Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adore the newest sets, I think they've brought back to the game what was well and truly needed, attacks worth playing, although I can't help but wonder whether the games style has changed at all. I say this because I look at attack strings lke the Execution Rites, Wrath Of Heaven, Ivy's poke strings or Rage Of The Dragon after playing a few attacks that go faceup into your momentum, and end up feeling that while all this is well and good, Feline Spike would do the job just as well with just one card, that a well placed BRT or Forethought would wreck your entire strategy, or that a Defender loop is a much safer method of kill even after all these new counters to it. In other words, why play a string of 3 checks in your deck, when the previous strategies allowed you to play less and win more consistently.

My only true complaint now is Feline Spike being infinitely more powerful than any other attack in the game, regardless of the counters to it. I truly believe that if it were made Felicia Only or given the Rolling Storm treatment to make it essentially Felicia Only (Felicia Multiple 2 would be my suggestion), it would enable the card to still be a nice addition to the game, as you would have to play a 6 HS character to play it (as opposed to Chun-Li or Gill etc) who would also increase in popularity, as she isn't especially popular now because the 7 handers are more compatible with the speed of playstyle Feline Spike ensues. It would also stop the following train of thought: "I could play all the Execution Rites, but Feline Spike would shrink the no. of bad checks in my deck and would be just as powerful, if not moreso". And you know Path Of The Master is only going to make this matter worse. You may feel free to disagree with me on this count, I am merely voicing my opinion on the matter.

I guess what I'm looking for is a little reasurance. I've been of the mindset that this set has brought the game up to arguably the best standard it's ever had, although I've had some naysaying players saying that they can't be bothered with the new set and that it doesn't gel very well at all with any previous sets. I'd very much like to say that they are outright wrong, but as I said earlier, a small part of me can't help but agree with them. Perhaps this is just because they are control players, and the new set is extremely aggro-orientated, but I'd like to get some more opinions as to whether the game has actually changed for the better, as it looks as if it has done to me.

Set 12 is a definite step in the right direction, but you're right in that all the overpowered/undercosted stuff from the previous few sets still trumps the new emphasis on aggro.

This is what I've been saying for some time now, this game isn't going to get back to what it was meant to be (i.e. a fighting game, rather than a control-fest) until block 4, once sets 8, 9 and (to a lesser extent) 10 rotate out.

Have you read Astrid? She's the new Feline Spike (except you can actually obtain her if you wanted to).

I still agree with everything you say, and I'd liek to add that no high attack will go unblocked fully until Feline Spike's banned, since you HAVE to play approximately one million high blocks right now. It's why I call high the new mid.

Ok feline spike is one card as opposed to a whole string or whatever...but thats also a disadvantage.

Opponent: Feline spike, check a 6, commit a foundation. Stun 2

Me: Commit red lotus (or torn hero if you are tech lol)

Opponent: Feline spikes E

Me: pass

Opponent: Multiple 2

Me: Negate

No memories stops feline in its tracks. As does evil doer destroyer. Seals. Or you can just try to keep them from getting momentum (unless mignon lol)

Also in ivy you can check a 3 all day long no worries. I love seeing a 1 checked when a spike is played lol.

I have 4 spikes. I dont see myself really running them anymore....

Smazzurco said:

You seriouslby believe that these cards will stop a Spike in the hands of a non-retarded player?

Feline Spike isn't played unless theres no chance of E or R negation, OBVIOUSLY! Just because you don't know how to do that doesn't mean its a problem for anyone else.

I feel one of the best parts about the latest set is that it makes people want to play differently. It makes little difference if they have spikes and BRT's if they want to play a different style. There have been lots of complaints about the game for a long while now, because people were getting bored of it. Now people can play fun decks and do well. Its a psychological thing, more than an immediate effect thing imo.

babelfish666 said:

Don't be too sure about that. So long as Block 3 is still in the meta, you won't really get to see the changes made.

Ok stop this thread right now.

Are we really compairing a 7 diff 1 check attack to stuff that is 3 diff 3? This is not a stong argument.

Sure Fspike is powerful, sure it can actually get the job done and be the only attack in your deck. But it **** well better be, because its a 7 DIFFICULTY 1 CHECK. If it was any less powerful I'm not sure it would even see play at this stage in the game. A card that will lose you the game if checked should get you pretty close to winning the game when played.

We are at the point in the game where you do not need to run a 1 check to win, with the release of this new set. Nightmares attacks brought the game back to 3 checks and combo brough it back to multiple attacks a turn. If you opt to run a one check at this point, its because your ok with taking the risk.

I never meant to say that Feline Spike was the be all and end all, quite the opposite in fact. I'd hate to see that fact, but can you not see why that frame of mind is so easy to jump into for a lot of people? I've seen people discard some of the newer cards in favour of Feline Spike and Defender, even after reading all the counters that have been made for them.

If anything, I'm glad that people are disagreeing with this. It's good to see how people are moving away from it. I do, however think that Feline Spike is still quite clearly more powerful than any other attack, 1 check or no. If people have complained and reviled this card for it's power, while praising and loving it's power for over 3 sets now, there must be SOME truth in it... It's overshadowed almost every attack thats come after it. I'd love to say that there is a more efficient method of kill than either it or Defender, but it's difficult to see. I won't be playing Feline Spike for a while to come now (if it were made Felicia Only, I'd play Felicia in a flash though ), but if I were to go a tournament tomorrow, I would feel like I was putting myself at a small disadvantage by not playing it, which disgusts me a little bit. I'd very much like to be wrong in saying that, though

Protoaddict said:

Air would love to speak with you about their alleged expanded options. Maybe Good and Water would like to join in but they're too busy with other cards.

I'm going to add my say to this, because I feel that quite a few people arguing for spike have missed something slightly key here. (and Fred I don't mean you, I mean people saying it's easily the best way to go in nearly any situation, as seems to be the case with quite a few players). The key fact I would like to point out is that the POTM tournament was not won by a spike deck...it was won by an evil deck that ran a string of attacks to kill you with. Second place, likewise, was not a spike deck.

The two decks defeated in top 4 were (primarily) spike decks.

In top cut there was also a defender loop, another multiple deck, a Hilde Fire deck, and another deck, which (from my recollection) was not spike.

This set got us back to where there are several different ways to achieve victory. This is basically how a card game should function.

zmog so american's are finally falling to the english way and not winning with spike yippy

Wilding said:

I don't mind this. This shows that more symbols have a chance at victory which is good.

What I mind is that those who propose that Spike is okay generally forget one thing : What else do you replace it with? What other options do those symbols have? If there is absolutely nothing else (and I checked, the new set is not friendly to Air, which is good in a sense but I'd have loved something to replace Spike with in certain decks), then the card is still broken.

Good has Ryu's Shin Shoryuken and Lightning Horn at the very least. Air/Water have Arrogance if your name is Alba. Water has a lot of other options.

What about Air? Pretty much nothing. Certain cards can be used for a kill, but honestly, they're not as efficient and as general sweeping as Spike. It's more of a "I could run this card, but why would I want to since Spike exists?" rather than "There is no point to run any other attack than Spike."

I'd just like more options in Spike's symbols is all.

I haven't put a single new card into my Felicia Spike deck that I ran at regionals, and it's lost two games out of almost ten so far against decks with ne wcards. The new sets were great don't get me wrong, unfortunatly they're balanced enough that there are better, more disgustingly broken cards in the previous sets.

B-Rad said:

I've put ONE new card in Remy. Tira's Contract.

Absolutely nothing came out for Air this time around, so I get the sentiment.

Some character specific stuff on air is much better for said character than spike (hoyoko-sen for instance).

I think Air got some stuff in this last set that is amazing compaired to spike, better so with some character more than others, but still amazing. Minuet Dance and Fury of the Ancestors are both better in some cases than spike and roughtly on part with it in others, Dragon lifter is amazing if your playing a kick for the combo (6 high for 8, without needing a 1 check and stun 2), and there are many other utility attacks taht have yet to be fleshed out totally (execution techniques)

Protoaddict said:

Character specific says it. I mentioned Arrogance being better than Spike off Air. Doesn't mean that I'll be playing it any time soon if my deck ain't headed by Alba. This may be the problem in this set though. There's few cards that can be used in other decks (Hope for One's People in Ragnar, for example), but as far as attacks are concerned, are you telling me that, in a non-Tira deck, you would run Menuett Dance instead of Spike? Fury of the Ancients in a non-Zi Mei deck? Both are good in their respective decks. That doesn't mean that they're remotely on the power level of Spike. Lifter is good, but it's not going to kill people. Utility attacks are utility - They do not kill people. Especially not with Air's line-up. Air already had a lot of Utility attacks/cards. Omnidirectional Cluster Bomb could be used as an action that can commit anything on your opponent's board, Rolling Buckler Uppercut cleared itself and gave you a momentum, etc. It did not need more. It needed an alternative to Spike that would have been a side-grade at best, and forced the deck choice. Do I run Spike or this? And if I run both, how will I cope with having 6-8 1 control cards.

Again, the problem is simple : An attack that kills, in Air, that is not named Spike. The closest is Menuett Dance, but it lacks two things provided by Spike - That extra 4 damage and protection against Multiple Discard without using a First F. Fury of the Ancients doesn't even come close to the raw power of the Spike, although it's zones can be changed.

Plus, Fury of the Ancients is better off Chaos/Fire anyway. Mitsurugi much?

Air also has Tiger Fury, but unfortunatly Air given it's current build (and lack of strong good high vitality characters) I cannot see an Air deck lasting long enough against hybrid or pure control in order to make Fury worth it over Spike. Of the cards you listed, I wouldn't use ANY of them over Spike.

Menuette Dance: Is certainly 1 less difficulty than Spike, but doesn't have a block/stun/reversal, no enhance unless you're Tira, and even with Multiple 3 still doesn't do as much damage as Spike. Yes it has +1 to it's control, but my 2 CC slot is filled with Ira Spinta.

Fury of the Ancients: Again is 1 less difficult than Spike, is a multiple 3, but only (if not blocked at all) does 12 damage as opposed to 24 with Spike. Yes you can change the zone of the attack and all it's multiples, but at the cost of 1 foundation a pop, and you're trying to kill the d ude. If it fails, that's up to 4 less foundations you have. Oh again no block/stun/reversal.

Dragon Lifter: Waaaaay easier to play than Spike at only a 4 diff. But that's about the only thing better than it. It doesn't have multiple, it's got an atrocious mid zone block (which granted feeds it's Combo E) AND you have to play a kick attack before it. I don't know about you, but I don't use kick attacks in my Air deck. Even assuming you get the combo E off, it's still only 8 damage. Hardly enough to kill someone.

None of them are reversals though. (outside of Hyoku-sen) The ability to completly screw someones attack step, then be able to tag along on your turn and do it again is kinda nuts. Combined with LoTM, the multiple clearing and the crazy amount of 6 checks available to air, its just to much sometimes.

Anyways, this has all been said before. Taking into acount the amount spike warps the meta and the number of high blocks people are cramming into decks, what ive been doing with my attack base is making sure the majority of my attacks are low zone. Low zone is the new unblockable in a lot of cases. A multiple'd out melodramtic mec is always gone do some damage.

Back in the old days, what did Good or Air have?

Every symbol or deck type will have its flagship card. It's like trying to say that Blue in Magic wouldnt think of something other than Cryptic Command. (The analogy is that it is just usually the best choice for nearly every deck that can run it.)

Just because it is the best option, or usually the best option, does not make the card broken. Broken would mean that, short of divine intervention, it ensures victory. Since this isnt the case, it's just a very powerful attack.

bloodocean said:

Melodramatic Mercurius is what this thread is. You're thinking of Melancholic Mercurius.

Also, thanks for highlighting another reason to play Spike. It's a low block.

if your running spike for its block i would be willign to wager your in trouble. Olcs mentoring is a +0 low with a 6 check, so i dont think your kill attack having a block on it as being very important.

Protoaddict said:

No, but if the argument is : "Low blocks are unblockable." More low blocks = Good.

Besides, with Tag Along, blocking with a kill attack really isn't so much of a problem.

Still haven't seen anything that could reasonably stand to replace Spike in most decks though.

As we are well aware, the problem with Spike is that it has that E. It is, in fact, completely unfair that it is the only good multiple in the game that is completely immune from multiple hate.

Feline Spike being a Reversal is more or less a moot point. While it is true that it can completely disrupt a person's turn, the only time I ever hear of it doing that is when Chunners uses her R.

Fury of the Ancients is only good in a Promo Zi Mei deck or in a Mitsurugi deck, where the damage can be pumped to a respectable level, but still not Spike level.

Personally, I was so happy to see two decks not running Spike make it to the finals of POTM. In the POTM thread, there is a small despair over the thought of Evil winning Worlds for the fourth time. This year would be great if it ended like that. I rather have Evil or any non-spike symbol win the whole thing. Spike winning would just be stale. And, I'm sorry, but most decks running Spike win because of Spike. Kinda like when Happy Holidays was around.

However, I've said all i've needed to say about the card. I don't care what happens to it, since so much time has passed already. However (and I REALLY don't care who it is I'm playing against), let's just say I don't have as great respect for someone beating me with Spike than someone who beats me not using Spike. But then again, what do I know? my best finish in a big tourney ever was 9th.

And Wilding. Spike ensures victory. Quite easily. QUITE.

Hatman. Spike is a staple. You don't replace Staples.