GSP with Stealth and PtL is one of my go-to ships, and soon they'll only be 23 points on the board. I'd be lying if I thought they were the best thing ever to deploy, but they're fun and I do have a lot of success with them.

Will it be possible? I think the Chadraam Refit or whatever lowers the cost by two is a modification, so you can't take stealth/hull/shield and the refit.

If you want to get an idea of how Stealth Device works, roll the fourth dice after the first three. You'll be able to see how many hits the Stealth Device would eat.

If the first three block the hit, then Hull, Shield and Stealth were all irrelevant that time.

If your evade dice block more than one hit, it looks like this:

With Hull versus Stealth you're trading the chance to block more than 1 hit that you'd otherwise have taken for the risk of blocking none.

The chances of Stealth blocking more than one hit are actually a little lower because there's a chance that more than one hit isn't blocked by your initial dice, but I didn't factor that in because it depends on the attack value and range of the attacking ship and it would all get very complicated.

Haven't memorized all the upcoming stuff yet, but...

Any reason you couldn't put stealth device on a TIE Phantom, just for kicks? 5 agility dice when cloaked?

4 blanks... psh, I see your 4 blanks, and raise you a 5th blank with no evade token!

Soontir with SD and Range 3 got 1 shotted by a Rookie, yup that's happened to me.

That's adorable. I got one shotted, at range three, with a stealth device, while using Tycho, against a Rookie X-wing pilot. He rolled 2 hits and a crit. I all blanked the 5 dice. The crit was the 2 hit crit. I just blinked, cocked my head, then shook his hand while muttering "Well ****...."

And now you know the power of the Hull upgrade!

Protecting you from a 1 in 100 shot and an even less likely evade roll is not justification for Hull upgrade.

Total odds look like a .0006 chance of that set of circumstances.

I'm all about taking chances.... I love the risk reward game. But the Hull upgrade is huge for the Interceptor. For three points you can make your ship more durable, instead of adding another slim chance to evade.

Haven't memorized all the upcoming stuff yet, but...

Any reason you couldn't put stealth device on a TIE Phantom, just for kicks? 5 agility dice when cloaked?

The Phantom is getting much better things to put in it's mod slot.

Haven't memorized all the upcoming stuff yet, but...

Any reason you couldn't put stealth device on a TIE Phantom, just for kicks? 5 agility dice when cloaked?

I would say that if you can reliably generate a focus token to use for defense on that ship (multi action, recon, pilot ability) then it could be worthwhile. I'll let someone else figure out the % of rolling 5 blanks instead of 4...after 3 you need that focus token to make it really worthwhile, at 5 it can still poof, you could conceivably get up to 7 agility dice and roll all blanks... it will happen to you eventually.

Haven't memorized all the upcoming stuff yet, but...

Any reason you couldn't put stealth device on a TIE Phantom, just for kicks? 5 agility dice when cloaked?

The Phantom is getting much better things to put in it's mod slot.

Very true. Which is why I specified just for kicks.

Sometimes its fun to just go as extreme in a given area as you can, just to see what happens.

The biggest comment I see supporting SD is always "ha! You know how much damage SD has saved me? I'm rolling 4-6 dice and take no damage for like 5 shots"

My response to that is somewhere along the lines of "heh, I know the mathematical average SD is saving you... but what you seem to be failing to realize is that 40% of the time, if you were rolling 3-5 dice (and didn't have stealth) you'd still not have taken any damage. And if you spent those 3 points on a HU, ~55% of the time you'd come out even, 40% of the time you'd come out ahead, and 5% you'd be fall behind by 1 or more damage.

As for the psychological effect, yes, it can convince someone to shoot someone else, but I'd much rather take the R3 shot at an interceptor w/o tokens but with a SD vs. a TIE at R2 with a F or E. Especially if I have a 3F attack... Your 5 unfocused dice will yield 1.88 evades, whereas a 3F dice yield 1.88 as well!!! *Shock!* So, a stealth device is worth half a focus token until you get hit and then it's worth nothing.

My 3F attack has a 48% chance of connecting at R3 against a naked stealth... And if it drops to R2, that goes up to 60%. Once that first attack hits, I then have a 72% to connect, and the ship only has 2 hull left... And it's likely a high priority target (unless as others stated, you wasted it on an A wing) anyways. Consider your interceptor dead because you relied on a stealth to "save you from 5 attacks"

Edit: The reason it seems to work so well on Soontir is that he can turtle up with 2F and 1E, making him hard to hit REGARDLESS of the stealth device. I highly suggest you roll the stealth device die independent of the others to see how often it actually is 1) needed and 2) saves damage (which can happen even when you lose it btw).

To all you math experts out there (I say this with admiration/respect and a little pinch of jealousy as I am hopelessly bad at math) I propose the following...

How much damage could the following ships avoid (lets assume a generic green squad a-wing and a royal guard pilot no unique abilities)?

An a-wing with stealth device and push the limit that is focusing/evading every turn (lets assume they are getting shot at every turn)?

An a-wing with shield upgrade and push the limit that is focusing/evading every turn (lets assume they are getting shot at every turn)?

An a-wing with hull upgrade and push the limit that is focusing/evading every turn (lets assume they are getting shot at every turn)?

A tie interceptor with stealth device and push the limit that is focusing/evading every turn (lets assume they are getting shot at every turn)?

A tie interceptor with shield upgrade and push the limit that is focusing/evading every turn (lets assume they are getting shot at every turn)?

A tie interceptor with hull upgrade and push the limit that is focusing/evading every turn (lets assume they are getting shot at every turn)?

I think you need to reword what you're asking. Officially, the stealth device could avoid infinite attacks. Plus I'm not really understanding what you're saying by "damage avoid" ... are you asking specifically for the predicted hits cancelled in each scenario?

I would think a better thing would be to ask the following:

How many rounds would it take to kill (on average) each of the following, assuming it is getting shot once per turn at R2 (by a 3F attack), and it has a F+E token for defense:

A

A w/ SD

A w/ HU

A w/ SU

Int

Int w/ SD

Int w/ HU

Int w/ SU

And from there, I would go and say the following. Vs 3F attack, both ships are likely to take .18 damage each turn. If we consider that 1/3 hits on the hull is a crit (a reasonable assumption since it's likely that only 1 hit goes through at most on an attack, and there is a 33.007% of rolling at least 1 crit with 3 dice) and a crit is worth 1.25 damage, then the following is true

A = 21.374 rounds (Survives 11.11 turns before shields are stripped, and then an additional 10.26 once shields are down)

A w/ HU = 26.506 rounds (Survives 11.11 turns before shields are stripped and then an additional 15.39 w/o shields)

A w/ SU = 26.926 rounds (Survives 16.67 turns before shields are down then 10.26 w/o shields)

Int = 15.39

Int w/ HU = 20.528

Int w/ SU = 20.945 (Survives 5.55 turns before shield is down, then an additional 15.39)

So, this clearly shows that HU >>>> SU as far as point value. Stealth is a bit harder to calculate, but I'm going to say that the SD stays until it takes an aggregated 1 damage, at which point the remaining health (1 shield + 2 hull for the A, 2 hull for the int) are at normal agility. With the SD, they will be taking .08 damage each turn until it is stripped, which means it takes them 12.5 rounds to do 1 damage.

A w/ SD = 28.31

Int w/ SD = 22.76

So... if you look just at these numbers, they clearly show that SD is the best value! You clearly survive 7% longer with the SD than you do with the HU at the same point value. Heck you ever survive longer than the SU, and that costs MORE points!

The problem with these numbers is that they're not truly reflective of what happens. There will be times where you spend your focus on offense, or you BR+boost so you don't have both tokens for defense. Furthermore, this is assuming you always have a token to spend, and that you never have more than 1 ship shoot at you. These assumptions, in a 100pt battle, are just blatantly false. In reality, if all you have is a focus token, you only have a 50/50 shot (okay, 53% chance actually) of keeping your stealth after 2 attacks. Oh, and the probability of the stealth device actually doing something (remember, just because it is there doesn't mean it helps... if you rolled 5 evades and the opponent only rolled 2 hits, that stealth device doesn't help at all) is around 29%. Just saying... The more agility you have, the less likely it is to help. Though with that said, the less agility you have, the more likely it is to drop before it does anything... the two kinda balance out and at the end, higher agility does gain a slight edge. (Against 3hit attacks, the damage mitgated ends up being: 1agi SD will block .43 dmg, 3 agi will block .49, and 5 agi (3+range+obstruction) will block .52)

Stealth device a waste? Are you high? When I'm rolling 4/5 defense dice on every attack and you can't seem to get a hit in then tell me it's a waste. Shield/hull upgrade can only prevent 1 damage, stealth can stop several. Yeah you may get unlucky and lose it quick (or Blount ruins your day) but it's far from a waste. I've won several games with 2 ints undamaged because of stealth.

Wait til those dice go cold and remember your words. If you look at the attack dice and desfense dice and add up the sides you'll see this game favors the attacker when it comes to dice. One of the reasons I like this game is because of that. No turtling or playing defense....cause that's the stuff that'll get ya blown up!

Stealth Device is wasted points. Go for the Shield Upgrade, or even the Hull Upgrade.

LOL, yeah sure thing. Stealth is a lifesaver when thrown on Agility 3 ship. If you have under 3 agility go ahead and take that shield because you won't be dodging much anyway.

Easy. When choosing between Shield or Stealh, you've gotta ask yourself a question: ''Do I feel lucky?'' Well, do ya, punk?

You know that Shield, or hull, will soak the first hit and will save you from the dreaded oneshot kill(direct hit and minor explosion excluded). Shield can be useless and a waste of points or save you from 5 shots.

So... do ya, punk?

One small advantage that Hull has over Stealth, that I look forward to trying out one day, is it saves formerly 2 Hull ships from potentially being one-hit-KO'd by Proton Bombs.

4 blanks... psh, I see your 4 blanks, and raise you a 5th blank with no evade token!

Soontir with SD and Range 3 got 1 shotted by a Rookie, yup that's happened to me.

That's adorable. I got one shotted, at range three, with a stealth device, while using Tycho, against a Rookie X-wing pilot. He rolled 2 hits and a crit. I all blanked the 5 dice. The crit was the 2 hit crit. I just blinked, cocked my head, then shook his hand while muttering "Well ****...."

And now you know the power of the Hull upgrade!

Protecting you from a 1 in 100 shot and an even less likely evade roll is not justification for Hull upgrade.

Total odds look like a .0006 chance of that set of circumstances.

I'm all about taking chances.... I love the risk reward game. But the Hull upgrade is huge for the Interceptor. For three points you can make your ship more durable, instead of adding another slim chance to evade.

Personally,i always do SD and if i know i will be shot at then i evade, so i evade most of the time. And it workz quite well for me. Screw math.

The part that is really bugging me is everyone who seems to think that stealth is a 5/8 vs hull being an 8/8. This is just untrue on so many levels. Stealth device is better if you plan on evading all damage from the next two incoming attacks. The extra die does not add up to one health one hundred percent vs one attack but if you maintain the stealth past one attack it is already better than hull or shield. Part of the reason stealth is so good on high agility ships is because they can sometimes normally evade attacks quite effectively without it. Remember that stealth device only has to work once to be better than a shield upgrade as it costs one less point and a hull upgrade on a high agility ship.

The part that is really bugging me is everyone who seems to think that stealth is a 5/8 vs hull being an 8/8. This is just untrue on so many levels. Stealth device is better if you plan on evading all damage from the next two incoming attacks. The extra die does not add up to one health one hundred percent vs one attack but if you maintain the stealth past one attack it is already better than hull or shield. Part of the reason stealth is so good on high agility ships is because they can sometimes normally evade attacks quite effectively without it. Remember that stealth device only has to work once to be better than a shield upgrade as it costs one less point and a hull upgrade on a high agility ship.

I definitely get your point, but most of the time, you don't really know if it worked, right? Unless you are getting hit by as many dice as you have and then roll all evades, there's no way to be sure. Was it the really the extra die that made the difference?

The additional problem with stealth is that it will have some upcoming auto-hit problems whether or not the hit causes damage.

So... do ya, punk?

I'm your huckleberry. 98% of the time is SO for me.

I used to do this interesting experiment, where I took an evade dice and painted it a different colour, and have it represent the Stealth Device Dice. After rolling the dice a few times, I can quickly see how lousy Stealth Device really is

Anyone that wants to ignore the math and trust their feelings instead should really give this a try. Color one evade die differently. Roll your normal evade dice first. Apply any evade/focus tokens. After you have done "normal" defense resolution only roll your special SD die when you need to use it. You may be surprised at how your feelings of the usefulness of SD is offset by the reality that your normal defense resolution soaked most of the hits already. Leaving you with a mere 3/8 (5/8 if you have focus) chance to evade that final {hit/crit} when you are desperate. And remember, you need to succeed at the final roll in two separate attacks before it is better than HU by cost, or SU when avoiding a {crit}.

I think a lot of people may be overlooking one of the biggest counters to the interceptor. Ion cannons, and ion turrets. Against either of these I'd much rather have a SD than a hull upgrade. Moreover, consider the situations when that extra agility die does actually roll you an extra evade and you completely negate an attack, whereas without it you may have had to spend focus to negate an attack completely. There are other benefits to the SD than pure damage mitigation.

I used to do this interesting experiment, where I took an evade dice and painted it a different colour, and have it represent the Stealth Device Dice. After rolling the dice a few times, I can quickly see how lousy Stealth Device really is

Anyone that wants to ignore the math and trust their feelings instead should really give this a try. Color one evade die differently. Roll your normal evade dice first. Apply any evade/focus tokens. After you have done "normal" defense resolution only roll your special SD die when you need to use it. You may be surprised at how your feelings of the usefulness of SD is offset by the reality that your normal defense resolution soaked most of the hits already. Leaving you with a mere 3/8 (5/8 if you have focus) chance to evade that final {hit/crit} when you are desperate. And remember, you need to succeed at the final roll in two separate attacks before it is better than HU by cost, or SU when avoiding a {crit}.

Picking which dice is the SD ignores the fact that your probability is increased over the whole roll. You want to calculate it record all your SD enabled rolls over the course of a round. See how Statistically it changed things for you. Picking one dice is bad logic.

Actually. Do so for a tournament or 5. Bigger sample size helps.

I wonder if PTL would be the way to go, in terms of defense, if an Interceptor had three points to spend on either that or HU/SD.

I know it'd be impossible to calculate it, with the number of times you'd be able to BR and boost out of arcs, or just BR out of a few, and still be able to focus.

What's the math on one single ship shooting at me with 3 attack dice, range 2, no obstacles:

- I have HU, 3 defense dice, a focus or evade token (whichever is better in terms of defense)

- I have SD, 4 defense dice, a focus token.

- I have PTL, 3 defense dice, a focus and evade token.

oh ya, goes without saying, but Stealth Device is more useful on ships that already have a naturally high agility. Although you may see funny combos like Ibtisam + Sensor Jammer + Elusiveness + Stealth Device from time to time.

It's worse when the Hawks primary strip you interceptors stealth device at range 3

I used to do this interesting experiment, where I took an evade dice and painted it a different colour, and have it represent the Stealth Device Dice. After rolling the dice a few times, I can quickly see how lousy Stealth Device really is

Anyone that wants to ignore the math and trust their feelings instead should really give this a try. Color one evade die differently. Roll your normal evade dice first. Apply any evade/focus tokens. After you have done "normal" defense resolution only roll your special SD die when you need to use it. You may be surprised at how your feelings of the usefulness of SD is offset by the reality that your normal defense resolution soaked most of the hits already. Leaving you with a mere 3/8 (5/8 if you have focus) chance to evade that final {hit/crit} when you are desperate. And remember, you need to succeed at the final roll in two separate attacks before it is better than HU by cost, or SU when avoiding a {crit}.

Yes but for a fair comparison you also need to count how often the hull or shield upgrade actually allows you to survive an extra attack. People are under the illusion that these upgrades are 100% effective but in truth they aren't. If the enemy drops you from two hull to zero hull in one attack then that upgrade did nothing, except in the cases where you blocked a crit on the extra shield, but that is a very specific part of the damage track. I'll freely admit that the Stealth device will only give you an extra 37.5% chance of an unmodified evade, and it might not be needed, but the hull and shield camp needs to get of their consistency high horse. Hilariously low agility ships are more likely to be overkilled than high agility ships so those upgrades are just as "meh" on y-wings and B-wing.