 1 Bank typically have a 1 Turn option instead. Still want a proper debate).

Koiogran (2,3,4,5) Weights

Stop Weight (a modifier of the 1 Forward weight. They have a similar job, but the Stop does it better).

On Banks I find that they are all moderatley equivalent but they tend to be the least useful manuevers outside of being the shuttles only turns and giving Fett some extra manueverability. You are wrong about hard 1 turns. Very few ships with 1 Banks get 1 hard Turns. (Only the Falcon has the entire set of 1s without reds. The B-wing is the only other ship to have them all and only the Defender has the banks and 1 turns.)

1 Hard turn is easily the best, followed by 2 and 3 being nominally equal, with 2 a little bit better unless 3 avoids an Asteroid. The 2 Hard turn and 1 forward are the moves I use most in the game. That's my personal thoughts.

And as I said, the more speed ona K-turn the better. Which is one of the Tie-Bombers greatest strengths.

From there Big ships manuever significantly differently, and ships with Turrets Value hard turns and speed more than just about anything, as a weaving pattern of movement allows them to buck firing arcs while returning fire.

Firesprays value high speed manuevers more than most and banks a little better, as a bank followed by a hard turn can keep the main combat in arc much better than a hard turn if K-turning isn't an option.

Edited by Aminar