Instead of that lame-ass bank loan, it should have had the following:

Investment: Instead of having an encounter here, you may spend $5 to take a Retainer.

I like the Bank the way it is... saved out butt the other day while we where shopping for a certain spell (Arcane Insight) and ran out of doh!

Go to newspaper to get a free retainer

Our Jenny always takes out a loan and sometimes Little Emily will since she always intends to be the Deputy.

$5 for a retainer on the first turn would be too useful. I'd always do it. I'd probably pay up to $7 or $8 (if I had it or borrow it from another player). Especially if I could go back and get another one, if the first one wore out. After that, the gamble gets too high.

I do think there should be more jobs that earn money in this game. Or at least a Mythos that gives everybody back their starting money.

Money is overrated, of course. After you get it, you have to take a turn or too to spend it. Money at the beginning is great. After that it usually just piles up.

Who is emily? :/ Unless you mean Wendy, and Wendy can't take a Bank Loan...

Also, even as Jenny I don't take a Bank Loan... what's the point? she has enough money as it is, and I hate keeping track of uselss things.

kroen said:

Little Emily is my daughter (she's in the barely readable, grayed out signature line). Yes, Little Wendy is too young to take out a bank loan soher first move is always to visit Hibb's roadhouse.

Enough money? Is there ever enough money? That's starts her with $22 for her next stop, the Curiositie shop. Then her next several turns are spent shopping. Eventually she'll be able to even pay back the loan.

but there's no reason for her to pay back the loan, as worse case scenario you don't gain money in a turn... and then you're stuck with the loan for the rest of the game, keeping useless track of it.

kroen said:

We score points, so unpaid loans reduce our point value, though we don't panic over it. Usually Jenny can pay back her loan but not always. Our average 4 player game only lasts 18 turns and if he spends all of her first money, she sometimes runs out of turns. There's more month left at the end of her money.

The Deputy is less likely to pay back the loan, but at least she won't be losing all her items or spending being forced to trade them away before she goes to the poor farm.

kroen said:

You only have a 58% chance of keeping a retainer long enough to collect $8. And that would only be a net gain of $3. Plus you'd have to wait four turns to get it. I'd rather keep loans the way they are.

I love the bank! Because it's always so tempting, and the joy of having spending money gradually turns into panic and dread, which (to me) is a quintessential Arkham Horror experience. Quite often I just take out a loan in order to avoid being bored, even if I don't need the money.

And of course none of you are mentioning money laundering— taking out loans and passing out money and items to other players while deliberately defaulting on loans.

Avi_dreader said:

Too much pain for not enough gain.

Loans? Go for Lola Hayes.

Starts with $6, gets $10.

Enough to buy TWO skills unless you screw up your roll. Pass everything off except your derringer, and you're a machine.

One game I even started with the magical weapon you can't lose. I was awesome!

I think Lola may be my favorite investigator.

I think I've only used Bank Loans once, and that was in my last game when the Mad Bomber appeared. Still, I feel it's a mechanic that really doesn't need any tinkering.

kroen said:

Nah. Perfect strategy.

avec said:

Even worse.

Using some basic probability calculation, you gain an average of 2*1+2*(5/6)^1+2*(5/6)^2+2*(5/6)^3+...+2*(5/6)^n Dollars, which maths up to approximately $12... A net gain of $7.

Vitus_Prem said:

Okay, but another way of looking at it is that you have a greater than 50% chance of avoiding a 1 for three rolls in a row, but a less than 50% chance of avoiding a 1 for four rolls in a row (.579 vs .482). Therefore, you will probably get $8 from a retainer (not counting the $5 fee that kroen suggests), but you probably will not get $10. Though at 48% it's basically a coin toss.

Also, how is a net gain of $7 even worse than a net gain of $3?

avec said:

Ah, with "worse" I didn't mean the gain or the deal... I ment the balance. Since you get approximately $12 out of the deal, that's over 200% of what you invested to begin with. A possible "bonus" of $3 for the time you couldn't use the money you got didn't seem as unbalanced, I thought.

Several points on buying the retainer

1) You're not buying the retainer. It's termed an investment. You're just using the retainer card rules. So if there is ANY possibility of return on your investment, you're ahead. Past performance is no indicator of future returns.

2) The lower limit of the return on your investment is $4 or a $1 loss (and 2 turns of buying power and 1 turn to buy it). The upper limit is infinite (though unlikely).

3) Money earned and spent in the beginning of the game is more valuable than money spent in the middle or late in the game. How many of us have been devoured with a fat (virtual) wallet?

4) Money is overvalued in the game as it is life.

In summary, most players, I would wager, would pay the $5 for the retainer at the beginning of the game. I would become a boring and almost mandatory stop along the way. Any amount of $6 or more, would require weighing the value and some would still do it and many others wouldn't do it. For $5, I'd even take out a loan to do it. $8 would probably make it as rare as taking out a loan itself.

Also, I'm not even for doing it or changing the rule because it isn't in the spirit of the game, IMO. We're being invaded by alien beings from other worlds and I'm stopping by the bank to make an investment?

mageith said:

If it's a long term investment you'd show your unshakeable optimism, and thereby motivate the team ;D

I've only used the bank's special ability about three times in 50+ games, but I think it wouldn't be a good idea to replace it with a retainer.

There's actually an encounter at the bank that lets you buy a retainer for $5. It's where I got the idea from. But yeah, making it permanent is probably not a very good idea... although I do believe the Dunwich expansion should have came with this: (a little off topic, but still)

If you really feel that the bank needs a new function, how about a safety deposit box? Investigators could leave items there for safekeeping, or for indirect trading between themselves.

kroen said:

I have it in mine, but you can buy the pass at any depot. Few do. Always with the reason that they don't intend to go back Dunwich, etc. again in the game.

At Bexrath: In order to get into someone else's box you'll need a key to be traded somewhere. Also, it will be used as a way to avoid losing items to the loan collector.

kroen said:

I always assumed that FFG didn't do this simply because they didn't want to mess with the board. If they had to do it over again, I bet they'd include "rail pass counter" as a special ability of the train station.