I wonder what the new 12 point full win rule will do to swarm players? Swarms take a while to move around. Generally fewer turns in the time limit. The longer he has 6+ ships on the board, the fewer turns the game will last. To get a full win against them, one now needs to only kill a single academy tie and not lose any ships. Is avoiding combat against a swarm now a correct tactic? Especially with a Falcon or Firespray list. Stay at R3, pick off an academy when possible, and otherwise make him waste time moving the swarm around. The motivation to face all those dice seems to have been taken away. Killing 3 of the swarm ships, while not losing a ship, to get the full win is no longer required, only 1.

Could be an interesting side effect. Certainly a strategy I would consider against a below average swarm player, even though I hate it. Is this more anti-swarm from FFG?

Actually it was pointed out elsewhere this makes it easier on the swarm player in many ways.

It's hard to get a full victory when you have swarm vs swarm. But now you'll see that match ending up with a full victory a lot more often, that means more swarm lists in the top 16 and beyond.

People seemed to avoid swarm lists during Store Championship season because they found out that they take too long to play, so games rarely ended before time was up. That led to swarm players settling for modified wins, which kept them out of top cuts.

With this rule change, it'll be easier for swarm players to get full wins, which probably will encourage people to play swarms more for regionals and beyond.

The way I see it, it encourages more Falcon builds, since each Falcon is holding onto so much points, that only count when you take it out.

The way I see it, it encourages more Falcon builds, since each Falcon is holding onto so much points, that only count when you take it out.

Yeah, but they aren't intolerably hard to kill and are not actually a great defensive investment.

The way I see it, it encourages more Falcon builds, since each Falcon is holding onto so much points, that only count when you take it out.

Yeah, but they aren't intolerably hard to kill and are not actually a great defensive investment.

Until they equip themselves with Engine Upgrade or Expert Handling

A Chewbacca with Engine Upgrade or Expert Handling and Falcon title is actually quite challenging to kill and still sufficiently offensive, absolutely. Once C3-PO gets into the mix, even more so.

While I don't think the FFG change is directly pointed at any one build (why would they do that?), the 12 point threshhold certainly suspiciously aligns with the TIE and Z-95 cost point. If they had set it at 13, even, it would have fueled conspiracy theorists less, for sure. I don't think it will negate the swarm, but may take a little dent off the mini-swarm as throwing in those random TIEs may not be the auto-include they used to be.

The way I see it, it encourages more Falcon builds, since each Falcon is holding onto so much points, that only count when you take it out.

Yeah, but they aren't intolerably hard to kill and are not actually a great defensive investment.

Until they equip themselves with Engine Upgrade or Expert Handling

since each Falcon is holding onto so much points, that only count when you take it out.

True, but it also means you lose a whole lot of points if you do lose a Falcon. I could lose 3-4 ties and still be enough ahead in points to get a win.

The way I see it, it encourages more Falcon builds, since each Falcon is holding onto so much points, that only count when you take it out.

Yeah, but they aren't intolerably hard to kill and are not actually a great defensive investment.

Until they equip themselves with Engine Upgrade or Expert Handling

If you say so. A Firespray is harder to kill and can do the same.

Yes, but their blind spots are a lot easier to deal with too. Im happy not shooting at you if you cant shoot at me either, im not happy if you can shoot at me and I cant shoot at you

and yeah, the new 12pt thingy does help these kinda big ship builds, be it Falcon or named Firesprays

I'd say lowering the "full win" threshold to just 12 points is essentially removing the "modified win" by making it far closer to a near tie game. WIth a full win so easy to achieve now they really should add a modified loss to go along with the modified win to reflect how close a game really is.

I see this being a bigger boost to swarms than a nerf to them. A problem with swarms is that unless they get that overwhelming win they usually lose ships as they take out their opponents. Lose three APs en route to taking out a Falcon and you are behind until you finally get rid of that big ship. The swarm's problem has been that even after doing that you've still lost a lot of points taking out that bigger target.

What it does do, though, is nerf Bomber squads (pre-Munitions Failsafe anyways). If you weren't wanting to put one time use weapons on a ship before, you will be even less likely to do so when three botched Concussion Missiles means you just lost the game.

Nevermind this post, I misunderstood the rules.

What it does do, though, is nerf Bomber squads (pre-Munitions Failsafe anyways). If you weren't wanting to put one time use weapons on a ship before, you will be even less likely to do so when three botched Concussion Missiles means you just lost the game.

But that's not how it's counted - the card is now "flipped face down" instead of "discarded." It's not discarded or destroyed until the ship that carried it gets destroyed. Right? That's not just for Escalation, if I am understanding it correctly.

What it does do, though, is nerf Bomber squads (pre-Munitions Failsafe anyways). If you weren't wanting to put one time use weapons on a ship before, you will be even less likely to do so when three botched Concussion Missiles means you just lost the game.

I'd originally thought that as well, but I read it wrong. The only discarded cards that go into the "scoring pile" are ship cards that are destroyed and upgrades on those ship cards. The new notation added is indicating that includes upgrade cards that have been flipped over (discarded) on ships that have been destroyed.

What it does do, though, is nerf Bomber squads (pre-Munitions Failsafe anyways). If you weren't wanting to put one time use weapons on a ship before, you will be even less likely to do so when three botched Concussion Missiles means you just lost the game.

I'd originally thought that as well, but I read it wrong. The only discarded cards that go into the "scoring pile" are ship cards that are destroyed and upgrades on those ship cards. The new notation added is indicating that includes upgrade cards that have been flipped over (discarded) on ships that have been destroyed.

Ok, got it. My bad.

A Chewbacca with Engine Upgrade or Expert Handling and Falcon title is actually quite challenging to kill and still sufficiently offensive, absolutely. Once C3-PO gets into the mix, even more so.

While I don't think the FFG change is directly pointed at any one build (why would they do that?), the 12 point threshhold certainly suspiciously aligns with the TIE and Z-95 cost point. If they had set it at 13, even, it would have fueled conspiracy theorists less, for sure. I don't think it will negate the swarm, but may take a little dent off the mini-swarm as throwing in those random TIEs may not be the auto-include they used to be.

It's not really suspicious. The designers admitted that in their post about the new FAQ and tournament rules:

Under the new rules, a player only needs to destroy at least 12 squad points (the lowest squad point cost of a single ship) more than his or her opponent, which means players no longer have to build their lists with total annihilation in mind and can opt for a slightly more tactical, defensive game if they wish.

I was using "suspicious" somewhat facetiously. 12 points, as you pointed out in their post, was deliberate and will, I believe, make "throwaway" ships less attractive. This ruling may strengthen 3 ship builds, provided those three ships are all durable.

Actually from a swarm players point of view, I like the change. Makes it easier; against other swarms, full win is much more likely now; against mixed builds with large ships and small ships you can now go for the large and withdraw to some asteroids etc (if you play that way), although I still have to meet a Falcon build that withstands 2 rounds of full fire from a 8 TIE swarm without loosing one Falcon.

Also, squints can now fight swarms and get a win, as you just need to get ahead one kill and then do your dance (doesn't make the squints any better against all the other troublesome builds, though)

Probably is both a boon and a bust.

They want to emphasize the ability to take a few high end ships instead of filling up on generics, so if you can stay alive with your better stuff, or clean up enough generics, it is easier to get your win.

I think one of the previous posters had it, though. The Swarm is getting some hurt in new releases, but I think that is more of a balance as FFG takes a nod to the common play style. Even the TIE Defender preview nodded to the effectiveness of the swarm and its application.

I know there has been a lot of grumbling about partial wins causing people who should have been top ranked to be pushed down, and this might be a method to even it up, especially since both sides now have fragile cheap ships at 12. You circle each other, and one lucky shot (either ship could be killed in a single shot), could mean the match. I believe before the lucky number was 33? It also capped how many points you wanted to sink into a ship, as you didn't want one ship to mean defeat, so it pushed the overall ship point level down. With the cap at 12, I think it will now do the opposite as you may want to invest more in your ships survive-ability rather than spreading it out into a whole lot of naked generics.