Still trying to understand how upgrading checks work, exactly

By Norsehound, in Game Masters

Could someone give me a clear example?

My understanding up till now was this: The lower number modifies the higher number. So 2 ranks in Ranged (Heavy) will upgrade agility, making 2 yellows and a green when firing a Heavy Blaster.

But if you were to get say three ranks in Coercion but only have a Willpower of one, you will only ever have one yellow die for your Coercion checks because your willpower is not modified.

However, I guess this isn't the way this works?

I read you modify first (get a green) and then that becomes a yellow on the next upgrade? So that Coercion check becomes two yellows instead? Doesn't seem as straightforward to me, but I want to have this down.

Edited by Norsehound

The larger number between Characteristic and Skill is the number of dice you get. The smaller number is how many of those dice get upgraded to proficiency dice (the yellow ones).

So in your Coercion 3, Willpower 1 example... yes, you will only have 1 Proficiency in your Coercion dice pools normally until you increase Willpower. That said, most players won't pump many ranks into skills based off Characteristics of 1 until their primary skills are mastered.

But if you were to get say three ranks in Coercion but only have a Willpower of one, you will only ever have one yellow die for your Coercion checks because your willpower is not modified.

Yes, one (the main) reason to spend most of your starting XP on characteristics. Plus, having one amazing characteristic and everything else poor or average means you'll never really be good at anything other than your primary focus.

Could someone give me a clear example?

My understanding up till now was this: The lower number modifies the higher number. So 2 ranks in Ranged (Heavy) will upgrade agility, making 2 yellows and a green when firing a Heavy Blaster.

This is only correct to get YYG if your Agility was 3 (Agility 3 provides 3 Green dice, 2 turn Yellow because of Ranged: Heavy 2). If your Agility was 2, you would roll YY (2 Green from Agility 2 become 2 Yellow from R: Heavy 2). If your Agility is 1, you roll YG (2 Greens from R: Heavy 2, 1 turns Yellow from Agility 1).

By contrast, if you have Agility 3 and zero ranks in Ranged: Heavy, you will roll GGG.

But if you were to get say three ranks in Coercion but only have a Willpower of one, you will only ever have one yellow die for your Coercion checks because your willpower is not modified.

Correct. With Willpower 1/Coercion 3, your pool is YGG: 3 Greens from Coercion 3, and 1 turns into a Yellow from Willpower 1.

However, I guess this isn't the way this works?

No, it is.

I read you modify first (get a green) and then that becomes a yellow on the next upgrade? So that Coercion check becomes two yellows instead?

No, you're doing it wrong here. See above. And also look here .

Edited by Kshatriya

I read you modify first (get a green) and then that becomes a yellow on the next upgrade? So that Coercion check becomes two yellows instead? Doesn't seem as straightforward to me, but I want to have this down.

What you are likley refering to are upgrades that take place after you form your base dice pool. After you form the base dice pool (as explained above) and something triggers you to ubgrade the pool again you would replace a green with a yellow. If all the dice were yellow you would add a green.

For example: Say you have an agility of 3 and 3 ranks of Coordination. Your dice pool would be built by taking three green dice and replacing 3 of them with yellow dice. But the previous character earned a triumph on their last check and spent it by allowing you to upgrade your check. Because of this you get to add a green dice. But the life of one of you friends depends on this check so you decide to flip a destiny point in order to upgrade the dice pool again. That green die is replaced by a yellow die for a total of 4 yellow dice.

Edited by Ryoden

Same thing for purples into reds.

Lets say, I'm trying to flim-flam someone who has three willpower and two in discipline while I have two cunning and four deception. That means I have to roll against his two yellows and one green - two reds and a purple. But wait! He has Nobody's Fool, upgrading that last purple to a red. I flip a destiny point, giving a total a roll of three reds, three yellows and one green - and a whole lot of potential for fun!

Same thing for purples into reds.

Lets say, I'm trying to flim-flam someone who has three willpower and two in discipline while I have two cunning and four deception. That means I have to roll against his two yellows and one green - two reds and a purple. But wait! He has Nobody's Fool, upgrading that last purple to a red. I flip a destiny point, giving a total a roll of three reds, three yellows and one green - and a whole lot of potential for fun!

True - with a caveat;

If the original dice pool is at all red when you first build the dice pool, or you attempt to upgrade the dificulty several times, you do not add a purple die, if the difficulty of the roll is upgraded. The number of difficulty dice you roll does not increase.

Say, in your example, one of the target's buddies had hit you with a jarring insult moments before and spent their triumph to upgrade the difficulty of your next check. That upgrade would bring the difficulty of your roll to three red. Well then the Nobody's Fool tallent would kick in and NOT have any affect.

Well that's wrong

Edited by Ryoden

True - with a caveat;

If the original dice pool is at all red when you first build the dice pool, or you attempt to upgrade the dificulty several times, you do not add a purple die, if the difficulty of the roll is upgraded. The number of difficulty dice you roll does not increase.

Sorry but you are incorrect. I suggest you read CRB p.21 second column the section headed "Upgrading More Dice Than Available" where it clearly explains that if you run out of ability/difficulty dice to upgrade into proficiency/challenge, that a remaining upgrade will add an ability/difficulty die to the pool which can then be upgraded if any upgrades remain. This is repeated until all upgrades are used.

Desslock's provided example is correct.

True - with a caveat;

If the original dice pool is at all red when you first build the dice pool, or you attempt to upgrade the dificulty several times, you do not add a purple die, if the difficulty of the roll is upgraded. The number of difficulty dice you roll does not increase.

Sorry but you are incorrect. I suggest you read CRB p.21 second column the section headed "Upgrading More Dice Than Available" where it clearly explains that if you run out of ability/difficulty dice to upgrade into proficiency/challenge, that a remaining upgrade will add an ability/difficulty die to the pool which can then be upgraded if any upgrades remain. This is repeated until all upgrades are used.

Desslock's provided example is correct.

Well aren't I shamefaced. I just checked and I cant even blame my position on the Beta. Where the heck did I get that from?

Maybe you were thinking of downgrades...if you downgrade everything to purple and still have downgrades left, you don't take away any purples.

Speaking of which, what happens when you have both upgrades and downgrades?

Upgrades first then downgrades. The book specifically says to do this because it could add dice before downgrading them.

So if you started with three yellow / red and had an upgrade and a downgrade to do you would upgrade first (add a green / purple ) then downgrade (turn a yellow / red into a green / purple ) and end up with two yellow / red and two green / purple .

Edited by Ryoden